[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[NathanKell]

You can safely keep it.

[BazilYat]

So, it says if I get 'XU' in the red, I've angered the Kraken and should file a bug report. I appear to have angled the Kraken. That, or I've cocked up my B-52-alike's aerodynamics horribly. Please help, either way!

https://gyazo.com/bf3470116f438664779777b3ec6373d9

[ZobrAA]

do you have a list of the mods? just wondering. on another note, how would one go about installing the full realchutes along with FAR? just remove the realchutes lite that comes packaged with FAR, or keep it?

Well if you not scared by hundreds of mods here you go: https://docs.google.com/document/d/174BoJ7CvZlx0mzcQcTzm1oupltSr5aU2ciFVJlfisDw

About RealShutes - no need to remove anything in FAR folder, all should work from the box.

Edited September 15, 2015 by ZobrAA

[SshockK]

i just need to know if this makes the game harder and if this makes B9 Aerospace works properly in 1.0.4

[CaptainMoustache]

I've had no love in the procedural wings thread, so maybe someone here can help me. I'm having an issue while using procedural wings with far. The aircraft all fly crooked in level flight, all banked a few degrees to the left. When I turn on aerodynamic forces, there's a distinct and strong diagonal lift force from the root of the left wing only. It angles up and to the right of the aircraft at a 45 degree angle. Upwards lift on both wings is as it should be. This is a fairly fresh install of kerbal with rss, rp-0, far, etc and this only happens with procedural wings. There aren't any hidden surfaces causing this lift component as it happens even with a very basic, fresh design and few parts. Both FAR and procedural wings are completely up to date. Help is appreciated!

[cantab]

CaptainMoustache, since you mention RSS and RP-0, did you let CKAN install FAR? If so then either ask in the "FAR via CKAN" thread, or make a fresh install with only Procedural Wings and FAR both installed manually and see if the problem still occurs.

@Crzyrndm: So for pWings, it needs to voxelize both colliders and meshes?

Dammit, right after I made sure that when meshes and colliders are voxelized separately to deal with the AJ10 Lack made for RO. So the solution right now is to either break compatibility with that, continue to break compatibility with thick pWings, or add some extra convoluted thing to handle both that will just make this even MORE complicated.

Just to throw out an idea, could this be something that could be handed off to parts mod developers? Perhaps have FAR support an option in part configs that specifies how to handle voxelizing that part?

[CaptainMoustache]

CaptainMoustache, since you mention RSS and RP-0, did you let CKAN install FAR? If so then either ask in the "FAR via CKAN" thread, or make a fresh install with only Procedural Wings and FAR both installed manually and see if the problem still occurs.

Oops! I didn't realize there's a separate support thread for ckan installs. Thanks!

[deadok]

Hi.

Configuration: KSP(32-bit running at win10 64) + FAR 0.15.5.1 + B9 Aerospace PP 040.

New sandbox game, SPH.

Plane: MK1 Cockpit + 2.5m to Mk2 Adapter + pair of default B9-PW procedural wing, attached to adapter symmetrically.

Hit "calculate stability derivatives"->

[LOG 14:13:28.602] Cl needed: 0.219553213250486, AoA: [U][B]8.93616890452798[/B][/U], Cl: 0.219555753150062, Cd: 0.0585985597428482

Save plane, load plane, immediately calculate derivatives multiple times:

[LOG 14:13:36.807] Cl needed: 0.219553213250486, AoA: [U][B]8.32275683624796[/B][/U], Cl: 0.219553847216515, Cd: 0.0554604062202605
[LOG 14:13:36.851] [U][B]Voxelization Time[/B][/U] (ms): 133
[LOG 14:13:37.574] Cl needed: 0.219553213250486, AoA: [U][B]8.93616904241133[/B][/U], Cl: 0.219555753364412, Cd: 0.0585985622304511

Apparently voxelization is done in async way and FAR UI allows user to do calculations even if voxel data is not yet ready?!

Anyways, "Alt-F4", restart KSP, load game, SPH.

Load saved plane, immediately calculate derivatives multiple times:

[LOG 14:34:33.574] Cl needed: 0.250963117554013, AoA: [U][B]5.19214418803282[/B][/U], Cl: 0.250968271573626, Cd: 0.0336926737031383
[LOG 14:34:33.721] Cl needed: 0.219553213250486, AoA: [U][B]5.19817097502654[/B][/U], Cl: 0.21955771119412, Cd: 0.0307685545714892
[LOG 14:34:34.748] Updating 1
[LOG 14:34:34.798] Voxelization Time (ms): 49
[LOG 14:34:35.055] Cl needed: 0.219553213250486, AoA: [U][B]5.51811751012141[/B][/U], Cl: 0.2195573244047, Cd: 0.0285063247681396

Welp!

Loading plane 2-nd time seems to bring back 8.3-8.9 AoA values:

[LOG 14:34:45.979] Cl needed: 0.219553213250486, AoA: [U][B]8.32275683624796[/B][/U], Cl: 0.219553847216515, Cd: 0.0554604062202605
[LOG 14:34:46.008] Updating 1
[LOG 14:34:46.058] Voxelization Time (ms): 50
[LOG 14:34:46.163] Cl needed: 0.219553213250486, AoA: [U][B]8.93616904251385[/B][/U], Cl: 0.219555753359357, Cd: 0.0585985621999771

logs + craft file: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9jPuSLpZVo8dmU3ZnVEVEVPZzA

[ferram4]

Yes, if you somehow manage to rush to open the FAR GUI, switch to the Stab Deriv tab, and rush to press the button, you can theoretically beat the voxelization. Except if it actually returned a value, that means that voxelization actually occurred, so nothing went wrong there.

It doesn't look like the issue is with FAR, it looks like it's some weird order-of-operations thing involving pWings. Ideally, it will be gone when the wing overhaul happens, so any time spent diagnosing it will delay replacing the entire model anyway.

[Guest]

Ferram could you add thrust vectoring control per axis like the control surfaces basically but for engines so that only pitching is active for instance.

That's especially important with engines like the RAPIER where rolling is quite bad.

[deadok]

It doesn't look like the issue is with FAR, it looks like it's some weird order-of-operations thing involving pWings

Well, i made clean install:

KSP + FAR

- New sandbox, SPH

- Cabin mk1 + pair of b-connector wings

- Before save:

[LOG 20:11:06.280] Voxelization Time (ms): 67
[LOG 20:11:16.797] Cl needed: 0.130488829177597, AoA: 2.28828447824715, Cl: 0.130514192591468, Cd: 0.0186283935005181

- After loading:

[LOG 20:11:23.913] Voxelization Time (ms): 56
[LOG 20:11:25.785] Cl needed: 0.130488829177597, AoA: 3.17814395663417, Cl: 0.130466199670826, Cd: 0.0198681006903475

restarted KSP

- first two loads: AoA: 2.01231720141793

- third load: AoA: 3.17814395663417

[FreeThinker]

I'm getting the following exception when I start on the runway with a KSPI-E nuclear ramjet and latest version of FAR installed:

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    FerramAerospaceResearch.FARGUI.FARFlightGUI.PhysicsCalcs.CalculateEngineAndIntakeBasedParameters (Double vesselSpeed)
    FerramAerospaceResearch.FARGUI.FARFlightGUI.PhysicsCalcs.UpdatePhysicsParameters ()
    FerramAerospaceResearch.FARGUI.FARFlightGUI.FlightGUI.FixedUpdate ()

something appears to be going wrong at CalculateEngineAndIntakeBasedParameters

Somehow, FAR goes crazy, resulting in a black screen

Edit. The bug does no appear when I remove the build in air intake. Seems like FAR does not like it when an engine and intake are on the same part

Edited September 19, 2015 by FreeThinker

[ferram4]

@deadok: Well, then it's still in the old wing code, and it isn't going to be fixed until the entire overhaul. Nothing I can do.

@FreeThinker: Those two issues are obviously unrelated, since the error that you've posted has no effect on physics, it's only calculating it for the purposes of the GUI, hence it being in FARGUI. Now, the next question is how things are going wrong; the intake and engine both run on IntakeAir like all the other stock atmospheric parts, correct?

[FreeThinker]

@FreeThinker: Those two issues are obviously unrelated, since the error that you've posted has no effect on physics, it's only calculating it for the purposes of the GUI, hence it being in FARGUI. Now, the next question is how things are going wrong; the intake and engine both run on IntakeAir like all the other stock atmospheric parts, correct?

Not exactly. KSPI ads a AtmosphereIntake at startup which produces IntakeAtm resource. The engine can use any number of propellants, which could be IntakeAtm but not IntakeAir

[Mein_Gott]

Hello

I have a question - can I utilize only certain parts of FAR? meaning: control surfaces tweakables. Id love to have access to tweaking parameters of control surfaces and their responsiveness (usually we dont need as much rudder/ailerons displacement as there is by default), but current stock aerodynamics will perfectly do for me.

Maybe there are certain files that need to be kept in order for this to be achived?

thanks

[blowfish]

I'm sure someone could figure out how to make that work in stock aero, but there's no way to pull just that functionality out of FAR, sorry.

[kizza42]

Been out of this for a while, Does FAR's new Aerodynamics methods also have an effect on the Center of Lift marker in the hanger. I seem to have real trouble getting the CoL to move rearwards even with a stack of wings towards the back of my planes these days. Mainly using the B9 Proc wings.

Edited September 21, 2015 by kizza42

[Autochton]

Been out of this for a while, Does FAR's new Aerodynamics methods also have an effect on the Center of Lift marker in the hanger. I seem to have real trouble getting the CoL to move rearwards even with a stack of wings towards the back of my planes these days. Mainly using the B9 Proc wings.

Yeah, the COL indicator is... largely a curiosity in FAR these days. You'll want to use the stability derivatives and the like to get an idea of how your plane will fly.

[broomish01]

For the love of god can the WIN64 blocker be removed and just strap big pink warning letters to it! Some of us have no issues with the 64 version and unlimited mods and the game looking great is heaven but its all for naught without FAR

[technicalfool]

For the love of god can the WIN64 blocker be removed and just strap big pink warning letters to it! Some of us have no issues with the 64 version and unlimited mods and the game looking great is heaven but its all for naught without FAR

Not going to happen, and no amount of pleading is going to make it happen. Sorry. Ferram's made that quite clear in numerous previous posts on the subject.

We'll see what happens as and when an official Win64 KSP gets released.

[cantab]

How to get stable 64-bit KSP, with FAR and all the mods you can shake a stick at.

[broomish01]

Well thats alot easier than the last thing I tried. Do the mods require a seperate linux release?

[cantab]

Well thats alot easier than the last thing I tried. Do the mods require a seperate linux release?

Virtually all mods work the same on all operating systems. (The only exception I know is Advanced Fly-By-Wire, a mod for improved joystick support.)

[technicalfool]

Well thats alot easier than the last thing I tried. Do the mods require a seperate linux release?

In general, no. The vast majority of mods either contain just asset packs and ModuleManager configs, or are made with the same cross-platform Mono/Unity3D setup that KSP is made with. There's a very few special cases that need binaries compiling from source for each supported platform, but the only one I can think of off-hand (eggrobin's Principia mod for N-body physics) is still experimental and is made deliberately annoying to get hold of (it means hanging around on an IRC channel until one of the operators spots you and relays a link).

I would caution against casually installing another OS though. Reason one being that it's very possible to leave the computer unbootable. If you want to keep anything on your computer or have the option to boot into Windows as well (which I can guess you probably will, for all the stuff that doesn't run in Linux), it means setting up a partition or two on your hard drive as reserved space for Linux and all its programs. Not the sort of thing to do unless you really really want to, and not really a discussion for this thread.

You should be able to find some decent help browsing the support subforums for Linux threads if you decide to go for it and run into issues.

[broomish01]

Oh ive already got the dual boot set up, just getting to grips with linux now. I've never used it before and its a bit of an investment of time to learn from the looks of it but it seems pretty interesting, appreciate the warning tho and the information