[1.12.x] Stock Waterfall Effects (SWE) - A Waterfall config set for realistic rocket exhaust plumes for the stock engines

[Spaceman.Spiff]

2 hours ago, ShuttlePilot said:

RealPlume is more realistic. That's exactly why it's called REAL, because it's real. It's supposed to be real. Do you even get the point?

It’s called that because it was originally made as part of the REALism overhaul suite of mods. 
It has been superseded by Waterfall, and that is now the default for RO.  

[davide96]

hi all, is there a config for "KK's SpaceX Pack"??? how can I make it??? can someone help me please??

[Hux790]

Hello, this is my first time installing the Waterfall mod. I've installed the waterfall mod, Stock waterfall effects mod and the Module Manager 4.1.4. But i am still having trouble with the plumes. My plumes don't show up at all despite the engine being on and the rocket rising. The menu on the side of the screen ( Not sure of the proper language here) that you click on to open the waterfall mod menu for the plumes to change the look of your plumes does not show up properly and the icon is just a white square and the no text shows up in the menu for the mod. This is my first mod install can someone please help me as i am not quiet sure if I've added the files incorrectly or something else.

Cheers,

[Probus]

13 minutes ago, Hux790 said:

Hello, this is my first time installing the Waterfall mod. I've installed the waterfall mod, Stock waterfall effects mod and the Module Manager 4.1.4. But i am still having trouble with the plumes. My plumes don't show up at all despite the engine being on and the rocket rising. The menu on the side of the screen ( Not sure of the proper language here) that you click on to open the waterfall mod menu for the plumes to change the look of your plumes does not show up properly and the icon is just a white square and the no text shows up in the menu for the mod. This is my first mod install can someone please help me as i am not quiet sure if I've added the files incorrectly or something else.

Cheers,

Did you use CKAN.  It helps keep mods separate that are incompatible.  It probably has something to do with stock and restock waterfall being installed simultaneously (just a guess).  CKAN is here:

https://github.com/KSP-CKAN/CKAN/releases

8 hours ago, davide96 said:

hi all, is there a config for "KK's SpaceX Pack"??? how can I make it??? can someone help me please??

You will need to edit module manager config files.  If you feel comfortable doing that, I can point you in the right direction.

[Hux790]

No i did not use CKAN and i did not have the Restock mod. Also i'm not sure how to us CKAN. I have just installed CKAN and have only pressed the launch game button as im not sure how to use CKAN. The problem still persisted of no plumes and the scuffed menu.

I think i might of installed it oddly but i'm not sure, Sorry for this hassle.

Cheers

[EnderKid2]

tell us exactly what your gamedata folder heirarchy looks like (what files are in it, and where

[Hux790]

here is my files

ModuleManager-4.1.4

Squad

SquadExpansion

StockWaterfallEffects_0_5_0

Waterfall_0_6_3

(The files after Waterfall_0_6_3 aren't folders)

ModuleManager.ConfigCache

ModuleManager.ConfigSHA

ModuleManager.Physics

ModuleManager.TechTree

 

[ShuttlePilot]

19 hours ago, OrdinaryKerman said:

 

 

Waterfall expansion is just as realistic as RealPlume's,. If you still think otherwise, go on and use RealPlume and make your computer suffer just that little bit more.

Thanks, I'm somewhat inexperienced on the internet and can sometimes find it hard to spot trolls

I am NOT a troll. I'm arguing against you to defend the RealPlume's legacy

[OrdinaryKerman]

Just now, ShuttlePilot said:

I am NOT a troll. I'm arguing against you to defend the RealPlume's legacy

Nobody is trying to destroy RealPlume's legacy. Claiming that Waterfall is just as realistic as RealPlume doesn't somehow destroy RealPlume's legacy, it points to Waterfall as the future of liquid fuel engine plume rendering. RealPlume is still better than Waterfall at sea-level SRB plumes, and that's really its only advantage against Waterfall, and for most purposes Waterfall is being used as a lightweight successor to RealPlume, like in BDB or Tantares. RealPlume was the only way to display realistic plumes for most of KSP's history, nobody is disputing that.

I apologize for calling you a potential troll, it's just that your continued insistence that one is somehow better than the other in some aspect that is exactly the same in both things was starting to be annoying.

Edited June 13, 2021 by OrdinaryKerman

[ShuttlePilot]

19 minutes ago, OrdinaryKerman said:

Nobody is trying to destroy RealPlume's legacy. Claiming that Waterfall is just as realistic as RealPlume doesn't somehow destroy RealPlume's legacy, it points to Waterfall as the future of liquid fuel engine plume rendering. RealPlume is still better than Waterfall at sea-level SRB plumes, and that's really its only advantage against Waterfall, and for most purposes Waterfall is being used as a lightweight successor to RealPlume, like in BDB or Tantares. RealPlume was the only way to display realistic plumes for most of KSP's history, nobody is disputing that.

I apologize for calling you a potential troll, it's just that your continued insistence that one is somehow better than the other in some aspect that is exactly the same in both things was starting to be annoying.

That's nothing to me, no need to be sorry. I'm ending this argument. I was just trying to say that i like RealPlume more than Waterfall, and i like it even more with it's integration to SmokeScreen, it looks really awesome with SmokeScreen. But Waterfall has ONE advantage against RealPlume that i really, really love. And that is the RCS effects. They're just. Fabulous

[davide96]

On 6/13/2021 at 1:20 AM, Probus said:

Did you use CKAN.  It helps keep mods separate that are incompatible.  It probably has something to do with stock and restock waterfall being installed simultaneously (just a guess).  CKAN is here:

https://github.com/KSP-CKAN/CKAN/releases

You will need to edit module manager config files.  If you feel comfortable doing that, I can point you in the right direction.

I would like to do that, is there a mod that will help me to do that or a tutorial?

[Probus]

1 hour ago, davide96 said:

I would like to do that, is there a mod that will help me to do that or a tutorial?

I'm no moduemanager expert. I've just scanned the manual and asked on the forums. Can anyone point us to a good (video) tutorial for module manager if one exists?

Let's see, for waterfall what are the key variables. Thrusttransform is one

[Knight of St John]

Hi guys.
I wanted to let you know there is a new release with a couple of small changes:

• Skiff plume tweaked
• fixed the poodle dual nozzle variant plume clipping into the bell nozzles.
• deconflicted with ReStock:
  When you have ReStock installed, StockWaterfallEffects will now give the engines that are not remodeled by ReStock, the StockWaterfallEffects plume.

You'll have to install the newest version of restock and waterfallrestock for the deconflict to work. expect a release from Nertea very shortly.

Currently, this mod will however conflict with RealPlume. This will get fixed soon though, with the next RealPlume update. So in the meantime (give it a week or two) you'll have to uninstall RealPlume.

On 6/11/2021 at 1:43 PM, ShuttlePilot said:

Really good, but unfortunately RealPlume's plume expansion is more realistic. But I would really like to prefer this mod over that RealPlume, because my game doesn't stutter and the plume is so smooth. While RealPlume needs some serious optimization for systems and it's plumes don't look as great, they have that dirty janky look. Thanks for this stock config

-SP

I understand what you mean. when designing the plumes, I intentionally had my plumes expand lot higher in the atmosphere. This is because that way, you guys can enjoy the shock diamonds regime a lot longer.
if I didn't do this, the plume would expand a lot faster, and all those pretty shock cones I worked on for so long would only be visible close to sea level.

That said, I've been rethinking this, and might try to find a compromise between the two points of view here, and in my future designs, I'll certainly make the expansion a little more realistic.

[Knight of St John]

On 6/13/2021 at 1:03 AM, Hux790 said:

Hello, this is my first time installing the Waterfall mod. I've installed the waterfall mod, Stock waterfall effects mod and the Module Manager 4.1.4. But i am still having trouble with the plumes. My plumes don't show up at all despite the engine being on and the rocket rising. The menu on the side of the screen ( Not sure of the proper language here) that you click on to open the waterfall mod menu for the plumes to change the look of your plumes does not show up properly and the icon is just a white square and the no text shows up in the menu for the mod. This is my first mod install can someone please help me as i am not quiet sure if I've added the files incorrectly or something else.

Cheers,

You should just make it a habit to use CKAN for installing all your mods. it makes sure you have all the right stuff for you.
here's a tutorial:

 

[ShuttlePilot]

12 hours ago, Knight of St John said:

Hi guys.
I wanted to let you know there is a new release with a couple of small changes:

• Skiff plume tweaked
• fixed the poodle dual nozzle variant plume clipping into the bell nozzles.
• deconflicted with ReStock:
  When you have ReStock installed, StockWaterfallEffects will now give the engines that are not remodeled by ReStock, the StockWaterfallEffects plume.

You'll have to install the newest version of restock and waterfallrestock for the deconflict to work. expect a release from Nertea very shortly.

Currently, this mod will however conflict with RealPlume. This will get fixed soon though, with the next RealPlume update. So in the meantime (give it a week or two) you'll have to uninstall RealPlume.

I understand what you mean. when designing the plumes, I intentionally had my plumes expand lot higher in the atmosphere. This is because that way, you guys can enjoy the shock diamonds regime a lot longer.
if I didn't do this, the plume would expand a lot faster, and all those pretty shock cones I worked on for so long would only be visible close to sea level.

That said, I've been rethinking this, and might try to find a compromise between the two points of view here, and in my future designs, I'll certainly make the expansion a little more realistic.

Thanks for taking a look at that. That's what I was trying to say here. Would be nice to have a equal balance between realism and visuals.

Yeah, the Kerbin's atmosphere is pretty small. It would expand way too fast. I can't seem to think of the solution to this problem. Every way I think of it would modify the engines values or make the atmosphere higher like 115 km. But it would be better if it would be another mod that comes with integrated configs like that to Waterfall for the sake of realism.

[Probus]

1 hour ago, ShuttlePilot said:

Thanks for taking a look at that. That's what I was trying to say here. Would be nice to have a equal balance between realism and visuals.

Well I stand corrected @ShuttlePilot.  We really couldn't understand what you were trying to get at. You know they say:

"Communication with an engineer is only slightly more difficult than communication with the dead"  

[Al2Me6]

16 hours ago, Knight of St John said:

That said, I've been rethinking this, and might try to find a compromise between the two points of view here, and in my future designs, I'll certainly make the expansion a little more realistic.

Would it be more clear to design your plumes to be expansion-compatible with other plumes and offer an optional patch that reduces the expansion coefficient to make everything expand later?

[KerbMav]

17 hours ago, Knight of St John said:

I understand what you mean. when designing the plumes, I intentionally had my plumes expand lot higher in the atmosphere.

Did you make it look at altitude or atmosphere density?

[Knight of St John]

1 hour ago, Al2Me6 said:

Would it be more clear to design your plumes to be expansion-compatible with other plumes and offer an optional patch that reduces the expansion coefficient to make everything expand later?

Meh. I'm not that interested in doing those small addons for the handful of people actually using it.
 

30 minutes ago, KerbMav said:

Did you make it look at altitude or atmosphere density?

It follows the density. that's how waterfall works. can't really change that aspect of it. the only thing I can do is determine at what density I want a specific expansion.

[KerbMav]

29 minutes ago, Knight of St John said:

It follows the density. that's how waterfall works. can't really change that aspect of it. the only thing I can do is determine at what density I want a specific expansion.

All good, that is what I was hoping for.

(Let me guess, could have probably reread the first post?)

[Nertea]

18 hours ago, Knight of St John said:

• When you have ReStock installed, StockWaterfallEffects will now give the engines that are not remodeled by ReStock, the StockWaterfallEffects plume.

 

Just a note - this depends on a new release of WaterfallRestock which I hope to get to in the next few days. 

[davide96]

Is there anyone here that can help me to create a MM for KK spacex pack? 

Thanks

Davide

[Knight of St John]

22 hours ago, davide96 said:

Is there anyone here that can help me to create a MM for KK spacex pack? 

Thanks

Davide

if you want plumes for a mod, then you're probably on your own. i suggest you start by reading the documentation of waterfall to know how to use it.

also, if i'm correct, @Probus is making a community waterfall effects mod, which may or may not include this mod.

[Xemrael]

On 6/15/2021 at 11:29 PM, Knight of St John said:

Currently, this mod will however conflict with RealPlume. This will get fixed soon though, with the next RealPlume update. So in the meantime (give it a week or two) you'll have to uninstall RealPlume.

Is this still true if I don't use "Restock" and "WaterfallRestock"?

[Knight of St John]

5 hours ago, Xemrael said:

Is this still true if I don't use "Restock" and "WaterfallRestock"?

yep. until the next release of realplume, it will conflict with it.
But I believe a release of Realplume is imminentent