[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[DocMop]

Another try with FAR still negative impressions.

In that case i start thinking that FAR abbreviation means Flip Aerospace Research

Put the center of lift behind the center of mass

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52080-Basic-Aircraft-Design-Explained-Simply-With-Pictures?p=685737#post685737

[Hodo]

I had totally forgotten that FAR recognizes landing gear now. Deployed gear at mach 3, and my 'plane' turns into a cockpit all by its lonesome.

I am sorry that made me LOL... because I have done the samething.

[Vegatoxi]

Have you tried to be gentle with the controls?

'Gentle' means set max. angle of control surface at 1 degree ???

- - - Updated - - -

@Vegatoxi: Yes, that happens with poorly designed rockets that are piloted roughly. Without more information, no one can help you besides telling you that you're doing it wrong, because apparently everyone else can handle it just fine.

Ok, i'll try another time.

And give more info about my isuues.

Additional question: what's is best AoA for control surfaces? Seems default 15 degrees is too much.

[Guest]

@WildLynx: Asking again and again doesn't cause me to fix someone else's code. I know there's the stock bug, we all know there's the stock bug, but continually reporting here doesn't give me the ability to hack into Squad's offices, change their source code, and force a 1.0.5 release to fix it. I'm sorry that I'm not a witchdoctor, I'd like to fix it too so that the issue goes away; I'd [CENSORED] love for it to be an issue in my code rather than stock, because then I could actually fix it, but since it can be reproduced in stock in similar circumstances (small parts connected to multiple larger parts), there's absolutely jack that I can do to fix it.

Seriously, do you think that I'd leave it there if I could actually fix it?!

Ferram, please, I don't ask you to fix anything.

I was only asking to confirm that bug I encountered is the bug you mentioned. It's seems it is.

I will continue to use your great mod in it's current state. And will continue to promote it's use in this forum and elsewhere.

I'm new to 1.x.x (I was using 0.9 for a long time, so I can finish my Eve mission), so what is well known to all the playerbase about 1.x.x bugs is new to me. Sorry.

[Hodo]

'Gentle' means set max. angle of control surface at 1 degree ???

Again, if your CoL is ahead of your CoM or you have a poorly designed aircraft it will fly poorly. Without seeing what you have come up with, we can only guess that the problem lies in the designer/pilot.

And I set my Angle of control limits between 12-15deg for elevators, rudders, and ailerons. And 2-7.5 for canards.

[gilflo]

Ferram

Anyway, thank you for the job ! If the bug is not your's I understand you can't fix it. Let's hope squad will do....

So I play 1.0.4 without FAR and 1.0.2 with FAR. That's all.

[Bosun]

I really enjoy the mod, Ferram! One problem -

Ever since the previous release of FAR, and upgrading to Glaurt, I cannot use stacked batteries (the round ones.) They always explode, no matter where they're stacked, how the vehicle is constructed. I would like to use them, but i'm forced to use the smaller battery packs that can mount radially on parts. The 1k and z-200s in particular have a lot of trouble. They just always explode and disconnect whatever they're attached too. Any insight?

For reference - this doesn't happen without FAR installed. In Stock aero, this problem doesn't present itself. I can use the same craft in stock and it will behave normally. In FAR, that craft, despite having a great flight profile and perfectly nominal design, just seems to explode batteries. Not sure why? I would say overheating, but I have no idea how that's possible.

[ferram4]

@Vegatoxi: Well, assuming that you're launching rockets, the highest amount of deflection you can get from the control surfaces without them stalling is ideal. Then, you stay close to prograde for the entire launch, using control inputs to stay near there. No massive changes in overall vehicle AoA, just a nice gentle pitchover.

If your flipping issues are with planes, then you need to push the wings further back or avoid slamming the controls and stalling it. I do perfectly fine with a keyboard and large control surface deflections, but the trick is to tap the keys lightly.

@WildLynx: Sorry for the outburst. This bug has been reported here a lot and I'm tired of hearing about things I can't fix.

Edit: Really?

@Bosun: Still a stock issue, I don't run the heating system, and it can be reproduced in stock with the correct part combinations.

[Bosun]

Ferram - Hm, ok. I'll try to re create this in stock. Havne't had luck yet. Have there been any community work arounds to it? (Altering cfg files or any such?) I'm going to do a forum search.

[kcs123]

@Bosun

Nansuchao have reported how to workaround of this heating bug. Quite tedious task to do, but only known working solution. You can read about it in this thread couple of pages back. Here is link for his post.

Also edit savegame file each time is not so convinient method and you should probably do it each time you create new craft.

You could already found it if you have folowed link in my previous post.

[ThorBeorn]

@ThorBeorn: Known issue, looking at possible causes. It's something about it being an intake that doesn't bring in IntakeAir.

Thanks! I will let it use IntakeAir instead for now then. BTW I just switched from 0.90 to 1.0.4. and Glauert. Been having so much fun with nuFAR. I also find myself reading more than ever about aerodynamics . Big thank you!

[orost]

Minor quality-of-life suggestion: the roll stability augmentation should disable itself when pitch exceeds 80/-80 (or thereabouts) degrees. If you try to do a loop with it on, as soon as you pass vertical it will violently try to fix the upside-down orientation which will result in spoiled maneuver at best and sudden unplanned disassembly at worst. It's very annoying to have to remember to do it, it's very dangerous to forget to do it, and the option is meaningless at such attitude anyway so it seems like a good change all around.

[ferram4]

@ThorBeorn: Issue seems to be fixed in the dev build, so you can enjoy that if you want.

@orost: Nope, because three reasons:

1. Now, we just push the limit back to 80 degrees, and people are asking for the range to be shrunk further. This doesn't end, especially once we get the people that want to increase the angle range where it is functional.

2. The control system will always do what you tell it to. It won't ever decide for itself to stop working unless you tell it to. SAS doesn't read your mind and auto-shut off any of its systems for the same reason; you're the pilot, you decide what's on and what's not.

3. In reality, you would have to turn off control systems that are intended to handle steady, level flight when going into extreme maneuvers. Same thing should happen with FAR.

[Mekan1k]

ferram4, you are one of the most impressive modders I have met.

However, I have a request-

Can you make a mod that allows us (the player) to invert a control surface without needing to install FAR? I have many mods that don't have FAR configs, and I would like to try to make aeroelastic wings.

Thanks!

[Nansuchao]

I have made some other tests on the heating problem and it's definitely related to the KSP limitation on RAM or single-threaded physics.

The interesting thing is that probably it's exacerbated not only by FAR, but from mods in general. Conflicting mods to be specific. Upgrading your mods and having care that they works properly, usually means less issues.

I copy/pasted my saves on a new pc, upgraded the mods every time is possible, and in more that two weeks I lost just a couple of wings for no apparent reason (it says overheating but clearly it's not).

So, as a suggestion, before reporting this issue with FAR, check your mods and your entire install...

[monstah]

Ferram, you're among the top modders I've seen, and not only in mod quality. I've been reading the past pages just for the kicks, and it's amazing the time you take to answer each question, even when it's the same question over and over.

I'm obviously mad that FAR exacerbates a stock bug, but I'm not giving up on it. It's a hell of a mod, even with the new stock aero. I've only just found out why exactly many modders don't offer support for CKAN installs; a pity, but justifiable. I still use CKAN for its practicity, but at least I know when I'm not getting support, why, and what to do about it (also something I've learned from you).

So, no request, just thanks! I hope you don't ever lose your patience and stop modding, this is serious quality work, with effort put into.

Peace.

P.S.: I see your sig still has a link to NEAR. Is there a point to it now?

[includao]

I just want to thank Ferram for all his work, even with the current difficulties with the stock heating bug. You are one of the most dedicated coders out there.

[Amedee]

Right after launch, I see this in KSP.log:

[EXC 19:02:54.492] IndexOutOfRangeException: Array index is out of range.
     FerramAerospaceResearch.FARPartGeometry.VehicleVoxel.CrossSectionData  (FerramAerospaceResearch.FARPartGeometry.VoxelCrossSection[]  crossSections, Vector3 orientationVector, System.Int32& frontIndex,  System.Int32& backIndex, System.Double& sectionThickness,  System.Double& maxCrossSectionArea)
    FerramAerospaceResearch.FARAeroComponents.VehicleAerodynamics.CalculateVesselAeroProperties ()
    FerramAerospaceResearch.FARAeroComponents.VehicleAerodynamics.CreateVoxel ()
    UnityEngine.Debug:LogException(Exception)
    FerramAerospaceResearch.FARThreading.ThreadSafeDebugLogger:Update()

This in Player.log:

(Filename: /home/builduser/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/LinuxStandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)

IndexOutOfRangeException: Array index is out of range.
  at FerramAerospaceResearch.FARPartGeometry.VehicleVoxel.CrossSectionData (FerramAerospaceResearch.FARPartGeometry.VoxelCrossSection[] crossSections, Vector3 orientationVector, System.Int32& frontIndex, System.Int32& backIndex, System.Double& sectionThickness, System.Double& maxCrossSectionArea) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at FerramAerospaceResearch.FARAeroComponents.VehicleAerodynamics.CalculateVesselAeroProperties () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at FerramAerospaceResearch.FARAeroComponents.VehicleAerodynamics.CreateVoxel () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
UnityEngine.Debug:Internal_LogException(Exception, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:LogException(Exception)
FerramAerospaceResearch.FARThreading.ThreadSafeDebugLogger:Update()

(Filename:  Line: 4294967295)

Doesn't seem good, and my craft explodes 2 minutes after launch, at a staging event.

[Gryphon]

Right after launch, I see this in KSP.log:

This in Player.log:

Doesn't seem good, and my craft explodes 2 minutes after launch, at a staging event.

If you want help with the problem you are experiencing, I'd suggest:

1) make sure you are installing FAR manually (not via CKAN)

2) Follow the instructions listed here to get the information folks will need to help you with your problem.

[MugWanaBe]

Hi Ferram I need help with the fasa atlas launcher on lift off things go well but at about 100ms does a flip and lays on its side. I know this has been addressed but I have no clue how to do anything listed in post #2352 if you could explain it would help a lot.

Thanks

[ThorBeorn]

@ThorBeorn: Issue seems to be fixed in the dev build, so you can enjoy that if you want.

@ferram4: Yep, I played one hour yesterday. Didn't run into any problems with the electric engine at all. Thanks, good fix!

[ferram4]

@Amedee: Need reproduction steps and craft file, along with full list of all mods. If any of this involves CKAN though, I can't help you; CKAN is known to cause installation issues with FAR and possibly other mods, so there's no support for CKAN users here.

@MugWanaBee: Perhaps you would be better served by not paying attention to anything for ancient versions of FAR. Seriously, that's from nearly 2 years ago and everything has changed since. You are running KSP 1.0.4 and FAR v0.15.4, right? You're not running KSP 0.22 with FAR v0.11, right? If you're on the most recent versions, stop looking at ancient stuff; this is like looking for Win7 fixes by rummaging through Win95 support tickets.

Flight with the Atlas, like all rockets, relies on active control to maintain stability. It's shaped like any other rocket you'd have, so you should be perfectly fine so long as you stick to prograde and keep SAS on you will be fine.

[Gigeran]

Had a crash and via the log files I could retrace it to be related to far and deadly reentry (probably), the crash is a null pointer reference in setting the label for heat or construction strength.

The way I tested it is using the stock learstar a1, setting all engines to fire from the start and just letting it overheat then tear itself apart during flight using shock heating and windshear (labels showing, ship breaking apart) (quite flat trajectory) then while it is being torn apart go back to the rocket assembly. Most times I need to make sure both heating and structural weakness is showing while the craft breaks apart and go back to the assembly building and the error appears and crashes ksp. (to make it easier for it to break open the top most cargo door during flight)

(Tried without deadly reentry and it still happened, seems deadly reentry and far use same calls without nullpointer check for fetching the label and setting the status to it, also tried by pressing f10 to hide the labels, but it still crashed doing this same error call)

So far love both Deadly reentry and far and keep up the good work !

Seen these two now pop up just using windshear to obliterate a ship :

KeyNotFoundException: The given key was not present in the dictionary.

at System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary`2[Part,FerramAerospaceResearch.FARPartGeometry.PartTransformInfo].get_Item (.Part key) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at FerramAerospaceResearch.FARAeroComponents.FARAeroSection..ctor (.FloatCurve xForcePressureAoA0, .FloatCurve xForcePressureAoA180, .FloatCurve xForceSkinFriction, Single potentialFlowNormalForce, Single viscCrossflowDrag, Single diameter, Single flatnessRatio, Single hypersonicMomentForward, Single hypersonicMomentBackward, Vector3 centroidWorldSpace, Vector3 xRefVectorWorldSpace, Vector3 nRefVectorWorldSpace, Matrix4x4 vesselToWorldMatrix, Vector3 vehicleMainAxis, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 moduleList, System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary`2 sideAreaValues, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 dragFactor, System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary`2 partWorldToLocalMatrixDict) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at FerramAerospaceResearch.FARAeroComponents.VehicleAerodynamics.CalculateVesselAeroProperties () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at FerramAerospaceResearch.FARAeroComponents.VehicleAerodynamics.CreateVoxel () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

UnityEngine.Debug:Internal_LogException(Exception, Object)

UnityEngine.Debug:LogException(Exception)

FerramAerospaceResearch.FARThreading.ThreadSafeDebugLogger:Update()

(This error looks similar to the label one only that one adds 1 line more to set a label, but happens as well in fixedupdate)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at FerramAerospaceResearch.FARAeroComponents.FARAeroPartModule.UpdateVelocityAndAngVelocity (Vector3 frameVel) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at FerramAerospaceResearch.FARAeroComponents.FARVesselAero.CalculateAndApplyVesselAeroProperties () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at FerramAerospaceResearch.FARAeroComponents.FARVesselAero.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

It seems ksp gives a wrong list of parts or somesuch during disintegration of a ship due to heat shock or windshear or lists allready destroyed parts in it hence these errors.

I do run a lot of mods normally but no ckan and these crashes seem to only happen even when caught by exception handling if I have far and/or deadly reentry installed.

Mod list :

- MKS + Karbonite (removed the expandotubes as they can crash stuff)

- Near Future (electric, engine, spacecraft, solar, construction)

- TAC (life support, fuel balancer, self destruct) (removed extra cans and such as via tweakscale I can recreate them)

- Infernal Robotics

- Kerbal alarm clock

- Novapunch (removed freya, thor and odin, fairings and some couplers)

- Better buoyancy

- Dark multiplayer (but tests where done in single player sandbox mode)

- Dmagic orbital science

- KAS/KIS

- Mechjeb

- Active Texture Management (Agressive)

- Universal storage

- Tweakscale (Nothing tweaked on the learstar a1)

- Scansat

- Chatterer

- Realchute

Plus I do remove certain parts from mods to free up more memory so the crash is not due to not enough memory.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Gigeran

[Amedee]

1) make sure you are installing FAR manually (not via CKAN)

Ok I will do that first and all the rest later.

[steve_v]

While I completely understand Ferrams stance on CKAN, after a bit of wrangling with it there's only one major issue I can see: CKAN doesn't clean up old files or directories properly (specifically when files are created after install), which can confuse ModuleManager horribly.

So make sure you completely remove mod directories on uninstall/reinstall - manually.

If you're having issues with a CKAN installed FAR, wander over to the appropriate thread. I'm seeing far less than the expected traffic volumes over there.

Also, be aware that you may still experience issues even with a manual FAR install - if you have other mods that were installed/uninstalled via CKAN.

Your best bet for getting in on the support racket here is to reproduce your issues in a simple stock+FAR install, no CKAN in sight.