How Possible Is It To Pull A Cave Johnson?

[Spacescifi]

2 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

the problem with human experiments is that humans are terrible test experiments.

take a mouse. a mouse lives in a small cage on very small amounts of food. it makes no problems. it breeds fast, so you can get a lot of them for testing.

a man has nothing of that. a man is expensive to grow and expensive to keep. you want to make a test on how something affects men through generations, the test is going to take decades.

and the data you get is not even particularly informative

the pedants did human testing on their prisoners, and they never discovered anything useful. there's a reason for it

 

Testing like in Portal I agree is nonsensical, but that is for amusing those that play Portal.

On the other hand, when bioengineeing is as ridiculously advanced as the OP company, if baseline humans are being experimented on then likely the goal is to modify them directly.

Cyborg tech for example would easily go hand in hand with what bioengineering feats that they could pull off in baseline humans.

Although the really game changing stuff they could only grow in a lab as transhumans via exowombs and embyros.

A cyborg is still only human.

A transhuman is something...more. The DNA is different. Even their blood is differently colored.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Spacescifi

[kerbiloid]

Nature made the humans.
Global AI will make them equal.

[SunlitZelkova]

Acquiring all of the stuff they would need to do this would probably involve a lot of permits, which people will see and they will be found out. Even if they don't call it slavery, people will see it as such and protest, maybe even go as far as to attempt to attack facilities where experiments are taking place.

And then there are the reasons this isn't really possible in a technical sense mentioned by people.

In my opinion, I don't think something like this *will* ever happen. As in even if it were possible, which I can't confirm, I don't think anyone actually thinks it is good idea beyond fictional villains.

EDIT- To clarify, I mean something like this won't happen because someone thinking it is a good idea and pursuing it is highly unlikely, combined with all of the factors preventing it even if they tried.

Edited May 3, 2021 by SunlitZelkova
Clarification

[SOXBLOX]

8 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

A transhuman is something...more.

And this is where I have real problems. Do transhumans have different rights? Are they treated differently than baseline humans? And remember, these are people who have been forced, and had no say in, to be distinct from their fellow humans. 

Spoiler

And hopefully without violating content rules, another problem I see is in the inherent aesthetic of beauty. Humans seem to have a built-in, common standard of human attractiveness. Someone altered to look like, for an extreme example, a blobfish, might still have this standard built in. But no one will find a blobfish attractive, will they? I think that comes close to psychological torture for the altered individual.

 

[Spacescifi]

38 minutes ago, SOXBLOX said:

And this is where I have real problems. Do transhumans have different rights? Are they treated differently than baseline humans? And remember, these are people who have been forced, and had no say in, to be distinct from their fellow humans. 

  Hide contents

And hopefully without violating content rules, another problem I see is in the inherent aesthetic of beauty. Humans seem to have a built-in, common standard of human attractiveness. Someone altered to look like, for an extreme example, a blobfish, might still have this standard built in. But no one will find a blobfish attractive, will they? I think that comes close to psychological torture for the altered individual.

 

 

It all depends on what type they are making.

I guess the best way to describe these transhuman types is...more or less human.

Certain traits can be enhanced, modified or diminished.

Since breeding with one's own kind makes offspring, they are wired to be attracted to them naturally.

The less baseline humans resemble that, the less attractive humans will be.

 

Conversely if a transhuman looks just like a space elf, chances are they still might find baseline humans attractive.

[kerbiloid]

No, unlikely it's viable.

Furry won't ever become a mainstream.

[SOXBLOX]

2 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

Since breeding with one's own kind makes offspring, they are wired to be attracted to them naturally.

Can we guarantee that? And if these are designer mutants, can we ensure that there are similar mutants for each "variety"?

Blech. Sorry, these terms are really sickening to me. This is literally eugenics in new wineskins.

So yeah, I think that if anything like this were possible, all decent nations would put the kibosh on it faster than you could blink.

[Spacescifi]

34 minutes ago, SOXBLOX said:

Can we guarantee that? And if these are designer mutants, can we ensure that there are similar mutants for each "variety"?

Blech. Sorry, these terms are really sickening to me. This is literally eugenics in new wineskins.

So yeah, I think that if anything like this were possible, all decent nations would put the kibosh on it faster than you could blink.

 

Can the company guarantee that?

They either will or 'it' won't exist.

Remember how I said unsuccessful 'products' are not sold?

The company's primary reason for existing is twofold.

Science and profit.

If it won't sell and it does not function as intended....well, such never see the light of day to the public if they can help it.

Playing God requires a certain willingness to decide who will live and who won't....which, by the way, human gov already are used to doing...at least deciding that.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Spacescifi

[KSK]

Regardless of whether this set up is particularly realistic or not, I think it would make for a very interesting story. Probably a rather dark one given the kinds of issues that have been alluded to on this thread.

I mean, shady company with very deep pockets develops super science and uses that science to make morally questionable products? That's the broad outline for Jurassic Park right there, or quite a few of Michael Crichton's other books for that matter,  and lack of realism sure didn't hurt those.  

Edited May 4, 2021 by KSK

[Spacescifi]

4 hours ago, KSK said:

Regardless of whether this set up is particularly realistic or not, I think it would make for a very interesting story. Probably a rather dark one given the kinds of issues that have been alluded to on this thread.

I mean, shady company with very deep pockets develops super science and uses that science to make morally questionable products? That's the broad outline for Jurassic Park right there, or quite a few of Michael Crichton's other books for that matter,  and lack of realism sure didn't hurt those.  

 

I agree.

I just realized that hey, why travel LY away at FTL to meet a somewhat different humanoid when you can make them here and now?

No alien language barrier!

Even better, not all results will be negative.

The Alphas, the first viable race sold, are inherently smarter than baselibe humans and live a century without aging until their death day.

 

That alone is a game changer. These guys and gals look nearly human anyway, just off colored and an addon feature or two.

They could/would advance science by several factors within only a centuries time.

People may resent these guys and gals trying to take over, but no would deny they were smarter.

And theit lasting youth would have a huge impact as natural himans age and they don't.

Death birthday for Alphas would be a ticking timebomb tgey have to outrun to get stuff done before it occurs

Leading them at tinesto take drastic measures.

Give this few centuries and Earth won't even be the same.

It would be scifi.

[kerbiloid]

27 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

I just realized that hey, why travel LY away at FTL to meet a somewhat different humanoid when you can make them here and now?

At the proper places they may even come into contact first and ask for a cigarette, followed by money.

28 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

No alien language barrier!

Depends. The language itself looks same, but pronunciation may widely vary, and never in better direction.

32 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

The Alphas, the first viable race sold, are inherently smarter than baselibe humans and live a century without aging until their death day.

Because who wants to read about the old apes.

Btw, as there is no reason to die for the heroes, so specially trained people follow them on the roofs with a brick and a timer.

34 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

That alone is a game changer.

Yes, usually people are immortal.

***

Basically, the thread looks like "A furry paradise. How to convince others that it's viable."

 

[SOXBLOX]

35 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Because who wants to read about the old apes.

Exactly. If this were possible, it would reduce us to creatures which belong in a zoo. Not cool.

But seriously, what jobs would we do? Flip hamburgers?

[Spacescifi]

3 hours ago, SOXBLOX said:

Exactly. If this were possible, it would reduce us to creatures which belong in a zoo. Not cool.

But seriously, what jobs would we do? Flip hamburgers?

 

Never said it would go that way. You don't think 'we' would just let that happen do you?

 

Besides, other kinds of secondary races exist who WOULD have a problem with that. Not to mention that not even all Alphas want that.

 

Peaceful coexistence is a lot better than....

Spoiler

Earth is their home too.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Spacescifi

[kerbiloid]

Usually Alphas are called [High] Elves.

Others are goblins, orcs, gnomes, elves (in the low sense of word), etc.

Specific ones are centaurs, minotaurs, dryads, etc, but the forum rules restrict the descriptions of lower mythology.

Dwarves are somewhere in between, depends on the setting focus. They are like a Heavy Companion Cube, or a joker card.

So, we have such sci-fi for about 4k years, and probably it can be used as a starting point, like a half of human stories are stolen from Aristophanes and Aeschylus (as we're not sure, from whom did they do this themselves).

Just take any Ancient Greek poem and replace clothes with spacesuits or hazmats.
The names can stay same, just apply some replacement rules and random apostrophes to turn Achilles into Na'Khtaar.

Do not touch the amazons, though. The teen readers will skin you alive. They (ammies) are here for reasons.
Just use bikini armor instead of those ugly ancient robes made of boiled leather and covering everything from views arrows.

Centaurs and minotaurs may stay unchanged. Many writers do such way, it works.
Just you can replace the horse part with anything you want, including amoebas.

A very good thing are titans. Very good thing, yeah.
Rather than "gods", they help to bypass the religious side of the story (so both non-religious and highly-religious readers stay happy), and at the same time have some conditionally all-mighty beings which are not gods, but from any other pov not different from them.

Btw, you can call titans The First Ones, The Elders, or so, and they can become the Vorlons' and Shadows' predecessors or teachers.

Edited May 4, 2021 by kerbiloid

[wumpus]

2 hours ago, SOXBLOX said:

Exactly. If this were possible, it would reduce us to creatures which belong in a zoo. Not cool.

But seriously, what jobs would we do? Flip hamburgers?

Sanitize telephones.  Produce marketing goals.  Hand inspect circuit boards when ML imaging can already to it better.  This predates AI:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34466958-repurposed bovine waste-jobs

[Spacescifi]

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

Usually Alphas are called [High] Elves.

Others are goblins, orcs, gnomes, elves (in the low sense of word), etc.

Specific ones are centaurs, minotaurs, dryads, etc, but the forum rules restrict the descriptions of lower mythology.

Dwarves are somewhere in between, depends on the setting focus. They are like a Heavy Companion Cube, or a joker card.

So, we have such sci-fi for about 4k years, and probably it can be used as a starting point, like a half of human stories are stolen from Aristophanes and Aeschylus (as we're not sure, from whom did they do this themselves).

Just take any Ancient Greek poem and replace clothes with spacesuits or hazmats.
The names can stay same, just apply some replacement rules and random apostrophes to turn Achilles into Na'Khtaar.

Do not touch the amazons, though. The teen readers will skin you alive. They (ammies) are here for reasons.
Just use bikini armor instead of those ugly ancient robes made of boiled leather and covering everything from views arrows.

Centaurs and minotaurs may stay unchanged. Many writers do such way, it works.
Just you can replace the horse part with anything you want, including amoebas.

A very good thing are titans. Very good thing, yeah.
Rather than "gods", they help to bypass the religious side of the story (so both non-religious and highly-religious readers stay happy), and at the same time have some conditionally all-mighty beings which are not gods, but from any other pov not different from them.

Btw, you can call titans The First Ones, The Elders, or so, and they can become the Vorlons' and Shadows' predecessors or teachers.

 

 

Your jokes...while somewhat predictable, never cease to impress.

[cubinator]

On 5/3/2021 at 11:37 PM, kerbiloid said:

No, unlikely it's viable.

Furry won't ever become a mainstream.

And if it was possible, this would be the worst possible way in which to implement it.

[Spacescifi]

14 hours ago, cubinator said:

And if it was possible, this would be the worst possible way in which to implement it.

 

I presume you think the better way is to allow people to choose this option for their offspring rather than unilaterally choose to become the company 'gods' of several new humanoid species?

As matters are, a baseline human cannot be modified at the same level as the 'aliens' are.

That is why they start them off early in an exowomb from conception onward to modify them. It's more practical and possible at that stage than trying to modify a finished product .

Of course the 'better way' won't allow for the same level of company consolidation of power either....

[cubinator]

28 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

I presume you think the better way is to allow people to choose this option for their offspring rather than unilaterally choose to become the company 'gods' of several new humanoid species?

I think the better way is for people to choose this for themselves. Not even their own offspring. And, lo, it's far from conceivably possible.

[SOXBLOX]

36 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

That is why they start them off early in an exowomb from conception onward to modify them.

So, in other words, do biological experiments on other human beings? I'm fine with people modifying themselves, provided they don't inflict such deformities on future generations.

[Spacescifi]

37 minutes ago, cubinator said:

I think the better way is for people to choose this for themselves. Not even their own offspring. And, lo, it's far from conceivably possible.

 

It does not work on people....not well anyway.

 

It does not work on people....not well anyway.

 

And the CEO does not view the 'aliens' as deformities.

He views them as improving...transcending what mankind is capable of.

 

Granted there ARE niche humanoid races purely for profit motive, but the ones the CEO promotes the most are ones either specialize in increased intelligence, agility, strength, or endurance, etc.

 

They can even make races that can live in zero g space habitat environments without issue, though they still need to breathe, eat, sleep and drink.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Spacescifi

[kerbiloid]

26 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

And the CEO does not view the 'aliens' as deformities.

He views them as improving...transcending what mankind is capable of.

Spoiler

 

[cubinator]

3 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

And the CEO does not view the 'aliens' as deformities.

What does it matter what the CEO thinks? These beings he's playing with like toys are living, breathing people! What do THEY think? Do they want to be what they are? Are they free to walk away and pursue a life, any life, of their own? Or will they forever be boxed in to some subset of human activities, societal roles, and jobs by the modifications imposed on them without their consent? 

Humans aren't eusocial animals, and we already have enough trouble helping people who don't feel right about their bodies. This would only amplify that problem catastrophically.

[Spacescifi]

35 minutes ago, cubinator said:

What does it matter what the CEO thinks? These beings he's playing with like toys are living, breathing people! What do THEY think? Do they want to be what they are? Are they free to walk away and pursue a life, any life, of their own? Or will they forever be boxed in to some subset of human activities, societal roles, and jobs by the modifications imposed on them without their consent? 

Humans aren't eusocial animals, and we already have enough trouble helping people who don't feel right about their bodies. This would only amplify that problem catastrophically.

 

I don't think you understand.

Do cats and dogs have problems with how they look naturally?

Neither do these 'aliens'.

Free will for them is ALMOST human. Except for certain behaviors and beliefs that are rather, hard coded.

Alphas for example believe slavery....at least THEIR form of it is fine. Namely where THEY choose their master and the master is obligated to look after their welfare for life.

Picky and stubborn as they are...it takes years before they settle on their personal master anyway LOL.

Some races have quirky behavior in part derived from animals...by popular demand.

The CEO never did order catgirls, although he did order a close substitute to appease demand. They lack tails or cat ears, but behaviorally they definitely have some cat traits mixed with human ones.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Spacescifi

[cubinator]

1 hour ago, Spacescifi said:

Neither do these 'aliens'.

If you can make that happen, go right ahead. I believe we wouldn't know how to do that for a long time, even as other changes became possible. In fact, I believe it would be one of the last things we ever figure out how to do along these lines. So I think early stages of this research would be most unethical, rendering the later "everyone is happy" version not worth the monstrous practices required to achieve it.