Warp drive?

[Awaras]

Warp drive 'more feasible than previously thought'...

http://www.space.com/17628-warp-drive-possible-interstellar-spaceflight.html

Edited September 18, 2012 by Awaras

[Enture]

Yep, saw that earlier today; my mind's blown ever since, and I spent the next three hours thinking about this, and its implications...

I'd like to have some details on how this spacetime-warping device would actually work, though.

But yeah, it seems the rule saying that science-fiction always loses the "fiction" part after a while is at work yet again

[1of6Billion]

LOL, have that link under my CTRL-V because I wanted to post it here too...

So.... Who's doing the mod?

[Accelerando]

I'm also interested in knowing how low the required energy can probably be for a viable spacecraft  a probe, at least  to make the trip. The energy contained in the mass of Voyager is still well over a quadrillion joules, as outlined in one of the later comments on that article. At a power generation rate of around 1 gigajoule per second, a large Earth-based light water nuclear reactor does not even begin to make up that amount of energy: it would have to keep running for multiple gigaseconds, periods of about 32 years. For humans to launch an Alcubierre ship any time in the next century or two, I think it would have to be probable that the energy requirement be pared down by at least six orders of magnitude.

[Szkeptik]

Yes, I read it too. Don't get your hopes up though. If NASA had any real hopes for this it wouldn't be going in the skunkworks.

Having my fingers crossed of course.

[Awaras]

Well, it is still orders of magnitude below the previous 'converting the entire mass of Jupiter into energy' requirement...

Anyway, it is not something that has a chance to yield practical results in the next 20-50 years or so, but it is nice to see that scientists are not dismissing it out of hand.

As Clarke said about the possibility of a space elevator, 'It will probably be built about 50 years after people stop laughing at the idea...'

[Enture]

I'm also interested in knowing how low the required energy can probably be for a viable spacecraft  a probe, at least  to make the trip. The energy contained in the mass of Voyager is still well over a quadrillion joules, as outlined in one of the later comments on that article. At a power generation rate of around 1 gigajoule per second, a large Earth-based light water nuclear reactor does not even begin to make up that amount of energy: it would have to keep running for multiple gigaseconds, periods of about 32 years. For humans to launch an Alcubierre ship any time in the next century or two, I think it would have to be probable that the energy requirement be pared down by at least six orders of magnitude.

Well, it sounds like they're working on it... and optimism is allowed, since they already brought it down from Jupiter's mass-energy to a probe's mass-energy, which are separated by 25 orders of magnitude: ~6.5x10^19 J for Voyager-1, ~1.7x10^44 J for Jupiter...

Where it really gets mind-boggling (as always with relativity), is to think that, for example, a trip to Proxima Centauri would take about 5 months at 10x light speed, but still the signal of the probe's good arrival would need 4 years to reach us. And I don't even know how long the 5 months seen from the ship's prospective would actually appear to last for us back on Earth... I guess one can calculate it with abit of relativity know-how, though? I've had a bit of relativity theory and lagrangian physics applied to relativity already at uni, but I haven't the courage to try it tonight... Anyone?

If anybody has a good article to share on how such a warp drive actually works -the physics behind it-, don't hesitate, and share it, I'm interested!

PS: I assume "quadrillion" means 10^15?

[Awaras]

And I don't even know how long the 5 months seen from the ship's prospective would actually appear to last for us back on Earth...

Well, if the 'warp drive' kept the space containing the living areas of the ship 'flat' as the article claims, than there would be no relativistic effects. The trip would last the same amount of time for the crew of the ship as for the rest of the universe.

[Enture]

Well, if the 'warp drive' kept the space containing the living areas of the ship 'flat' as the article claims, than there would be no relativistic effects. The trip would last the same amount of time for the crew of the ship as for the rest of the universe.

Oh, true.

...

Sitting yet again in wonder and amazement when seeing what physics potentially allows us to do...

[Carthaginian]

Yes, I read it too. Don't get your hopes up though. If NASA had any real hopes for this it wouldn't be going in the skunkworks.

Having my fingers crossed of course.

Remember- Skunkworks is as real as it gets.

They are not a theoretical design house.

Skunkworks builds the impossible 10 years before anyone else can. To me, it's a sign of how serious we are about building this thing that they have their fingers in the pie, rather than a sign of the fact that it will not be possible anytime soon.

[Vanamonde]

This ring, potentially made of exotic matter,

Well, that sounds like a bit of a stumbling block. Which Home Depot aisle stocks the exotic matter? Edited September 18, 2012 by Vanamonde

[Accelerando]

Well, it is still orders of magnitude below the previous 'converting the entire mass of Jupiter into energy' requirement...

Since I know little of the physics behind the Alcubierre system, I would not suppose offhand that the orders of magnitude drop from the older energy estimates to the new ones are necessarily going to relate to the amount of required energy that can be shaved off in this new theory.

PS: I assume "quadrillion" means 10^15?

[vexx32]

Notice how it says they require "exotic matter". That's usually a facny way of saying "we need something we're not sure exists yet".

[jonathan_92]

Actually, according to this article, you'd only need 500 Kg of fuel. That's like nothing!!!! The space shuttle uses more fuel mass than that!!! (albeit it probably needs anti-matter fuel)

http://gizmodo.com/5942634/nasa-starts-development-of-real-life-star-trek-warp-drive

[Awaras]

For fuel, yes, however the article states that:

This ring, potentially made of exotic matter, would cause space-time to warp around the starship, creating a region of contracted space in front of it and expanded space behind.

When they talk about 'exotic matter' they usually mean stuff like negative mass, negative energy and other things that we are not yet sure if they are even possible...

[Deltac]

Well, whenever we get this up and running, we should head to Charon real quick, see if it has a Mass Relay in it, and if not, this is my favorite store on the Citadel.

Anyway, 10 lightyears in 1 year, that would be a huge jump when this is up and running. Also, would a Fusion reactor work? Probably will need superconductors to store a ton of energy. While we're at that, might as well make a ring of superconducting material with 9 Chevrons, and an inner ring with symbols to make a wormhole to other rings around the galaxy.

ANYWAY, not sure about the science behind this. I mean if it's pure unadulterated power they want, a mini-star would be nice :3 Course, we shouldn't say no to exotic matter, either. Might be able to solve the unifying theory, and build replicators with it. Replicators from Star Trek, not stargate >_>;

[Person012345]

IIRC the alcubierre metric also requires the existence of tachionic exotic matter... which is problematic in that we don't know whether tachyons exist and we don't know if exotic matter exists.

[RedDwarfIV]

I gotta draw an FTL probe based on this.

[Person012345]

Notice how it says they require "exotic matter". That's usually a facny way of saying "we need something we're not sure exists yet".

Exotic matter is exotic. That is, it has properties that wouldn't conform to normal physics (such as having negative mass). We don't know if it exists yet, and if I remember correctly, said exotic matter would also have to be tachyonic because it would "ride" the ridge of the expanding/contracting spacetime, or something. Been a while since I looked into it though so that could be wrong.

[Person012345]

That being said, I've thought for a while that the alcubierre metric is one of the most plausible ways we might achieve FTL.

[RedDwarfIV]

Made on Roblox, still looks cool IMO.

[Deltac]

I actually like that probe design, also ADVENTURE TIME! :3

[Warshawski]

I'm also interested in knowing how low the required energy can probably be for a viable spacecraft  a probe, at least  to make the trip. The energy contained in the mass of Voyager is still well over a quadrillion joules, as outlined in one of the later comments on that article. At a power generation rate of around 1 gigajoule per second, a large Earth-based light water nuclear reactor does not even begin to make up that amount of energy: it would have to keep running for multiple gigaseconds, periods of about 32 years. For humans to launch an Alcubierre ship any time in the next century or two, I think it would have to be probable that the energy requirement be pared down by at least six orders of magnitude.

Yes, that's true. I doubt they're going to settle for even the highest-efficiency nuclear reactor, though. Once we crack fusion technology (which will likely be VERY soon) then the universe is our oyster.

Exotic matter is exotic. That is, it has properties that wouldn't conform to normal physics (such as having negative mass). We don't know if it exists yet, and if I remember correctly, said exotic matter would also have to be tachyonic because it would "ride" the ridge of the expanding/contracting spacetime, or something. Been a while since I looked into it though so that could be wrong.

Exotic matter may not be what you think it is - a century ago, nylon was exotic matter E-M is just the term scientists use when they don't want to bog uninformed folks down in details when they've got something big and ground-breaking to say they've discovered.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Warshawski

[Person012345]

Exotic matter may not be what you think it is - a century ago, nylon was exotic matter E-M is just the term scientists use when they don't want to bog uninformed folks down in details when they've got something big and ground-breaking to say they've discovered.

In the case of warping spacetime in the way required for the alcubierre metric, I'm pretty sure it refers to negative-mass particles. Exotic matter can be used as a catch-all term, but there are also specific things to which it refers. In the context of spacetime warping, such as for idea about stabilising wormholes and concepts such as the alcubierre metric, I'm pretty sure they're referring to a specific type of hypothetical matter. Such types of exotic matter have not yet been discovered. We don't know if those types of exotic matter exist.

[nhnifong]

Are there any FTL data transmission methods based on this?

Also, if it's made of or contains tachyons doesn't that mean it can't stop?