Poll on multi-monitor support

[mcwaffles2003]

Just polling the community on what seems to be a controversial issue currently and would like to see the numbers on where people stand.

 

Of those in favor of adding this feature I'd like to measure the enthusiasm for it. Would you be willing to see the game delayed to ensure the implementation of this feature? And if so, for how long? A couple days, a week, 2 weeks, a couple months?

Edited July 21, 2020 by mcwaffles2003

[Guest]

I don't have a multi-monitor set-up at the moment but I support the implementation of the functionality to the point that I would buy a second monitor just for KSP

[mcwaffles2003]

5 minutes ago, Master39 said:

I don't have a multi-monitor set-up at the moment but I support the implementation of the functionality to the point that I would buy a second monitor just for KSP

I have an old 720p LCD monitor that is like 10 or 15 yrs old that I would pull out to use this. My main screen is a TV on my desk because 60Hz is fine enough for me and doubles as a... well TV

[shdwlrd]

If multi monitor support is a pita to get working, then add it later. This feature isn't important enough to delay the release of the game any further. 

It's nice to have, but not necessary.

[linuxgurugamer]

Another problem with Multimonitor support is for streamers, they cant show a second monitor

[swjr-swis]

A plethora of monitors here. Would definitely use it.

Did not vote on the public poll, out of principle.

 

[mcwaffles2003]

48 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Another problem with Multimonitor support is for streamers, they cant show a second monitor

They can face cam, I'm sure they can find a way to include the 2nd screen. If not, then they have to play on a single screen or just show one screen while streaming. This, IMO, is not a reason not to implement the feature though.

26 minutes ago, swjr-swis said:

A plethora of monitors here. Would definitely use it.

Did not vote on the public poll, out of principle.

 

Sorry, didn't realize making it public was taboo. Didn't seem to me like an issue people would want to keep hidden, my apologies. Just curious though, if you don't want your opinion publicly shown then why publicly state it outside of the poll?

Also, it being public allows differentions between people with 1 monitor still supporting multi-monitor support and people with multiple monitors disagreeing with multi-monitor support

Edited July 21, 2020 by mcwaffles2003

[pmborg]

57 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Another problem with Multimonitor support is for streamers, they cant show a second monitor

Hello!

All DX applications wih Nvidia cards support multi monitor by nature:

Here me with KSP in 3 monitors:

The FPS become locked at 60FPS in my case, due 2 monitors with 60 and only 1 with 144Hz.

So when I use 1 monitor, I have 144 FPS with 3 monitors, I am limited by HW with 60 FPS.

 

This work for all games/Applications that use DX11++

The SETUP is done here: (span displays)

 

Final comment, sometimes I use 4 monitors:

• 3 in span for the application and a 4th to browser, for example out of the DX/rendering application
• Or just use the 4 in Flight Simulator 2020, for example.

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by pmborg

[mcwaffles2003]

36 minutes ago, pmborg said:

Hello!

All DX applications wih Nvidia cards support multi monitor by nature:

Here me with KSP in 3 monitors:

The FPS become locked at 60FPS in my case, due 2 monitors with 60 and only 1 with 144Hz.

So when I use 1 monitor, I have 144 FPS with 3 monitors, I am limited by HW with 60 FPS.

 

This work for all games/Applications that use DX11++

The SETUP is done here: (span displays)

 

Final comment, sometimes I use 4 monitors:

• 3 in span for the application and a 4th to browser, for example out of the DX/rendering application
• Or just use the 4 in Flight Simulator 2020, for example.

 

 

 

Not to speak for @linuxgurugamer but I think an implication for multi-monitor support is having the game open multiple windows and having each window fullscreen in different monitors as opposed to spanning a single image. These full windows would both operate on the single instance of KSP 2 running but 1 window would have one set of data (a view of the craft for instance) and the other would contain the map and/or any hud/UI add-ons etc...

The objective being to have a clean view of the craft in flight without clutter while the other window contains all the data/map to better organize the KSP experience

[pmborg]

6 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

Not to speak for @linuxgurugamer but I think an implication for multi-monitor support is having the game open multiple windows and having each window fullscreen in different monitors as opposed to spanning a single image. These full windows would both operate on the single instance of KSP 2 running but 1 window would have one set of data (a view of the craft for instance) and the other would contain the map and/or any hud/UI add-ons etc...

The objective being to have a clean view of the craft in flight without clutter while the other window contains all the data/map to better organize the KSP experience

 

Yes I understood, that is a nice Idea/feature and actually is very simple to implement, is just a matter of collect the adapters in a vector and always use that with a for instead of use direct command do adapter, and then have 2 threads for each Monitor, this in terms of a DX direct code do not know how is done in Unity

 

 

 

 

[pandaman]

Definitely in favour of including the feature.   

I can't add anything useful to what I have already said elsewhere on this, so will leave it at that.

[swjr-swis]

53 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

Sorry, didn't realize making it public was taboo.

It isn't. It's my personal opinion on unnecessary information gathering. If you create a poll to know 'how many', you don't need to know WHO exactly. It's completely irrelevant to the question you wish to have answered.

More than that: it will often stand in the way of people taking poll results objectively ("well ppffff, of course *that group* would say 'nay' or 'yay'. Well, discounting for *them*.... the numbers actually show <whatever interpretation was favoured>").

 

58 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

my apologies.

No need.

 

58 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

Just curious though, if you don't want your opinion publicly shown then why publicly state it outside of the poll?

Because, in case it was unclear , I have no issue letting people know my opinions. It has however nothing to do with my aversion to public polls. They are separate matters.

Enough OT. Carry on with the poll.

[mcwaffles2003]

Sorry to drag it out

10 minutes ago, swjr-swis said:

If you create a poll to know 'how many', you don't need to know WHO exactly. It's completely irrelevant to the question you wish to have answered.

 

1 hour ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

it being public allows differentions between people with 1 monitor still supporting multi-monitor support and people with multiple monitors disagreeing with multi-monitor support

So it helps to understand the data and properly correlate it. Otherwise we wouldn't know if anyone with multiple monitors may not want the feature in the game or wouldn't use it. For instance, I answered that I use one monitor but I also answered I would use this feature (I will go grab another monitor just for this game) and I think that type of combination of answers is not intuitive and would be over-looked.

[linuxgurugamer]

There is a difference between stretching a game screen between multiple monitors as mentioned earlier, and having the ability to have multiple windows. IMHO, stretching a game between multiple monitors can be considered to be a single monitor from a functional point of view;  the game itself doesn't know about anything more than one screen.

2 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

They can face cam, I'm sure they can find a way to include the 2nd screen. If not, then they have to play on a single screen or just show one screen while streaming. This, IMO, is not a reason not to implement the feature though.

No, but something you may not be aware of is that many games are being aimed at the streaming area, to the point that some things are done or not done in order to support streamers.  It makes sense from the publisher's point of view because lots of people watch games on stream (Twitch, YouTube, etc) before deciding to buy it.

In fact, I did just that recently;  I watched several sessions of SnowRunner before deciding to buy it.

[I likeOxidizerrfuel]

I don't mind at all. My desk is too small anyways, but I still support the cause for multi-monitor support.

[swjr-swis]

12 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

14 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

it being public allows differentions between people with 1 monitor still supporting multi-monitor support and people with multiple monitors disagreeing with multi-monitor support

So it helps to understand the data and properly correlate it. Otherwise we wouldn't know if anyone with multiple monitors may not want the feature in the game or wouldn't use it. For instance, I answered that I use one monitor but I also answered I would use this feature (I will go grab another monitor just for this game) and I think that type of combination of answers is not intuitive and would be over-looked.

It doesn't, actually. The way to answer those potentially-overlooked 'combinations' is not by gathering WHO is giving the answers... it's done by asking MULTIPLE questions and then counting if and how many times each specific combination of answers is chosen. Which you already did. The names of those answering being PUBLIC or not makes exactly ZERO difference and adds nothing to that particular differentiation.

Some pseudo-code:

loop vote-counting until all-votes-counted:
  case A:
    people answering NO to 'do you have >1 monitor'
    and answering NO to 'would you want this feature'
    ; this combination happens for single-monitor people that do not want multi-monitor support
    tally one vote for 'not-have and not-want'
  case B:
    people answering YES to 'do you have >1 monitor'
    and answering NO to 'would you want this feature'
    ; this combination happens for multi-monitor people that do not want multi-monitor support
    tally one vote for 'multi-have but not-want'
  case C:
    people answering NO to 'do you have >1 monitor'
    and answering YES to 'would you want this feature'
    ; this combination happens for single-monitor people that want multi-monitor support
    tally one vote for 'not-have but want-wanyway'
  case D:
    people answering YES to 'do you have >1 monitor'
    and answering YES to 'would you want this feature'
    ; this combination happens for multi-monitor people that want multi-monitor support
    tally one vote for 'multi-have and totally-want'
end loop

compare end result of votes of all 4 groups
; now we have an objective comparison between 4 different situations we're interested in...
;  without requiring the names of each person in each specific group.

 

Adding the nuance of not-want/not-mind/want is just a matter of adding that possible answer to one of the questions and adding a 'bucket' for those specific combinations. Which you also already did... and still does not require the NAMES of who exactly picked each combination of answers.

Now if 44 out of 100 total answers picked answer combinations C and D, we would have a reasonably objective confirmation of an oft-quoted notion that 'less than 45% of people would  be interested actually using more than one monitor'. That particular statistic would still be true, for this set of data, whether you know WHO each of those 44 voters are or not.

Edited July 22, 2020 by swjr-swis
numbers is hard, apparently

[TBenz]

6 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Another problem with Multimonitor support is for streamers, they cant show a second monitor

I'd hardly consider that a "problem". So long as multi-monitor isn't required to play the game, the inclusion of it wouldn't negatively impact streamers and their ability to stream.

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, TBenz said:

I'd hardly consider that a "problem". So long as multi-monitor isn't required to play the game, the inclusion of it wouldn't negatively impact streamers and their ability to stream.

It's not a problem, other than if the publisher wants the game to be visually impressive, they will have to concentrate on single-screen play rather than multi-screen

[DStaal]

I could also see multi-monitor helping some streamers - if the focus of the stream is telling some story or showing the flight, it might be useful for the streamer to be able to move flight control elements to a different screen that's not being streamed.

It depends on exactly what can be sent to each monitor, how it's done, and the purpose of the stream if it matters to the stream.

 

Overall, I could see some very good uses for it in KSP (being able to see both the ship and the map view, for instance), but I'm unlikely to ever be able to use it personally.

[TBenz]

34 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

It's not a problem, other than if the publisher wants the game to be visually impressive, they will have to concentrate on single-screen play rather than multi-screen

Maybe the publisher only cares about "visually impressive", but if the developer wants the game to be a good videogame, they will have to split their attention across multiple priorities: Gameplay, User Interface, Visual Quality, Performance/Stability, and Sound Design.

Yes, Intercept has limited resources that they need to assign to various aspects of the game. Some resources spent on this UI feature may mean less resources they can devote to Visual Quality features. However, that is true of any feature not a part of Visual Quality. One of Intercept's jobs is to weigh the pro's and con's of how they assign their resources, and make decisions they believe to best contribute to the player experience. It really should go without saying that any feature will require some amount of resources that then cannot be used on other features. However, that is not a "problem" of the feature itself, it's a fundamental principle of scarcity. 

[Draco T stand-up guy]

8 hours ago, swjr-swis said:

It doesn't, actually. The way to answer those potentially-overlooked 'combinations' is not by gathering WHO is giving the answers... it's done by asking MULTIPLE questions and then counting if and how many times each specific combination of answers is chosen. Which you already did. The names of those answering being PUBLIC or not makes exactly ZERO difference and adds nothing to that particular differentiation.

Now if 44 out of 100 total answers picked answer combinations C and D, we would have a reasonably objective confirmation of an oft-quoted notion that 'less than 45% of people would  be interested actually using more than one monitor'. That particular statistic would still be true, for this set of data, whether you know WHO each of those 45 voters are or not.

1. Not seeing any names in the poll. Of course, the people who have access to the back-end of the site probably can if they're so inclined.
2. I am seeing, at this time, 5 people saying that they would use this feature even though they presently have only one monitor.

Screenshot for clarity:

So far, 53% of respondents would use this feature.

Of course, that can't be assumed to apply to all who play KSP or even all who would buy KSP2 as not everyone is here commenting on the forum. The majority of players probably don't even come to the forum.

[Draco T stand-up guy]

6 hours ago, DStaal said:

Overall, I could see some very good uses for it in KSP (being able to see both the ship and the map view, for instance)

It does depend a lot on what the second screen is used for.

I'd like to see Mission Control on it (Replacing MechJeb), my orbital information, the orbital information of anything targeted, as well as a real-time representation of the Kerbol System. That's while in flight.

In the VAB to be able to see the mission plan (from Mission Control), the specs of each stage and its dV so that I can compare the capabilities of my design in relation to the mission parameters.

In Mission Control I'd like to be able to see Tracking. In fact, I think a full function Mission Control would be where having two screens would really shine. Especially in designing missions.

[mcwaffles2003]

16 minutes ago, Draco T stand-up guy said:

1. Not seeing any names in the poll. Of course, the people who have access to the back-end of the site probably can if they're so inclined.

click the people icons on the right, shows a list

[Draco T stand-up guy]

5 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

click the people icons on the right, shows a list

Yep, that's silly.

Can't say that I thought anybody would actually program that in to the software.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Draco T stand-up guy

[mcwaffles2003]

3 minutes ago, Draco T stand-up guy said:

Yep, that's silly.

Can't say that I thought anybody would actually program that in to the software.

I guess I could have made the responses more nuanced but if I change it now I think it will delete the poll numbers and people cant change their vote (really wish changing votes was possible on this site btw)