[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[Hunne]

they are? wait a sec...what the...little green heads shall roll for this...

so, one issue fixed, what about the breaking up? wings should be added to the fuselage or one wing to fuselage and other wingparts on the fuselage-connected wing?

 

 

edit: nope, does not work...

Edited February 5, 2016 by Hunne

[tetryds]

@Hunne You said you are going "way past mach 1" before you even take off and you don't expect your wings to get ripped off?

Go easy on the throttle, aircraft wings are not indestructible.

You can tweak their weight resistance factor if you right click them on the editor, that can help but they get really heavy, and it does not do miracles.

Build lighter airplanes with more wings, that will help.

If you want more design advices and things like that please go to the official FAR craft repository: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/121176-Official-FAR-Craft-Repository

But no, it's not a bug, everything is working just fine as it should

[Flashblade]

@Hunne you are turning to hard while going to fast. That can very easily happen when you use keyboard controls, heck it happened enough times to me although I use a joystick. There is a simple solution however. Look up the mod Dynamic Deflection by Cryzrndm. It will limit your deflection by dynamic pressure. With that mod installed I have been unable to break my plane apart through turning.

[Hunne]

21 hours ago, tetryds said:

@Hunne You said you are going "way past mach 1" before you even take off and you don't expect your wings to get ripped off?

Go easy on the throttle, aircraft wings are not indestructible.

You can tweak their weight resistance factor if you right click them on the editor, that can help but they get really heavy, and it does not do miracles.

Build lighter airplanes with more wings, that will help.

If you want more design advices and things like that please go to the official FAR craft repository: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/121176-Official-FAR-Craft-Repository

But no, it's not a bug, everything is working just fine as it should

hehehe just saying, it does not matter if I go slow or not, just keeps breaking up... no matter how well aligned all the CoM/CoT bubbles are, match ´em, put ´em behind or in front of each other, build X-1 or U-2 style contraptions, won´t take off or instantly break up

also the statistics window in the hangar shows exactly....nothing, I highly doubt that this is intended

 

@flashblade: I´ve been trying to limit pitch etc. but that did not help at all, if I ever find that mod using the search I´ll give it a try^^

[kcs123]

Post some images of craft design along with AoA sweep FAR graphs and possibly stability derivatives to get better advice. But not here, post it in  http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/121176-Official-FAR-Craft-Repository  thread, like you are already adviced. Slightly more wing surface area, better placement of main wings, carefully placed landing gears can be a big difference in craft handling behaviour.

[steve_v]

35 minutes ago, Hunne said:

the statistics window in the hangar shows exactly....nothing

If the FAR analysis windows are blank, this sounds a little suspicious. But as the saying goes: Pics (and logs) or it didn't happen.
Unless you can show clear evidence of a bug, reproduce it with a minimal mod setup and include all the relevant info, everyone is going to assume design issues and direct you to the craft repo thread.
Claiming "bug" or "not intended behaviour" without the info needed to diagnose just wastes time.

Listen to tetryds & kcs123, much knowledge they have .

[Hunne]

seems some of the installation was messed up for some reason, after putting all the stuff together again it works...sort of... just did a flight halfway to the northpole...all went well...until  

at least Valentina and the data survived, turning on FAR helpers in midflight was not the smartest idea after all, but retroboosters and chutes was^^

[Polaras]

I do not know if this is an editor bug or an actual drag bug.  If this is normal, please accept my apology.

I noticed I was getting a negative wave drag on a vessel I was building.  After attempting to reproduce it in a clean, manually modded KSP install with just FAR 15.5.5, Flight integrator, and Module Manager, I was able to isolate the observed issue to these reproduction steps.

Start a new sandbox and enter the SPH.

Construct a simple craft featuring nose cones.  For some reason, craft with flat noes are less susceptible.

Add radially attached tanks along the main fuselage. 

Notice the extremely low, as low as negative, wave drag depending on where the side tanks are placed.

 

 

[ferram4]

The craft files would be nice so that I can actually reproduce the issue.  Otherwise I'm going to have a lot of difficulty recreating the issue.

Edit: Nvm, I reproduced it.  I don't know why I bothered delaying a release so people could test it if they couldn't test something this simple.  I thought it was going to be much more difficult to cause than it was.

Edited February 7, 2016 by ferram4

[Polaras]

3 hours ago, ferram4 said:

The craft files would be nice so that I can actually reproduce the issue.  Otherwise I'm going to have a lot of difficulty recreating the issue.

 

Edit: Ok, Thank you.  I'm happy you found it.  Sorry, I am an infrequent player but to appreciate the realism your work enables.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Polaras

[bonenfan5ben]

Hello

I am having trouble installing this mod. I am running the steam version of ksp on my mac. Every time I try to install the mod, I get an error at the menu screen saying:

"FAR has been installed incorrectly and will not function properly. Incorrect Path(s): GameData/FAR_0_15_5_5Hugoniot/GameData/FerramAerospaceResearch/Plugins/FerramAerospaceResearch.dll"

I even tried a clean install of ksp and am still getting this error. All I did to try to install FAR was drag the unzipped folder into the gamedata folder.

I'm really at a loss for what to do. I don't know if I'm installing FAR incorrectly or if it isn't compatible with macs. I've heard great things about FAR and any help to get this working would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

[Elthy]

You posted the problem yourself:

Quote

GameData/FAR_0_15_5_5Hugoniot/GameData/FerramAerospaceResearch/Plugins/FerramAerospaceResearch.dll

Place the Folder "FerramAerospaceResearch" in your normal GameData folder.

[ss8913]

On 2/3/2016 at 9:15 PM, NathanKell said:

Recall that thrust varies with Isp. Do all your engines have the same fraction of their Kerbin thrust at Eve? My guess would be some do and some don't, imbalancing things.

Using TCA.  thrust isn't a problem, it's just.. attitude control that's a problem.

[ss8913]

Also noticing that the FAR window position and airspeed preferences are no longer saved - every launch I have to change it from surface m/s to EAS indicated.  Who uses surface m/s in an aircraft anyway?  Can ask ATC for a courtesy ground speed, but... you need indicated airspeed to know if you're stalling or not... anyway, if it could be preserved, that's great.  Also, every launch, I need to re-open and move the FAR window, it defaults to top-left.

[m4ti140]

@ferram4, what does rootMidChordOffsetFromOrig setting do? It is not described in documentation.

[ferram4]

@ss8913: That's very strange, especially considering there's nothing that should cause that to break.  I'll have to look into that then.

@m4ti140: Exactly what it says.  Offsets the location of the mid-chord of the wing root from the part origin, since the original FAR wing code assumes that the wing origin is at the mid-chord of the wing root.

[ferram4]

And now FAR v0.15.5.6 "Jacobs" has been released, fixing more negative drag errors, the saving/loading flight data errors, and fixing a longstanding issue with IAS being really, really off at higher Mach numbers.  It's much, much more useful now, though it's still of questionable use at high Mach numbers and higher altitudes where EAS is still better.

Also, a note on the wikipedia link on Eastman Jacobs: though it claims that his work on laminar flow airfoils led to the NACA 4-digit series used on the P-51, this is incorrect.  The NACA 4-digit airfoils were not actually optimized airfoils in any sense and were purely geometric shapes based on the variations on the contemporary Clark Y (in wide use at the time) and Göttingen 318 (one of many being tested at the University of Göttingen).  Ultimately, the 4-digit airfoils were not at all laminar flow airfoils at all.

Laminar airflow airfoils weren't available until the 1-,2-,3-,4-,5-, and 6-series airfoils (distinctively different from the 4-digit/5-digit airfoils) were developed.  The 1-series (of which only the details for the 16-xxx airfoils are available) achieved some laminar flow properties as a side-effect of its main goal, which was to reduce pressure spikes for use on propellers.  Of the later series of airfoils, all but the 6-series have been lost to time, but we do know that on the P-51 modes 4-series airfoils were used, later switching to 6-series airfoils for the P-51H.  I suspect the wikipedia error is due to someone seeing a reference to the NACA 4-series airfoils and without any data on the 4-series themselves ended up mistaking those for the 4-[digit-series] airfoils, which are several years older.

Anyway, pedant mode over, enjoy your bugfixes, and remember not to completely trust everything on wikipedia, because they're often wrong and it's difficult to fix such things when data starts getting lost to time.

[Surefoot]

Joy Off to test my hypersonic designs again, to feel the changes in sonic drag calculations...

[m4ti140]

@ferram4 This post actually made me curious - is the wing overhaul going to feature airfoil selection? What airfoil does FAR currently assume?

 

 

 

[Bookstore44]

This is sort of a repeat of a post I made on October 25th 2015. I came back to KSP to see if anything changed.

Every plane I make pitches down upon stalling, and all the stock FAR planes pitch down as well. This is seen in the drop in the yellow Cm line corresponding to the drop in blue Cl line at around 30 degrees, and seen in the way my planes are yanked back when they get too far off center. The planes which don't show a sudden pitch down upon stalling, seem to just have their wings farther back so that they already feel a pitch down force. Offsetting the wings forward causes the plane to be pitch-neutral until the stall, where it suddenly pitches down. Is this a real phenomenon? Is this a bug?

I'm trying to make my planes do spins and snap rolls with no success, and I feel that this pitch down force is related to my lack of success. The planes lose control, but never in a stable spin like you would see at an air show. I haven't seen anyone else attempt or succeed at this (not counting engine-induced spins). Are spins possible in Ferram Aerospace Research?

I am using KSP 1.0.5 Linux 64 bit and FAR Jacobs 0.15.5.6 with no other mods installed aside from the bundled moduleflightintegrator and modulemanager.

 

 

[tetryds]

@Bookstore44 https://www.dropbox.com/s/cjb7n8xokq0wsy2/PowerRoll.MP4?dl=0
Yes it is possible, yes what you are experiencing is normal, it's a design thing.
Stalling is not yet perfect, but for a few reasons, this may change on the future.
But since there is no huge problem with the mod, you should share your design so that we can discuss and improve it here: 

 

[FourGreenFields]

Ok, was meant to be a bug report about negative wave drag, but updating fixed (RIP Kerbalstuff).

However I just noticed: The craft which previously had negative wave drag, still has a much lower calculated Cd (both in hangar, and in flight) than another craft of mine, and the same engine. Yet, it only reaches Mach 1.4 with the Panther's afterburner, while the other passes Mach 1.9 without it.

Is there something I'm missing (yes, calculated for the correct speed and alt), or is this a bug?

Edited February 16, 2016 by FourGreenFields

[Rodhern]

I think I stumbled upon a minor bug. I take a perfect disc as for instance the Z-200 battery and places it (as the only part) in the SPH with the thin edge facing forward and the flat sides facing left and right. When I click "Sweep AoA" the program freezes up.

[the_machemer]

Hi

I'm getting this bug that causes phantom control inputs (not phantom forces) while out of atmosphere. These inputs aren't from trim or my joystick as they aren't limited to just one control axis and they go back and forth with no rhyme or reason, sending the craft into random gyrations. Turning on SAS generally smooths things out but it too is affected as it oscillates and has a hard time zeroing in on vectors. I've seen two threads about this problem and both pinned it down to FAR's flight assistance, but the best solution they could offer was to make a clean install and then being careful to never touch flight assistance. 

I was wondering if anyone here has had experience with this bug and knows how to fix it without having to delete yet another save game. I've played 375+ hours across 4 career modes and have only managed to send a total of 2 craft beyond kerbin's SOI as my saves keep getting killed by something or other before i ever get very far. If somebody can get me out of this one, I would be eternally grateful.

Thanks in advance

[ferram4]

@FourGreenFields: Different planes, different reference areas, different zero lift drag for the same zero lift drag coefficient, different required lift coefficients for level flight, different induced drag.  Makes sense.

@Rodhern: I'll look into it.

@the_machemer: There is no bug.  You just have to turn the flight assistance off.  It's going to do what you tell it to do, unfortunately mind reading is not something I can code.  Everyone having problems needs to stop forgetting that they left the flight assistance on.