[1.9.1-1.10.1] Kiwi Tech Tree Overhaul 1.3.0 (17 December 2020)

[hemeac]

Thanks everyone for responding to queries from other users.  Time is still a bit tight with work, but my schedule is looking to free up a bit in July.  I have at least opened up KSP this week to see where I left off with KTT and will start lurking through the forums to see what everyone has been up to while away.  If you are feeling sad/angry that KTT has not been upgraded, these two guys are the primary reason for my lack of spare time recently and really helped me realize how sedentary I was last year:

Spoiler

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by hemeac

[Zelda]

3 hours ago, hemeac said:

If you are feeling sad/angry that KTT has not been upgraded, these two guys are the primary reason for my lack of spare time recently and really helped me realize how sedentary I was last year:

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Okay, talk about insanely cute. Out of curiosity, what kind of dogs? 

[hemeac]

8 hours ago, Zelda said:

Okay, talk about insanely cute. Out of curiosity, what kind of dogs? 

It's hard to get mad at them even when chewing on the carpet.  They are Havanese

[SiCaRiO31]

17 hours ago, hemeac said:

Thanks everyone for responding to queries from other users.  Time is still a bit tight with work, but my schedule is looking to free up a bit in July.  I have at least opened up KSP this week to see where I left off with KTT and will start lurking through the forums to see what everyone has been up to while away.  If you are feeling sad/angry that KTT has not been upgraded, these two guys are the primary reason for my lack of spare time recently and really helped me realize how sedentary I was last year:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

thats great news! and those are some cute looking good bois . Dogs do really bring joy to your life, even when they chew everything in sight.

Regarding KTT, theese are main issues I found in my current carreer save:

• If you dont have Making History, the parts added by Restock+ have their original positions in the tech tree (for instance, the sp-1 pod was at the start node). I think thisn also affect engines and fuel tanks.
• In 1.11.2 probes have all the SAS capabilities from the beggining (altrough I red somewhere that this was a bug from stock when  Making History was not installed). 
• Some antennas have weird places in the tech tree, for instance the HG-61 (15GM range) was 1 tier before the RA-2 (2 GM range), or the DTS-J1 been before the RA-2, when the former has better stats than the later. I swaped possitions of those 2, and also the Comm 88-88 with the RA-100. For me it makes sense to have the ones with worst stats first, and then get better each tier.

 

[flart]

On 6/9/2021 at 2:22 AM, hemeac said:

I will start lurking through the forums to see what everyone has been up to while away

probably easier to start with the PRs on github 

[hemeac]

Definitely did not think it was more than a month since my last post.  Work looks like it will be busy so while my original plan was to first finish up a parts mod will be on hold.  While that had meant to bring very small parts to correspond to the mid 20th century, still have hopes to get to that at some point.  In the mean time  I have installed 1.12.1 and have just poked around a little bit and spent today writing up a script to parse through the ModuleManager Config Cache to pull out some more stats for the engines and other components than what I had been able to get using other people's code. That should make the process on sorting parts easier as I will be able to sort by engines's ISP and thrust.

[SiCaRiO31]

Is it possible to have jetpacks be avaliable later in the tech tree?  Been able to instantly jump out of a ship on your first crewed mission seems a little odd, taking into account the history of our space programs :p

[hemeac]

23 hours ago, SiCaRiO31 said:

Is it possible to have jetpacks be avaliable later in the tech tree?  Been able to instantly jump out of a ship on your first crewed mission seems a little odd, taking into account the history of our space programs :p

I think that is possible!  I had been on the fence on updating the 1.4 version of the tree, but think it deserves at least one more update as I wait for some mods to catch up to 1.12. 

My big priorities between placing the 1.11 parts will be updating the Near Future suite that accommodates the new methalox engines and also getting Far Future added.  No timetable at the moment as I have also been back in Blender looking at where I ended up with the Mid-Century Rockets mod.  I think I am going to cycle between these depending on interest and how long we stay in lockdown again in Melbourne.       

[SiCaRiO31]

amazing! How much different its the 1.4 tech tree from the current one? I been enjoying my carreer save with this mod for about half a year now, but have found some odd placements of certain parts (like having a huge stock storage container relatively early on the tech treee) and that bug where the comand pods from restock+ where in their original position because I didnt had Making Hisotry installed. I suppose those will be fixed with the next version of the mod, so I intent to start a new career save when it comes out (I enjoy the early tech tree a lot :P).

[hemeac]

The 2.0 will be a save game breaking update, but at this point, it isn't more than an empty tree and a framework for upgrades.  The ETA for release is a big question mark at the moment.  But the goal is to go back to the drawing board for placing parts. 

I've made a note to go through Restock+ to place parts when Making History isn't installed, but I think that if you have already unlocked it in an existing save, it will still be unlocked even if fixed in my config files.  But hopefully for the next save :-).  

 

Spoiler

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by hemeac

[flart]

8 hours ago, hemeac said:

I think that if you have already unlocked it in an existing save, it will still be unlocked even if fixed in my config files.

yes, the part need to be removed from the ResearchAndDevelopment/Tech node in the save file.
I will remove the hole ResearchAndDevelopment, cheat science, and unlock to the same level

[CessnaSkyhawk]

Are you still considering BDB and FFT support? I’m thinking about starting a new career using it and I’m deciding between using tetrix with a patch for now or holding out for an update of this tech tree

[hemeac]

3 hours ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

Are you still considering BDB and FFT support? I’m thinking about starting a new career using it and I’m deciding between using tetrix with a patch for now or holding out for an update of this tech tree

I've added a light patch for FFT that adds patches for Kerbalism. Otherwise at this point, I'm focusing on updating the existing patches where there are new parts for the next update. 

[CessnaSkyhawk]

14 hours ago, hemeac said:

I've added a light patch for FFT that adds patches for Kerbalism. Otherwise at this point, I'm focusing on updating the existing patches where there are new parts for the next update. 

Alright - in that case I might honestly actually just try and make a quick (or as quick as it can be for such a huge mod) BDB patch at some point. Not sure when tho 

Edited July 24, 2021 by CessnaSkyhawk

[Spaceman.Spiff]

@hemeac

Glad to see you’re back on this!

Would you consider adding support for Blueshift?

[hemeac]

12 hours ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

Alright - in that case I might honestly actually just try and make a quick (or as quick as it can be for such a huge mod) BDB patch at some point. Not sure when tho 

BDB will be one of the core mods that I use for balancing the tech nodes for 2.0, but given it's size and given that the process on upgrades is different enough between the 1.x and 2.x branch, that's too much time spending on both.  But if you are interested in adding some patches for 1.x, let me know and I can generate a part list for you to start working from.

6 hours ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

@hemeac

Glad to see you’re back on this!

Would you consider adding support for Blueshift?

Glad to be back myself :-).  Nertea's mods were an exception to not adding more support as KTT was originally designed around them, but while Blueshift is definitely on my radar for 2.x.  

Edited July 25, 2021 by hemeac

[CessnaSkyhawk]

39 minutes ago, hemeac said:

BDB will be one of the core mods that I use for balancing the tech nodes for 2.0, but given it's size and given that the process on upgrades is different enough between the 1.x and 2.x branch, that's too much time spending on both.  But if you are interested in adding some patches for 1.x, let me know and I can generate a part list for you to start working from.

Glad to be back myself :-).  Nertea's mods were an exception to not adding more support as KTT was originally designed around them, but while Blueshift is definitely on my radar for 2.x.  

If you’re planning a big restructure for 2.0, then I might just hold off and play with TETRIX Tech Tree for my main career till it comes out - I already took a look at the patching and it seems like quite a bit more complex than the one I made for TETRIX already.
 

Either way, best of luck to you with 2.0, and if you ever need a beta tester, let me know! 

Edited July 25, 2021 by CessnaSkyhawk

[hemeac]

On 2/3/2021 at 12:39 PM, Kwebib said:

Suggestion: Have battery upgrades occur later in the tech tree.  It doesn't take too much science to get to the 100% capacity upgrade, so you almost never have to deal with the design problem of needing higher quantities of batteries.

Been playing a Kerbalism + Kiwi game for a while now, and I love it.

Changed for the next update.

On 2/11/2021 at 12:42 AM, Redleg1 said:

I am curious if anyone else is using the Grounded mod and has noticed that there is no "Ground Vehicle" node in the tech tree? There is a folder for Grounded in the configurations folder and the Grounded_ktt.cfg file points to a  "Ground Vehicle" node for most of the parts. Additionally there is an icon for the node in the icons folder, but I do not see that node showing up in game.  Any thoughts?  Great mod overall by the way, amazing work!

Not sure what I had been thinking on having OpenCockpit as part of the requirement, that will be fixed for the next version.

On 2/24/2021 at 3:45 AM, Caerfinon said:

@hemeac I'm late to the game, but I started a new career using Kiwi and I'm very pleased with how it is working. Well done you.  

Glad you liked it!

 

On 4/1/2021 at 8:04 AM, Coyote21 said:

Two more MM patches to get some of my favourite KSP mods to fit with my very favourite KSP mod.

Kerbal Foundries2 - Personally I prefer these parts to those from Airplane+ and definitely more than Stock. Moves all parts to same nodes as their Airplane+ and Stock equivalents. Also adds the truck wheels to the Grounded (groundVehicles) node if it detects that Grounded is installed.

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Research Bodies - Simple patch that just puts the Research Bodies orbital satellite into same node as first ScanSat parts.

// Kiwi's Tech Tree Overhaul (ResearchBodies by Jplrepo Patch)
// Version 1.0
// Created: 31 March 2021 for KSP 1.11.2

@PART[TrackBodiesTelescope]:AFTER[REPOSoftTech/ResearchBodies]
{
	@TechRequired = basicScience
}

I have sent both (as well as my MJ2 patch from several posts ago) as pull requests but thought others may want to use them earlier.

Thanks for all of these MechJeb patches and comments, I don't use it so try not to touch it, so thanks!

On 4/15/2021 at 11:03 PM, Zelda said:

I have been a longtime KSP player and just started a career with KTT, and I am loving it so far - thank you for what obviously was a ton of work! It's been fun to have a totally different style of progression.

One question, and sorry if this is obvious but I'm having a hard time parsing this. I am running CryoEngines / CryoTanks, and I unlocked the first few CryoRocketry nodes but I'm not seeing any way to actually get LH2 / OX tanks. I unlocked the CryoTanks but they seem to be LH2 only. Is there another upgrade further along the tree to enable switching tanks to LH2 / OX? 

I've updated my patch for the next release, but this sounds like something else went wrong with your install.  Are you still having those issues?

On 4/12/2021 at 8:25 AM, Sabe042 said:

I stumbled onto this mod recently and I'm having a lot of fun with it.  I'm making progress on a pretty tough playthrough with Kerbalism, JNSQ, cryogenic engines, and a few more.  However, I've noticed that the engine upgrades that reduce ignition failure rates don't seem to be applying for liquid or cryo engines.  Engine descriptions still say a failure rate of 10% for standard engines and I have just researched the heavier rocketry tech where they should be down to 1%.  Solid engines appear to be working properly, and follow the percentage that is listed in the upgrades.

Has anyone else run into this problem or have an idea what might be causing it?

I thought I had tested that at the time for it to work, but if you still have your save file handy and want to send over some log files, I can take a look.

On 4/16/2021 at 4:30 AM, SiCaRiO31 said:

Just started playing with this mod for the first time. Im loving the slow start! :P. Are there any plans to have an Inline probe core early in the tech tree? I want my soundrockets to look like them but its hard doing it with a stayputnik, since you cant atatch a nosecone to it, and it looks too bulky with a small fairing.

 

I'm a personal huge fan of CRE that may help in that regard

 

On 5/7/2021 at 11:54 PM, SiCaRiO31 said:

you are absolutly right. I just tested it and it changes the size of the options I had (from 4-16 mb to 128-512 with 1 or 22 upgrades). I got confused by the options I had at the start of my career, I trough it was supppose to have only 4 mb available at the beginning.

However, the SAS controls are present from the beginning without any upgrades applied. 

I haven't been able to reproduce the SAS upgrades issue in my 1.11.2 career that I am testing right now.  I have nerfed some of the Kerbalism HD upgrades for the next update.

 

[Coyote21]

Just when you think your out.....They drag you back in.

Seeing Hemeac is back and working on version 2.0 means I'm gonna have to carve out some time for an new playthrough soon.

Hemeac, I'm guessing you're in lockdown, so here's hoping something good comes from that.

[hemeac]

10 hours ago, Coyote21 said:

Just when you think your out.....They drag you back in.

Seeing Hemeac is back and working on version 2.0 means I'm gonna have to carve out some time for an new playthrough soon.

Hemeac, I'm guessing you're in lockdown, so here's hoping something good comes from that.

Lockdown 5 in winter was definitely the motivator for getting started again on the mod , but things are still pretty good here.

[CrzyIrishmanBob]

I love your tech tree. I played with it in the past before eventually abandoning the game for a few months. Recently I started playing again, this time with Unkerballed Start on JNSQ since it directly supports KW. But it doesn't compare to the progression from your mod imo. 

 

That being said, I'm gonna have to abandon the JNSQ career because the lack of early contracts make it nearly impossible to upgrade the buildings and progress with part purchases. I noticed a JNSQ contract pack was on your list of ideas to play around with. I would love to work with you on developing that. I don't really use the forums much outside of reading mod threads so I don't know if I should PM you about this or not. Sorry if this is derailing to the thread. 

 

Also, I'm excited to hear about continued development on this mod. I'm very willing to help with testing when you get to that stage. Thanks for your work! 

[KawaiiLucy]

1 hour ago, CrzyIrishmanBob said:

That being said, I'm gonna have to abandon the JNSQ career because the lack of early contracts make it nearly impossible to upgrade the buildings and progress with part purchases.

I am playing a hard career with a 2.5x rescale, ctt (+Better Early Tree and Logical Progression) with science and funds both on 50% plus part entry costs enabled and if you don't use contract packs it's extremely hard (and much less fun). Those that I use is Exploration Plus (in conjunction to the normal Exploration contracts), Field Research, Tourism Plus and Bases and Stations. It is kinda grindy but fun in the early game to get tech to be able to go to orbit and beyond, but I recommend to not set funds penalties over 100% (which is the normal setting, and which determines how much building upgrades cost). While I am not very familiar with KTT, I know it is perfectly doable to get a probe into orbit and even to the mun in under 18t, even in rescaled systems, and without patched conics. From then on you should normally have enough funds to get those upgrades which open up the game and make satellite contracts much easier, the true, non cheesy, cash cow for early game.

What is really missing is sounding rocket contracts, that are well implemented in RP-1, which would make unmanned starts much easier (I know the survey contracts exist, but they suck imo and are unreliable, as most require crew reports in my experience).

I just realized that I might have misread your post...

[CrzyIrishmanBob]

14 minutes ago, KawaiiLucy said:

I am playing a hard career with a 2.5x rescale, ctt (+Better Early Tree and Logical Progression) with science and funds both on 50% plus part entry costs enabled and if you don't use contract packs it's extremely hard (and much less fun). Those that I use is Exploration Plus (in conjunction to the normal Exploration contracts), Field Research, Tourism Plus and Bases and Stations. It is kinda grindy but fun in the early game to get tech to be able to go to orbit and beyond, but I recommend to not set funds penalties over 100% (which is the normal setting, and which determines how much building upgrades cost). While I am not very familiar with KTT, I know it is perfectly doable to get a probe into orbit and even to the mun in under 18t, even in rescaled systems, and without patched conics. From then on you should normally have enough funds to get those upgrades which open up the game and make satellite contracts much easier, the true, non cheesy, cash cow for early game.

What is really missing is sounding rocket contracts, that are well implemented in RP-1, which would make unmanned starts much easier (I know the survey contracts exist, but they suck imo and are unreliable, as most require crew reports in my experience).

It was definitely doable, I had made a Mun flyby and could have made the orbit. But I was doing a lot of launches outside of contracts and eating up my funds. I use Kerbalism, so getting the atmospheric science was really grindy until I got to parachutes to recover my sounding rockets and the science within. And even then with 60% science I was still launching a lot of rockets to gather biome specific science. 

 

Honestly, my ideal would be an RP-1 like contract pack for JNSQ along with GAP to round off aircraft stuff. Then maybe later in the game stations and tourism can start up. 

[SiCaRiO31]

On 7/25/2021 at 5:57 AM, hemeac said:

I haven't been able to reproduce the SAS upgrades issue in my 1.11.2 career that I am testing right now.  I have nerfed some of the Kerbalism HD upgrades for the next update.

 

I read somewhere that its suppose to be a stock bug when Making History was not installed, didnt tested it yet since im away from my PC now, but back when 1.12 launched, I created a new save (with all my mods), and my probes had all the SAS capabilities still, along with all the crew been able to access all the maneouvers, regardless of their specialization (pilots, engineers or scientists), even trough they had no stars nor experience.

[Krydax]

11 hours ago, CrzyIrishmanBob said:

I love your tech tree. I played with it in the past before eventually abandoning the game for a few months. Recently I started playing again, this time with Unkerballed Start on JNSQ since it directly supports KW. But it doesn't compare to the progression from your mod imo. 

 

That being said, I'm gonna have to abandon the JNSQ career because the lack of early contracts make it nearly impossible to upgrade the buildings and progress with part purchases. I noticed a JNSQ contract pack was on your list of ideas to play around with. I would love to work with you on developing that. I don't really use the forums much outside of reading mod threads so I don't know if I should PM you about this or not. Sorry if this is derailing to the thread. 

 

Also, I'm excited to hear about continued development on this mod. I'm very willing to help with testing when you get to that stage. Thanks for your work! 

have you tried career evolution? It added a lot of helpful contracts for me (playing with unkerballed start as well) that got me enough funding to move forward!