[1.12.x] SystemHeat - a replacement for the CoreHeat system (November 20)

[Nertea]

 

[Rakete]

8 minutes ago, Nertea said:

 

Here is my log: https://www.filemail.com/d/folqxpqiktfojin

 

There are no buttons for fuel transfer of uranium if I open the PAW of reactor and storage, as you can see in the screenshots.

Normal fuel transfer works with opening both PAWs and click on in or out. But they are not there.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Rakete

[Nertea]

Weird ask: Can you try setting your localization to English and transferring? (and log of this too please). I wonder if there's this stupid KSP bug cropping up again..

[Rakete]

1 minute ago, Nertea said:

Weird ask: Can you try setting your localization to English and transferring? (and log of this too please). I wonder if there's this stupid KSP bug cropping up again..

Stupid question: How do I do that?

 

[Nertea]

Just now, Rakete said:

Stupid question: How do I do that?

 

I am not sure, actually :P. Don't have KSP in front of me, maybe in steam settings for the game?

[Rakete]

5 hours ago, Nertea said:

I am not sure, actually :P. Don't have KSP in front of me, maybe in steam settings for the game?

I'll try.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Rakete

[Nertea]

You can select old steam versions in the 'beta's tab of the game properties

[Rakete]

I installed the english version. Now the buttons are there... So it's the localization. Is it repairable in a future version of SH / NF Electrical?

@Nertea

Edited July 9, 2021 by Rakete

[Rakete]

5 hours ago, Nertea said:

You can select old steam versions in the 'beta's tab of the game properties

I installed the english version. Now the buttons are there... So it's the localization. Is it repairable in a future version of SH / NF Electrical?

@Nertea

 

here is the log of the english localization: https://www.filemail.com/d/xoalfuoeyrwjrwn

Edited July 9, 2021 by Rakete

[Nertea]

Of course I'll work on fixing it. It's just not going to be soon, I have a ton of other things going on. 

[Rakete]

I understand this. Can you implement a fix for the upcoming 1.12 actualization of SH or is this too much work ?  This means I have to stickt to the english version as the localization is borked. Alright for now.

I would be really pleased, if you could add this fix to your backlog.

Can you please signalize here in the forum, as soon as a fix is available, so that I can switch back to the german version, when it's fixed? Just give a ping then, please. Hopefully not tooo far away... :-)

 

Anyways, thanks for all your efforts in making KSP a whole better game. I really wonder how you as a single person can create so much cool mods... It's great.

 

Also: If you need some german translations, just contact me. As a german native speaker, I may help you providing some nice catchy translations - as long as you don't request them to be written into configs (Just PM me the english original texts, and I'll give you a matching german translation if needed via PM back).

Edited July 9, 2021 by Rakete

[Nertea]

A fix will come with the next version, don't worry about that. It will be at least 3 weeks off because i'm going on vacation for a week and I have a lot of other mods to fix for 1.12 first. 

[Rakete]

1 minute ago, Nertea said:

A fix will come with the next version, don't worry about that. It will be at least 3 weeks off because i'm going on vacation for a week and I have a lot of other mods to fix for 1.12 first. 

No problem. As you said "not that soon" I expected months... 3 to 5 weeks is very fast.

So have a great vacation! When you come to upgrading System heat, you may also have a look on my reported bugs on the page 20 of this thread. They are just meant to be a help - not a complaint. (Yeah, i'm used to testing stuff a bit more deeply. Even on my RL job I currently write testcase catalogues in the R&D of cars.)

Funfact: Your mods have become "must haves" for me. So without them, I won't upgrade to 1.12. It shows, what a great job you did with your mods!

 

Sidequestion: What does the uranium container do, that kerbals can put in their inventory? Is this a future feature?

[Nertea]

Yeah I've seen the other things, I will be looking into them too. 

2 minutes ago, Rakete said:

Sidequestion: What does the uranium container do, that kerbals can put in their inventory? Is this a future feature?

It was the old new mechanic, where you had to have a kerbal load up the container and take it down to the reactor to refill it. It was not fun, maybe cool to do once or twice, but really just busy clicky work. Canister will be removed sometime, or repurposed for something else. 

[Rakete]

1 minute ago, Nertea said:

It was not fun, maybe cool to do once or twice, but really just busy clicky work.

Exactly my thoughts, as I saw this part. I  thought: "Please, noo... not doing EVA all day long to refill a big reactor".  Your actual solution is best for player enjoyment.

[Spaceman.Spiff]

25 minutes ago, Nertea said:

i'm going on vacation

Have a nice vacation! You deserve a break! 

[Rakete]

Bug Report: (between minor and medium) Some heat generation/rejection combinations cause wild oszillations in the SH simulation algorithm.

Sorry, that it's me again, who finds a little bug. But I think, you'd like to know about it:

 

Some combinations of heat generation and rejection result in wildly flickering values in the temperature approximation. Seems like an iteration oscillation. Here's a setup, where it happend (don't mind the ugly setup, it's just to reproduce the issue with as few parts as possible). As screenshot shows a snapshot of one valueset while wildly oscillating green & orange with unplausible values.

After moving the vehicle to launchpad and back to VAB oszillation stops and plausible values of 900K are stable. Also: playing with the simulation rate stops oscillation. Maybe some divergence/oscillation detection in the iterative algorithm may help in a future release with switch to another simulation rate if oscillation happens. (Yeah, sometimes iterative algorithms tend to refuse nice convergence, 'cause they are nasty sometimes ). Btw: Thanks for the simulation rate slider. It really helps in those cases.

On the real vehicle on the launchpad the simulation is sufficiently slow (small stepsize),  so that I did not see any wild oscillations yet.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Rakete

[SkW3rL]

I feel stupid for even having to ask the question, because typically, I can figure things out on my own. With that being said, I am at a loss when attempting to create a loop for the LV-N Nerv engine.

In the parts menu, RMB "Core Heat" shows the following:

Fission Reactor requires 1100Kw of cooling, with optimal at 3K, core damage at >3.4K, and core meltdown at 3.8K, as shown here ("Temperature Parameters" in green text): 

Then further down, engine heat has different parameters ("Thermal Parameters" in orange text):  Heat Output at 200kW, outlet temperature at 800K, and maximum temperature at 1400K.

Clicking the teal "i" icon, I am shown the Nerv engine shows the following information: 

And in the toolbar menu, I am shown the following:

I apologize if there is a better way to ask or present my issues and I hope that this makes sense. Basically, I am struggling to create an effective loop for the Nerv engines, and any help would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully I'm just reading this all wrong and someone can point me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance!

[modus]

You should check the wiki (link in op).

[SkW3rL]

16 hours ago, modus said:

You should check the wiki (link in op).

Appreciate the reply, but I have and this is why I have posted here. I know it will be something simple, something I have missed. I didn't post any pics of adding radiators, but I tried adding some, of varying capabilities, and nothing helped. It's hard to plan for the amount of cooling needed when no information is provided to assist in the mitigation of heat. 

I am not a person that typically asks for help and am typically very capable of figuring things out on my own. I am very technical and follow things to a tee (to a fault). This is why I believe it to be an oversight on my part.

[Rakete]

10 hours ago, SkW3rL said:

Appreciate the reply, but I have and this is why I have posted here. I know it will be something simple, something I have missed. I didn't post any pics of adding radiators, but I tried adding some, of varying capabilities, and nothing helped. It's hard to plan for the amount of cooling needed when no information is provided to assist in the mitigation of heat. 

I am not a person that typically asks for help and am typically very capable of figuring things out on my own. I am very technical and follow things to a tee (to a fault). This is why I believe it to be an oversight on my part.

I would interpret it like this:

The engine produces 1,1 MW heat @3000K with reactor activated and throttle 0

It cools the 1,1 MW away if throttle is at 100% but generates 200kW (fixed or scaled with throttle?) as soon as the engine is running.

 

I guess, the waste heat of the module is calculated something like this: 

(100% - throttle %) *1,1 MW + 200kW * throttle %.... Just a guess. Maybe the output temp. scales down linear from 3000K to 800K (lowering the effiency of graphene radiators of HC, which love 1350K +×) while throtteling up. I haven't got KSP in front of me right now, so you have to try it by yourself. My last test with these SH-patched NTR have shown, that they heat up quickly if you switch on the reactor without having the throttle up, as the throttle cools the engine. Difficult to handle for precise burns without burning up the core... otherwise you need big amounts of radiator surfaces.

My recommendation: build a test rig on the launch pad and let us know... that's how i figured out most of the SH mechanics for myself.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Rakete

[Nertea]

@SkW3rL I'm very away from my computer but you're using legacy nfe fission engine components with system heat, they won't work correctly together.

[SkW3rL]

Thanks @Rakete, I'll test some different things out.

49 minutes ago, Nertea said:

@SkW3rL I'm very away from my computer but you're using legacy nfe fission engine components with system heat, they won't work correctly together.

What do you recommend in lieu of the legacy components?

[Nertea]

2 hours ago, SkW3rL said:

Thanks @Rakete, I'll test some different things out.

What do you recommend in lieu of the legacy components?

I can't recommend anything, the current implementation in SH for the nuclear engines will be changed soon.

[SkW3rL]

31 minutes ago, Nertea said:

I can't recommend anything, the current implementation in SH for the nuclear engines will be changed soon.

Thanks for the reply while you are out on vacation. Honestly didn't expect you to answer and feel honored that you did. I enjoy your mods and look forward to what new things you will bring!