[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[AlyxMS]

I don't know if anyone's experiencing this.

The flap on the left side always produces a larger lift than the one on the right side. Making the plane to roll to the right.

Is this a glitch or am I building my plane wrong?

I have replaced the procedural wing control surfaces with B9 control surfaces, and the same thing still happens.

So I guess it is not a glitch from Pwing.

[Volt]

I had this problem in a very early 0.14 devbuild, on my supersonic fighter-bomber. Thought it was just me. Extending and retracting the flaps appeared to randomly increase or decrease differential lift.

[Cassonator]

Hi ferram

I've also been having the same lack of lift problem.. Perfectly reasonable, balanced plane appears to have almost zero lift from the wings (on mobile at the minute so no pics). I'm 100% is not a build problem as I've been making space planes a long time. Was using the same type of designs in .24. Seems to be the current build is the problem, and is the same issue weather using b9, procedural wings or stock. Any ideas?

[AlyxMS]

Hi ferram

I've also been having the same lack of lift problem.. Perfectly reasonable, balanced plane appears to have almost zero lift from the wings (on mobile at the minute so no pics). I'm 100% is not a build problem as I've been making space planes a long time. Was using the same type of designs in .24. Seems to be the current build is the problem, and is the same issue weather using b9, procedural wings or stock. Any ideas?

Are you mounting your wing directly on a cargo bay?

If that's true FAR might recognize your wing as it is inside the cargo bay so it won't provide lift or drag.

[Cassonator]

No, straight on to a fuel tank.

[m4v]

CoP doesn't look right in a symmetrical vessel.

Messing the with goo canisters long enough eventually fixes it, so my guess is that is some property that unity is falling to copy when the part is cloned during symmetry, either because it isn't public or lacks the [serializeField] thing.

Likely just an editor issue that doesn't affect flight.

Edited October 20, 2014 by m4v

[Climberfx]

M4v, that is not the CoP, is the CoL (CoP is Center of propulsion, and you are showing us in the pic only the CoL and the CoM (Center of Lift and Center of Mass).

But if you are referring to Center of Lift, CoL, i get the same here and i think that is only a mistake in the representation, because my builds work right.

[m4v]

M4v, that is not the CoP, is the CoL (CoP is Center of propulsion, and you are showing us in the pic only the CoL and the CoM (Center of Lift and Center of Mass).

I was calling it Center of Pressure, since I think is the proper term for the Center of Lift in this place, yes?

But if you are referring to Center of Lift, CoL, i get the same here and i think that is only a mistake in the representation, because my builds work right.

Yes, is just a problem with the marker.

[Wanderfound]

Hi ferram

I've also been having the same lack of lift problem.. Perfectly reasonable, balanced plane appears to have almost zero lift from the wings (on mobile at the minute so no pics). I'm 100% is not a build problem as I've been making space planes a long time. Was using the same type of designs in .24. Seems to be the current build is the problem, and is the same issue weather using b9, procedural wings or stock. Any ideas?

Stock FAR wings in 25 have hugely increased in strength but also increased in weight. Build a small to medium ship, use the right click tweakables to wind the wing mass down to 0.5 and see if that works.

Huge-winged things are still possible, but you need to pull mass down to 0.25 or so and cope with the relative fragility.

[SpaceCars]

I've been trying to get the PackRat rover delivery system to work with FAR by renaming the fairings so that the title includes "fairing". FAR correctly detects the fairings, but nothing inside is shielded. I'm guessing that this is a problem with the PackRat models and the FAR code that calculates if parts fall within the fairing bounds. Has anyone had any experience with these parts and gotten them to work with FAR?

EDIT: Reinstalling the latest version of FAR helped solve problems for all other fairings I used, but not the PackRat ones.

Edited October 20, 2014 by SpaceCars

[Cassonator]

Stock FAR wings in 25 have hugely increased in strength but also increased in weight. Build a small to medium ship, use the right click tweakables to wind the wing mass down to 0.5 and see if that works.

Huge-winged things are still possible, but you need to pull mass down to 0.25 or so and cope with the relative fragility.

Didn't look into that, I'll give it a try tonight and see if it makes a difference, thanks for the advice :-)

[endl]

hey ferram and wonderfound i just wanted to thank you guys with helping me learn far and answering my questions all of over the boards you guys are everywhere i have no words for how amazing you guys are and how much design concepts ive learned just trying to fix all my problems

i finally finished fine tuning my plane and man did i run into so many things that caused issues, i had to angle my engines down so that they wouldnt thrust into the rear elevators this of course caused COT to be misaligned from COM and caused massive instability during orbital burn, i fixed this by slapping on some fuel tanks on the bottom, i wish there were some more options for radial fuel tanks since i wanted to have a cargo bay. it still looks more or less okay though. anyway here is my plane i hope you like it and thanks again.

got it to 100k orbit with a decent amount of fuel left, wish i could rebalance it to have more fuel and less monoporp but the parts i have to balance are all big chunks of storage. after all is said and done its so hard for me to get a well balanced plane with more then 1 TWR and i mean significantly more like 1.5+

Edited October 20, 2014 by endl

[NathanKell]

AlyxMS etc, that is a problem with PWings not talking correctly with FAR 14.3, which has now been fixed Pwings-side. Please get 0.9.1.

[ferram4]

There are some wing interaction issues that will still need working out. Some of my optimizations caused unintended behavior, and that's what a lot of people are seeing with uneven lift. Dev build should fix it, but the main thing I'm waiting on is someone on Linux who was getting the insta-vehicle destroy to test it and see if it works.

[Sopa_de_Kerbollo]

Hi! Have turbojets been nerfed again? I can't make more than 3.5 mach with them (1100 m/s) then their thrust reduces to zero almost instantly... Idk if it's a feature of FAR in 0.25 or a bug, cause i didn't have problems making 5.5 mach in 0.24.2 and AFAIK efficiency of turbojets last till 1800 m/s but maybe this have been changed. I have tried climberfx plane on the last page and same results.... Turbojets just don't work past mach 3.5...

[LMA]

Since latest version My planes have started skidding sideways and the aircraft rolling onto its back. It's as if my aircraft have no tail. I use Procedural wing and B9 5 both latest versions. If I put a huge tail on vertical it cures it.

[Hodo]

Since latest version My planes have started skidding sideways and the aircraft rolling onto its back. It's as if my aircraft have no tail. I use Procedural wing and B9 5 both latest versions. If I put a huge tail on vertical it cures it.

Do you mean they are side slipping in flight or sitting on the runway?

If it is in flight and you are going with a tailess design, then that is pretty normal if your thrust gets out of alignment just a bit. The B-2 uses some minor thrust variations to control the yaw and side slip of the aircraft inflight. You may have to do the samething.

Do you have a picture of the craft?

[Hyomoto]

Since latest version My planes have started skidding sideways and the aircraft rolling onto its back. It's as if my aircraft have no tail. I use Procedural wing and B9 5 both latest versions. If I put a huge tail on vertical it cures it.

I just downloaded the pWing update, I can confirm I had issues with pWings. The latest FAR patch 14.3.1 does not work correctly with pWings 0.9. I do not know if it will work with 0.9.1 since I haven't tried them out yet, but I experienced a very frustrating series of takeoffs before I isolated it. You can try updating pWings or using FAR 14.3 and see if that fixes it then you have your answer.

[Wanderfound]

Hi! Have turbojets been nerfed again? I can't make more than 3.5 mach with them (1100 m/s) then their thrust reduces to zero almost instantly... Idk if it's a feature of FAR in 0.25 or a bug, cause i didn't have problems making 5.5 mach in 0.24.2 and AFAIK efficiency of turbojets last till 1800 m/s but maybe this have been changed. I have tried climberfx plane on the last page and same results.... Turbojets just don't work past mach 3.5...

Working fine for me: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/95562-fastest-jet-in-ksp?p=1486399&viewfull=1#post1486399

[steve_v]

Turbojets just don't work past mach 3.5...

You have B9 installed, yes?

FAR nerfs stock turbojets to ~mach 5.5

IIRC B9 nerfs stock turbojets again - to ~mach 3.5, 'cause otherwise they're better than the B9 jets...

File in question: B9_Aerospace-Squad_Jet_Balance.cfg. Remove it if you don't like it

[Sopa_de_Kerbollo]

You have B9 installed, yes?

FAR nerfs stock turbojets to ~mach 5.5

IIRC B9 nerfs stock turbojets again - to ~mach 3.5, 'cause otherwise they're better than the B9 jets...

File in question: B9_Aerospace-Squad_Jet_Balance.cfg. Remove it if you don't like it

Thanks. Didn't know B9 was doing this. Lol, I was using Sabre and Rapier engines to make supersonic jets... I'm all for realism but that didn't gave me much variety to make SSTO jets...

[ABZB]

FAR has been throwing the following:

DMFlightData: System.Reflection.TargetException: Non-static field requires a target

at System.Reflection.MonoField.GetValue (System.Object obj) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at DMFlightData.UpdateFARData () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at DMFlightData.LateUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

within a minute or so after takeoff, my center of mass suddenly migrates to behind my vessel. then the vessel spins uncontrollably and every part disconnects from every other part or explodes

[Master Tao]

@ABZB:

That looks like an exception from DaMichel's Flight Data. Do you have that installed?

[ABZB]

yes... you are right.

EDIT: ...

I'm an idiot - I assumed I had updated it since KSP didn't complain. On checking my download history, it is apparent that I never downloaded the new version.

I have to thank you for directing my attention in the correct direction.

Edited October 21, 2014 by ABZB

[NathanKell]

Well, sounds like Flight Data needs to be updated then (I assume that's DaMichel's Flight Data mod?)

EDIT: Ninja'd by the Master.