[1.12.x] SystemHeat - a replacement for the CoreHeat system (September 1)

[Nertea]

System Heat 0.5.2

• Updated ModuleManager to 4.2.1
• Fixed NTR configs not removing stock heat generation from all engine mode
• Ion engine configs now also remove all excess heat generation
• Fixed System Temperature PAW field actually displaying loop temperature
• System Temperature PAW field is now hidden if system flux <= 0 kW as it is meaningless
• Fixed loop integrator to handle cases with producers that are off better

[Rakete]

32 minutes ago, Nertea said:

System Heat 0.5.2

• Updated ModuleManager to 4.2.1
• Fixed NTR configs not removing stock heat generation from all engine mode
• Ion engine configs now also remove all excess heat generation
• Fixed System Temperature PAW field actually displaying loop temperature
• System Temperature PAW field is now hidden if system flux <= 0 kW as it is meaningless
• Fixed loop integrator to handle cases with producers that are off better

Thanks for the deployment.

 

Heat Exchanger bug seems to be fixed, but now the Converters do not show correct loop temp anymore in the PAW:

See here: Compare loop 0 temp in vulcan-smelter PAW and SH tool loop info. I haven't tested with all converts, but the big stock ISRU shows same behavior. So the red highlighted bugfix broke something. The converters, which i used for test, have shown static temperature of 500/500K, respectively 600K/600K right in the second, they were turned on.

The temperature in the SH tool (right hand sided) is the correct one (in this picture i shut down the exchanger for verification of the Exchanger bug and the Loop 0 temp shoots up as expected, as loop 0 on the testrig has not heat sinks).

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Rakete

[Nertea]

18 minutes ago, Rakete said:

Thanks for the deployment.

 

Heat Exchanger bug seems to be fixed, but now the Converters do not show correct loop temp anymore in the PAW:

See here: Compare loop 0 temp in vulcan-smelter PAW and SH tool loop info. I haven't tested with all converts, but the big stock ISRU shows same behavior. So the red highlighted bugfix broke something. The converters, which i used for test, have shown static temperature of 500/500K, respectively 600K/600K right in the second, they were turned on.

The temperature in the SH tool (right hand sided) is the correct one (in this picture i shut down the exchanger for verification of the Exchanger bug and the Loop 0 temp shoots up as expected, as loop 0 on the testrig has not heat sinks).

 

 

 

Nope, that's right. That isn't loop temp, that's system temp, it's now correctly labeled. 

Maybe another UI field is needed but that's working as intended.

[Rakete]

@Nertea

On the topic of the missing Part info window informations of waste heat as reported here:

 

As tested for the eel: They are now there, but inconsistent to the PAW: See here:

Partdescription says 10kW, PAW shows 8kW. On running vessel 8kW seems right, so the PAW info is the correct one, not the partinfobox information.

 

Same on the poseidon: Part description: 1000kW, PAW: 900kW

Same on the neptune: Part description: 100kW, PAW: 80kW

Same on the scylla: Part description: 110kW, PAW: 85kW

The other KA-engines seem to be alright.

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Nertea said:

Nope, that's right. That isn't loop temp, that's system temp, it's now correctly labeled. 

Maybe another UI field is needed but that's working as intended.

Okay, didn't expect this. So the system temperature means what? Is it a useful information, as I'd guess only the loop temperature matters?

Edited August 11, 2021 by Rakete

[Nertea]

12 minutes ago, Rakete said:

On the topic of the missing Part info window informations of waste heat as reported here:

Okay, didn't expect this. So the system temperature means what?

System temperature is the... system temperature. The temperature the part generates heat at. 

12 minutes ago, Rakete said:

Same on the poseidon: Part description: 1000kW, PAW: 900kW

Same on the neptune: Part description: 100kW, PAW: 80kW

Same on the scylla: Part description: 110kW, PAW: 85kW

Hm. This might be wrong on all the nuclear reactors then too. 

-edit: nope, just my screwup.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Nertea

[Rakete]

23 minutes ago, Nertea said:

Hm. This might be wrong on all the nuclear reactors then too. 

Haven't had time to check all the other SH-using engines e.g. from FFT for this issue, too. If something like this catches my eye in those engines, I'll report that as well - but not today... It's evening on this side of the ocean and time to get some rest :-)

No reason to force a bugfix soon, cause it's just a minor issue, if you know where to look things up :-)

 

Rule#1: The SH-Tool gives the answer . In fact, it's sooooo much better than the stock heat system.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Rakete

[Nertea]

22 minutes ago, Rakete said:

Haven't had time to check all the other SH-using engines e.g. from FFT for this issue, too. If something like this catches my eye in those engines, I'll report that as well - but not today... It's evening on this side of the ocean and time to get some rest :-)

No worries, it should be fixed in 0.5.3.

• Fixed ModuleFissionEngine displaying total heat instead of waste heat in part info
• Changed display of temperatures in PAW

 

[Rakete]

1 hour ago, Nertea said:

• Fixed ModuleFissionEngine displaying total heat instead of waste heat in part info
• Changed display of temperatures in PAW

Will check tomorrow or so, unless it's gardening time after end of business.  (if my wife sends me to the lawn mower...)

 

For interest: Whats the difference between waste heat and total heat SH-wise? I thought the waste heat is the heat I will have to compensate by radiators. So total heat is...  Waste heat plus power turned into electricity?

 

Did you just switch to lightspeed in terms of bugfixing? This is crazy, how fast you fix stuff. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Rakete

[Nertea]

14 minutes ago, Rakete said:

For interest: Whats the difference between waste heat and total heat SH-wise? I thought the waste heat is the heat I will have to compensate by radiators. So total heat is...  Waste heat plus power turned into electricity?

Yeah pretty much. It's not important, it's just internal!

14 minutes ago, Rakete said:

Did you just switch to lightspeed in terms of bugfixing. This is crazy, how fast you fix stuff. 

Well I happened to be working on it and if I only change a small thing it's very easy to cut a release using the automation tools I have  

[panarchist]

23 hours ago, Nertea said:

Well I happened to be working on it and if I only change a small thing it's very easy to cut a release using the automation tools I have  

And that right there is the difference between coders who mod and coders who mod and do actual Enterprise-level coding professionally (with the attendant tools). Speaking as someone who has only ever dabbled in coding but supports coders and/or translates requirements between Engineering and Customer Service, I'd love to see your setup.

[Brigadier]

1 hour ago, panarchist said:

And that right there is the difference between coders who mod and coders who mod and do actual Enterprise-level coding professionally (with the attendant tools). Speaking as someone who has only ever dabbled in coding but supports coders and/or translates requirements between Engineering and Customer Service, I'd love to see your setup.

Have you ever watched LinuxGuruGamer coding on his Twitch stream?  He'd probably be more than willing to describe his setup should you ask, and he manages 250+ mods.

[Nertea]

1 hour ago, panarchist said:

And that right there is the difference between coders who mod and coders who mod and do actual Enterprise-level coding professionally (with the attendant tools). Speaking as someone who has only ever dabbled in coding but supports coders and/or translates requirements between Engineering and Customer Service, I'd love to see your setup.

Everything is pretty much open on my repos. Common scripts are here and are pulled when needed. I use GitHub actions to automate the actioning of the scripts. Some of the scripts are backed by AWS services (S3, SSM, EC2) for simplicity. I can package and deploy a mod version to Spacedock, Curseforge and Github in about 2 clicks :). Writing the update forum post takes the longest. 

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Nertea

[Starseeker]

Apologies if this has been asked before, but will crew-containing parts end up producing heat from this mod (thus requiring stations to have heat-rejection capacity)? Or is that beyond its scope?

[Tabris]

Has anyone made a USI patch yet?

[TBenz]

On 8/13/2021 at 5:18 PM, Starseeker said:

Apologies if this has been asked before, but will crew-containing parts end up producing heat from this mod (thus requiring stations to have heat-rejection capacity)? Or is that beyond its scope?

I believe this came up before, and if I recall correctly, the answer was 'out of scope'.

On 8/13/2021 at 6:59 PM, Tabris said:

Has anyone made a USI patch yet?

Due to the way USI and SystemHeat both handle converters, compatibility between the two requires significantly more than just a patch. Nobody has tackled that issue yet, as far as I am aware.

[Rakete]

@Nertea Something of what I'm not sure if it's a bug or a feature.

 

Bug Report - Type: Calculations, Severity: Minor

While doing some overheating/damaging experiments with the KA-Engines (Jebediah just wanted to know, if they explode if cooked up to 2000K), it came up, that the Liberator engine ignores the Shutdown-Temp-Setting if set greater than 1400K.

Here a reproduceable testcase: Static firetest on Launchpad. No cooling devices in the loop. Set Shutdowntemp to 2000K. Liberatorengine will shutdown already at 1400K Looptemp. 1400K does not show anywhere up in part description.

Same for emancipator. Further engines were not tested for this behavior. I guess, it's the same with all KA-Engines.

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Rakete

[Starseeker]

On 8/14/2021 at 7:14 PM, TBenz said:

I believe this came up before, and if I recall correctly, the answer was 'out of scope'.

Ah, gotcha. Well, good opportunity for me to possibly try my hand at making some MM patches to do that!

[Starwaster]

@Nertea question, can this handle very low temperatures such as cryogenic?

[Cochies]

This is strange. Where can I find configs for the latest SystemHeat for NFElectrical ?
I had an old config, but it doesn't work with new SystemHeat

[AtomicRocketBooster]

5 hours ago, Starwaster said:

question, can this handle very low temperatures such as cryogenic?

This is a very fun idea! Give the cryo-tanks some operating temp of 20K (for LH2 - obviously higher for others) + some built-in cooling functionality (perhaps implemented using the existing radiator functionality but with some very low temps) and having boil off be some function of the loop temperature.

Maybe even have a "refrigerator" part for when the built-in isn't enough

Enables things like super low-power outer-planets missions, requiring you to load up on refrigerators if you want to use hydrolox on eve, and other fun design constraints

[Rakete]

21 minutes ago, AtomicRocketBooster said:

This is a very fun idea! Give the cryo-tanks some operating temp of 20K (for LH2 - obviously higher for others) + some built-in cooling functionality (perhaps implemented using the existing radiator functionality but with some very low temps) and having boil off be some function of the loop temperature.

Maybe even have a "refrigerator" part for when the built-in isn't enough

Enables things like super low-power outer-planets missions, requiring you to load up on refrigerators if you want to use hydrolox on eve, and other fun design constraints

Naaaah... meeehh... somehow i'm not convinced of this idea. Even more parts outweight the already inplace de-buff of the CryoEngines due to bigger tank size and need for electric charge. Don't overdo complexity Keep in mind the partcount for the guys and girls on weaker computers.

36 minutes ago, Cochies said:

This is strange. Where can I find configs for the latest SystemHeat for NFElectrical ?
I had an old config, but it doesn't work with new SystemHeat

https://github.com/post-kerbin-mining-corporation/SystemHeat/releases

Newest package, Extras folder: FissionReactors

Edited August 16, 2021 by Rakete

[Cochies]

1 hour ago, Rakete said:

 

https://github.com/post-kerbin-mining-corporation/SystemHeat/releases

Newest package, Extras folder: FissionReactors

Wow. Thanks.
I wonder what was going on in my head that prevented me from discovering it.

SystemHeat works strangely.
The module was applied to the reactor.
I see the value of the heat flow.
But in flight, heat is not generated. Flow power - Nan
What could be the reason?

Edited August 16, 2021 by Cochies

[Nertea]

On 8/15/2021 at 1:12 PM, Rakete said:

@Nertea Something of what I'm not sure if it's a bug or a feature.

 

Bug Report - Type: Calculations, Severity: Minor

While doing some overheating/damaging experiments with the KA-Engines (Jebediah just wanted to know, if they explode if cooked up to 2000K), it came up, that the Liberator engine ignores the Shutdown-Temp-Setting if set greater than 1400K.

Here a reproduceable testcase: Static firetest on Launchpad. No cooling devices in the loop. Set Shutdowntemp to 2000K. Liberatorengine will shutdown already at 1400K Looptemp. 1400K does not show anywhere up in part description.

Same for emancipator. Further engines were not tested for this behavior. I guess, it's the same with all KA-Engines.

 

This is easily fixed, the 'reactor' has an adjustable auto-shutdown but the engine does not. The engine has a fixed value. However when looking at the configs it appears I need to revise the outlet temperatures so I'll do that too. 

6 hours ago, Starwaster said:

@Nertea question, can this handle very low temperatures such as cryogenic?

Yes, anything above 0K...

54 minutes ago, Cochies said:

Wow. Thanks.
I wonder what was going on in my head that prevented me from discovering it.

SystemHeat works strangely.
The module was applied to the reactor.
I see the value of the heat flow.
But in flight, heat is not generated. Flow power - Nan
What could be the reason?

Some screenshots would be nice to help figure out what's wrong/

[Brigadier]

8 minutes ago, Nertea said:

Yes, anything above 0K...

And why wouldn't it .  I mean, absolute zero is pretty absolute so it seems somewhat axiomatic but you never know in KSP.

Thanks for all the work you must be putting into these mods.

[Nertea]

On 8/14/2021 at 7:14 PM, TBenz said:

Due to the way USI and SystemHeat both handle converters, compatibility between the two requires significantly more than just a patch. Nobody has tackled that issue yet, as far as I am aware.

Nope - it's doable with just patching as of 0.7.0

On 8/13/2021 at 5:18 PM, Starseeker said:

Apologies if this has been asked before, but will crew-containing parts end up producing heat from this mod (thus requiring stations to have heat-rejection capacity)? Or is that beyond its scope?

That is a thing for some other mod :).