How do you think you will make colonies in KSP2 and launch pads and will you automatically get in sandbox?

[Jurassic kerbal]

Will you automatically get colonies and launch pads in sandbox I really curious? I honestly don’t know?

[AlamoVampire]

Colonies? Not sure. Will need to see what comes stock. It depends on the quality of career/adventure mode. 
 

033606232020

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, Jurassic kerbal said:

Will you automatically get colonies and launch pads in sandbox I really curious? I honestly don’t know?

It's a serious question, where to stop in removing feature from the "sandbox" mode to make it feel "sandbox" enough?

Because we can all agree that removing gravity it's too much and leaving in the tech tree is too little but where should they draw the line?

In an early interview Nate mentioned something about wanting to have a sandbox mode without spoiling the big late-game things

 

Personally I would suggest a player to open the game, make a Mün mission with KSP1 parts just to get the feel of the game if you really need it and then close the sandbox and give the progression/adventure/career a try, don't use KSP1's career mode as an example to decide to play Sandbox in KSP2, from the interviews with Nate we can see how they're putting way more effort into progression than the "barely a placeholder" system of KSP1.

[shdwlrd]

4 hours ago, Master39 said:

In an early interview Nate mentioned something about wanting to have a sandbox mode without spoiling the big late-game things

I took that as the other solar systems would be hidden and you would discover them before traveling to them. But that's my opinion. 

I'm under the opinion that colonies would be available in sandbox. 

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, shdwlrd said:

I'm under the opinion that colonies would be available in sandbox. 

Point is: what you mean by available?

 

From what I understood from the various bits of information we'll have 3 tipes of bases/station:

- KSP1 Style: you build the whole thing in the KSC's VAB, you put it on top of a rocket and you send it to your destination, you expand the base/station with other monolithic modules rocked together.

- The Martian style: you send "kits", your Kerbals assemble the thing in place, perfect and realistic for bases, you build the thing in the VAB and then put the subassembly into a kontainer (lots of them in the trailer) and send the container.

- Colonial style: you use the available resources (either mined or shipped from somewhere else) to build new modules directly in place possibly without ever having to use the KSC at all (colony launched mission).

 

How the sandbox mode is supposed to interact with this?

Also, the colonies grow with "boom events" unlocking new capabilities that can be built to advance, how is this interacting with the sandbox mode?

In KSP 1 sandbox mode doesn't give you infinite fuel just because you have a IRSU on your craft, the same reasoning applied to KSP2 could mean that the sandbox mode only applies to the things directly launched from the KSC and that after you build the first colony the game would be the same as progression mode.

 

There are some non obvious game design choices to make here and I think this is what they were talking about.

[shdwlrd]

1 hour ago, Master39 said:

Point is: what you mean by available?

The items you will need is available to use. 

As for the rest of your statement, using KSP1 as a guide, I would have to guess that you would have to use the items the same way as you would in the "adventure" mode of the game.

So if you want, sending the items to where you want them, gathering whatever resources you need, and building them. Or not and use the cheat/debug menu to place them where you want and using infinite resources to build them immediately.

For the Kerbals manning them, I can't say. Maybe you will have to ship them there? A slider for the population after the colony built? An automatic transfer of kerbals button? But in sandbox kerbals are free, so who knows.

PS, Yes, I'm purposely being vague about the actual items. We don't know enough about the game items to say what will be in the game.

Edited June 23, 2020 by shdwlrd
spelling

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, shdwlrd said:

PS, Yes, I'm purposely being vague about the actual items. We don't know enough about the game items to say what will be in the game.

The problem is that the core experience of KSP is the sandbox mode, we have a clear idea of what sandbox is because everything else was strapped on later as an optional feature.

Science, career, contracts but also reentry heat, commnet all afterthoughts build upon the original "sandbox mode".

KSP2 seems to (obviously) be the contrary, they're designing the "adventure" mode to be the best possible interlocking all the systems and features together, the question at this point is only natural, what defines the sandbox mode?

Is it a mere cheat menu? It's the absence of funds or technological progression? How the colonial progression should be treated in sandbox?

I don't think the answer is obvious but if I were to speculate I would bet that they're going to make sandbox into KSP's equivalent of Minecraft's creative mode, with cheat easily available and a set of tools to easily test and mess around with crafts and building designs.

[shdwlrd]

51 minutes ago, Master39 said:

The problem is that the core experience of KSP is the sandbox mode, we have a clear idea of what sandbox is because everything else was strapped on later as an optional feature.

Science, career, contracts but also reentry heat, commnet all afterthoughts build upon the original "sandbox mode".

KSP2 seems to (obviously) be the contrary, they're designing the "adventure" mode to be the best possible interlocking all the systems and features together, the question at this point is only natural, what defines the sandbox mode?

Is it a mere cheat menu? It's the absence of funds or technological progression? How the colonial progression should be treated in sandbox?

I don't think the answer is obvious but if I were to speculate I would bet that they're going to make sandbox into KSP's equivalent of Minecraft's creative mode, with cheat easily available and a set of tools to easily test and mess around with crafts and building designs.

I can't understand how sandbox being implemented is an issue. As long as you have all parts available, and the normal progression systems are either bypassed or limited, how it's done is moot.

 

[Guest]

Have they even confirmed sandbox mode?

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, shdwlrd said:

I can't understand how sandbox being implemented is an issue.

I'm not saying that sandbox is an issue or that I don't want sandbox mode, I'm saying that there are some non obvious choices when implementing it that can radically change what sandbox is going to be.

1 hour ago, shdwlrd said:

As long as you have all parts available, and the normal progression systems are either bypassed or limited

This is not obvious.

In KSP1 all parts are created in the KSC VAB, remove funds, science and you have the sandbox, there is no doubt of what sandbox is.

With KSP2 that's not possible because the KSC will only be the starting point.  

I'm don't think I'm proposing some absurd limit to the players creativity if I say that probably that skyscraper big ship with an engine bigger than the VAB on its own is made of parts only available at an orbital shipyard.

How should sandbox work with those? Make it possible to spawn them from the KSC only in sandbox just for fun? Putting a "standard shipyard" in orbit of Kerbin for orbital ships? That "free" orbital shipyard should need to be supplied with resources and a crew to work?

Maybe you can spawn everything on the KSC pads, for the joy of those who want to build a giant trebuchet out of colonial VABs (no problem with that) or maybe the colonial progression (from base/station to colony/shipyard) will not be treated like funds or science but more like gravity or reentry heat and be present in the sandbox just like in progression or maybe without cheats you only unlock in sandbox parts that you've unlocked in the "adventure" mode.

I don't know, all those options sounds equally "sandbox" to me, I wouldn't have problem with any of them.

[shdwlrd]

2 hours ago, Master39 said:

How should sandbox work with those? Make it possible to spawn them from the KSC only in sandbox just for fun? Putting a "standard shipyard" in orbit of Kerbin for orbital ships? That "free" orbital shipyard should need to be supplied with resources and a crew to work?

Your guess is as good as mine. 

I would think that you would be able to switch editors and launch spots on the fly. So you could build the skyscraper sized ship in the orbital vab and launch it on the pad for grins. Or build a space plane in the sph and have it spawn in orbit somewhere around kerbin if an orbital colony isn't available. (Lat/Lon of 0, Alt of 80,000m. Basically the same way the set orbit does now without having to use the debug menu.)

Again, that is just a guess.

3 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

Have they even confirmed sandbox mode?

Nate Simpson mentioned not having the sandbox players spoiling the new star systems for the career players in an early interview with either ShadowZone or Scott Manley. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

Nate Simpson mentioned not having the sandbox players spoiling the new star systems for the career players in an early interview with either ShadowZone or Scott Manley. 

Thanks, that's interesting. I wonder how they'll handle that? Sandbox only in the Kerbolar system, but you'll have to discover and reach the other systems the same way as in career before you can do anything in them?

13 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

I can't understand how sandbox being implemented is an issue. As long as you have all parts available, and the normal progression systems are either bypassed or limited, how it's done is moot.

I'm not quite so sure. KSP2 will have the interstellar dimension, and progression will (likely) be driven by resource availability/extraction and infrastructure (orbital and off-world shipyards etc) as much as science progress; IIRC they said there won't even be funds. That would imply that the only difference between sandbox and adventure would be that you'd start out with a fully upgraded KSC and the tech tree completely unlocked. You'd still need to progress your way to interstellar by building up the infrastructure and resource extraction.

So while sandbox mode might feel more or less the same as it does now in the early game, you would have to deal with progression soon enough otherwise.

[Bej Kerman]

19 hours ago, Master39 said:

Also, the colonies grow with "boom events" unlocking new capabilities that can be built to advance, how is this interacting with the sandbox mode?

In KSP 1 sandbox mode doesn't give you infinite fuel just because you have a IRSU on your craft, the same reasoning applied to KSP2 could mean that the sandbox mode only applies to the things directly launched from the KSC and that after you build the first colony the game would be the same as progression mode.

The way I see it, you have all parts unlocked at the start instead of having to unlock everything using boom events.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

IIRC they said there won't even be funds.

Nope, they said they will not be a problem, they never confirmed their absence, but as you correctly stated the colony system will most likely based on resources making money useless and ending up with this:

4 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

That would imply that the only difference between sandbox and adventure would be that you'd start out with a fully upgraded KSC and the tech tree completely unlocked. You'd still need to progress your way to interstellar by building up the infrastructure and resource extraction.

 

2 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

The way I see it, you have all parts unlocked at the start instead of having to unlock everything using boom events.

Unlocked as in "unlocked in the tech tree", unlocked as in "you will be able to build it without meeting the workforce/population requirement" or unlocked like "you can cheat it also ignoring the resource cost and time to build"?

See? The answer is not so simple and that can be applied to every new KSP2 system like Life support, supply lines, off-world ship-building, colonization, interstellar travel and all the others we still don't know about.

[kerbiloid]

I will send them axes, shovels, and bags of potatoes.
If they want to survive, they may build a colony from the potato bags filled with sand.
Frozen water can fill the gaps.

Upd.
No axes. Let them sharpen the shovels. Anyway there are no forests in game.

Edited June 24, 2020 by kerbiloid

[Bej Kerman]

1 hour ago, Master39 said:

Unlocked as in "unlocked in the tech tree", unlocked as in "you will be able to build it without meeting the workforce/population requirement" or unlocked like "you can cheat it also ignoring the resource cost and time to build"?

Either both or the latter. Perhaps KSP 2 will have a custom game mode as well.

[shdwlrd]

8 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

Thanks, that's interesting. I wonder how they'll handle that? Sandbox only in the Kerbolar system, but you'll have to discover and reach the other systems the same way as in career before you can do anything in them?

That's the way I took it. Could be different though.

9 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

I'm not quite so sure. KSP2 will have the interstellar dimension, and progression will (likely) be driven by resource availability/extraction and infrastructure (orbital and off-world shipyards etc) as much as science progress; IIRC they said there won't even be funds. That would imply that the only difference between sandbox and adventure would be that you'd start out with a fully upgraded KSC and the tech tree completely unlocked. You'd still need to progress your way to interstellar by building up the infrastructure and resource extraction.

So while sandbox mode might feel more or less the same as it does now in the early game, you would have to deal with progression soon enough otherwise.

The point I'm trying to make is you don't have to deal with the progression of the colonies. In KSP1, the sandbox has a feature that automatically recruites new Kerbals for your crafts. Why can't that be expanded to include colonies? You can control the population of the colonies the hard way, transporting them there. Or the easy way, selecting the colony and telling them the number of Kerbals you want to add or subtract.

As for the resource costs related to colonies, you can handle that the same way you test out new base mods in KSP1, infinite resources toggle.

[Guest]

^
Who knows, maybe? At this point it's just speculation though, we'll see what they do when we see it.

[Barrackar]

The new mechanic of establishing supply routes must be linked to the creation of colonies. From what I have heard, I am envisioning a game much more focused on payloads delivered. You start only able to launch from Kerbin, but able to launch ships of some maximum size. Bringing a pre-colony-station part/payload to a new location deploys to the new location and creates a new location where you can launch from. However, the capability of the new station starts very limited only able to launch tiny-sized or resource limited ships. The capability is expanded by making delivery runs of resources/payload TBD to trigger the "boom events" hinted at by developers. After the new colony/station is expanded it can launch larger ships and be a starting point to attempt to establish a next colony.

The benefits of this staged approach to colonization is it avoids tedium. Once the trip from Kerbin surface to a certain orbit is navigated successfully a certain number of times with varying sized/shaped payloads it is tedious to merely repeat previous journeys. By establishing a notion of a supply route repeats are avoided and the player can move on to building craft to the next challenge, whatever that might be.

The natural progression would be to build an orbiting Kerbin shipyard, to build Mun bases for resource collection, attempt establishing bases on or over other planets bodies, and finally build bases/colonies at interstellar locations. The player can choose the location. Some will choose to build extensive surface bases to utilize in-situ resources while other players will build large orbital stations with supply route mining drop-ships landing to collect resources and return those resources to the orbiting station. Maybe some of both.