Im Normal and This is My Statement

[Hiatsu2k8]

Listen, ever since .17 came out people have been talking about calculators, and ejection, insertion points, and all kinds of angles and blah blah blah! I'm so tired of hearing all the technical stuff. I have an 11 month old daughter and a wife, that I already worry about insertion with, and I have no time to write scripts or deal with calculus, trigonometry, angles, ejection, PLANETARY insertion points, etc.... PLEASE PEOPLE, there has got to be a better way. I challenge all you geniuses, rocket scientists, NASA employees, programmers, GOD, and especially the developers themselves to help all us normal people!!!

[Kosmo-not]

I guess you could wait for mechjeb to catch up.

[Trebuchet-Launch]

Go, read, fly. I saw all the frustrated people who can't get out there and wrote a guide without math. Have fun.

[GOOMH]

well this still involves angles but you don't do any of the math, use this: http://ksp.olex.biz/ and pick up one of the protractor mods that give you a read out of your angles comparative to other planets. It's not as easy as wait for the moon to rise but no math or angle measuring required.

[Hiatsu2k8]

I would really like a more intuitive flight planning system. I can't do the math myself but I don't want something to take over all the flight like mechjeb. I like how it shows a rendezvous point with an interstellar body but there's too much space and too much guess work. I would really like a mod (or maybe in a future update) that would show a map of the system, creating a simulation inside a simulation. Showing how things would go for you while traveling in space. You would still have to make the course corrections and burn times yourself, and you would know your actually getting somewhere at the same time.

[Tim_Barrett]

I suggest just going into space and facing certain directions and try burning, and then look at the changes.

[spikeyhat09]

Its really not all that complicated. albeit, there is some more thinking involved vs the easy peasy mun/min mission, but seriously, a 6th grader could do it with this guide: http://ksp.olex.biz/. bookmark it. really helpful.

It includes a visual aid as to when/where to burn, and even a calculator that tells you everything you need to know.

when it gets down to it, all you need to know is 2 angles. thats it. two (2) angles. if you know how to use a protractor, then you can do it. If even that is too complicated, there is a mod that will tell you EVERYTHING: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/21111-PLUGIN-0-17-AdamKSP-Show-Phase-and-Ejection-Angle-v0-4?highlight=AdamKSP

[ddavis425]

I highly doubt that this is efficient, but if you don't want to worry about math, treat it like a rendezvous. Get your orbit to be identical to the planet's orbit, then raise/lower your AP/PE to speed up or slow down so you can catch up to it. Eventually you will get an encounter.

[bsalis]

The game seems to be missing that Mission Control Room feature. I would imagine that it will make visiting planets much easier when added. The same as Map View made getting to the Mun a whole lot easier.

However theres more value in adding the planets first. Also, the challenge of getting to the planets now will keep most players occupied until 0.18. If the planets are too much effort to get to now, then best to ignore them and wait until it gets easier.

[air805ronin]

Its really not all that complicated. albeit, there is some more thinking involved vs the easy peasy mun/min mission, but seriously, a 6th grader could do it with this guide: http://ksp.olex.biz/. bookmark it. really helpful.

It includes a visual aid as to when/where to burn, and even a calculator that tells you everything you need to know.

when it gets down to it, all you need to know is 2 angles. thats it. two (2) angles. if you know how to use a protractor, then you can do it. If even that is too complicated, there is a mod that will tell you EVERYTHING: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/21111-PLUGIN-0-17-AdamKSP-Show-Phase-and-Ejection-Angle-v0-4?highlight=AdamKSP

Spikeyhat speaks the truth. You don't need math when people have made calculators and there are mods to calculate the angles for you. A week after release and the modders have helped me put the protractor down. I use AdamKSP now because it saves me the effort to put the protractor up to the screen.

I understand that people want things to be easier, but you can only make interplanetary transfers so easy...

[trbinsc]

I'm 14, and I figured it out in about half an hour. It's not too hard, It's not like brain surgery or anything. Just look at http://ksp.olex.biz/, or some of the other helpful tutorials.

[Tauge]

It is rocket science, but rocket science gets a bum rap. Not as tricky as you are making it out to be. You can get close enough by simply eyeballing the angles, and using Olex's calculator. There's also a few mods that make it really easy, I've been using http://www.kerbal.net/mod.php?id=36 when I feel lazy. Then it's just wait for the numbers to get close and go.

[antiquark]

Just look at http://ksp.olex.biz/, or some of the other helpful tutorials.

What he said! Helpful hint: print out the images from that site onto regular paper, then you can hold them up against your monitor, and actually see through them a bit, to precisely align your orbits.

[air805ronin]

I really can't stress how awesome Olex's calculator is, and how easy it is to do with the AdamKSP mod. Check out the pic, AdamKSP is in the lower right corner.

The only hard part, for me, is hitting your ejection angle with a nuke engine. I had to start about 45 degrees early. I have always reached a planet using Olex's angles as a starting point.

Oh and I totally managed to map all of Duna, as a side note.

[BeefTenderloin]

OKAY.

Now, I completely understand the OP. He cannot be bothered doing long and hard calculations, and/or going through the process of holding a protractor up to the screen, or downloading software to do it.

So, here, take a guide from a 14 year old who also doesn't want to have to do calculations, etc.

Here we go!

STEP ONE:

Wait for your planet, and the target planet to reach position. If it's a supreme planet (Higher orbit), wait until the planet is about anywhere between 70 and 45 degrees behind you (Real science is hard.) If it is in a lower orbit, do the same, but take the angle off the target body.

STEP TWO:

If the target body is higher than you, launch at sunrise, and head straight up. Use your patched conics and adjust your orbit whilst in SOI of you launch body. I don't know why, but it feels more efficient. Take it as you will. Launch at sunset if the planet is lower.

STEP THREE:

Get your Apoapsis/Periapsis to roughly match the height of the target body's orbit.

CHECKPOINT:

Quicksave. You'll thank me if Cthulu decides it doesn't like you.

STEP FOUR:

Warp to the point on the target body's orbit, stop about 15~ minutes out from the point.

STEP FIVE:

Quicksave.

Burn prograde. Keep doing so, until you see an encounter. If you don't, quickload, and burn retrograde until you see the orbit.

STEP SIX: Standard capture, like the Mun (Burn retrograde until you reach orbit.)

And there you have it. An inefficient, slightly cheaty way of reaching other planets, written by a lazy 14 year old, for other lazy people.

Edited September 25, 2012 by BeefTenderloin
Finished it off.

[Cryphonus]

Listen, ever since .17 came out people have been talking about calculators, and ejection, insertion points, and all kinds of angles and blah blah blah! I'm so tired of hearing all the technical stuff. I have an 11 month old daughter and a wife, that I already worry about insertion with, and I have no time to write scripts or deal with calculus, trigonometry, angles, ejection, PLANETARY insertion points, etc.... PLEASE PEOPLE, there has got to be a better way. I challenge all you geniuses, rocket scientists, NASA employees, programmers, GOD, and especially the developers themselves to help all us normal people!!!

I am quite sure any mod developer can program such a mod, I just wrote 2-3 plugins and never released them even i can write that. It is just a matter of math and I assure you its not that complicated. You can even guess the planets estimated position just through experience.

[TouhouTorpedo]

Or, you could just eyeball the whole trajectory, and use quicksaves incase you screw up.

Then again, I've done courses in Astrodynamics, so... I would be able to eyeball it.

Rough idea how to do it -

Watch how fast the planets turn relative to each other

When you are traveling between them you'll go somewhere in the middle of that speed

Knowing you have to get the high point of your orbit to meet the target planet, guess where it would have to be when you start.

Start your mission at that time.

get in orbit. HIT F5 AND MAKE SURE IT QUICKSAVED.

when you've got a qaurter way or less to go in planetary orbit till you end up facing the direction you want to go in the solar system, thats the time to thrust.

Once you're on a trajectory out, F5 again.

Now use large thrust till you see a flash of the planetary encounter.

QUICKLOAD (F9)

Get near that point, then thrust carefully to make sure you make the encounter.

It may help to do small thrusts when part of the way.

To put it simply, quicksave, try things, quickload, try something else, until you get it right.

You can use "ALT" + ">" key to use physical time warp (as this isnt something I heard of before KSP 0.17) as that will save your sanity when using low thrust engines.

[_Aramchek_]

Or, you could just eyeball the whole trajectory, and use quicksaves incase you screw up.

Then again, I've done courses in Astrodynamics, so... I would be able to eyeball it.

I eyeball everything too, no courses necessary.

Using a similar method as you describe.You can al;so get in a slightly higher orbit than your target planet, circularize, then just slow down when you are close to the planet you want to go to. instant capture.

[BeefTenderloin]

Bump, finished the post.

[Znath]

I'm an engineer and even I don't go calculating my insertion points and exit velocities. That's work!

I probably spend a lot more time getting to Duna than some people because I don't wait for a specific window maybe.

The game for me is just for fun. Like it's fun to try to get to a geosync orbit maybe, or seeing how big of a satellite I can launch.

But in the end it's a game for fun. If I start complicating it, then it gets less fun.

It's great to make a big accomplishment though. Like don't get me wrong, I tried really hard to get to Duna. And when I made it back, I was excited as when I had beaten just about any games' bosses. I just didn't plot out my whole course of action beforehand. It was a lot of "ok lets match orbits and wait for them to match up" and reloading the game when I missed.

To me the biggest challenge of the game isn't matching an orbit, the landing, or anything like that.

It's building the craft and determining.

What do you need? What don't you need?

My Duna lander consisted of 5 fuel tanks, 1 nuke thruster, 2 big parachutes, 1 small one.

And it was able to return. I've seen bigger ones that didn't make it back.

[Markus Reese]

Do what I do and fly by the seat of my pants. Flying to anything and don't know the timing for orbit transfer? Do your transfer late so you cross orbit ahead of your target. While you are passed it's orbit, it will catch up and you capture planet or whatever on the return. Just make sure you get your orbit plane aligned right and it works every time. Heading to the inner planets, do the inverse arrive a bit late and pass it on the inside. I have never even added 2+2 ever in my life of playing ksp and can get most anywhere if I have the desire to make it. Before planets came out, all my landers were VTOL space planes made entirely by trial and error.

First get orbit. Then correct orbit, then just adjust orbit length until capture. That is why arriving early (outer) or late (inner) is beneficial. The map does all the work. When you do this, you can keep burning to increase catchup time until you capture on the return trajectory. Works every time if done right. Give a quicksave before your burn in case you were wrong. Also avoid burning too fast or you might miss a very tiny capture window. Sometimes it only blinks for a second on the map.

Again, I do it all by visual. Pass and return capture for any orbital body (or if possible such as minmus or other long range objects, fly counter orbit) Need to change your angle, all you have to do is wait until your orbit plane crosses the target orbit plane. Once that happens, burn perpendicular to your direction of travel while aligned to your orbit body horizon. The orbit will pivot on this axis until they align. Works every time if you have the fuel. No fancy calculators needed. Those are only needed if you want to maximize your efficency. I just make overkill rockets. I always arrive with fuel to spare.

[Frostiken]

Its really not all that complicated. albeit, there is some more thinking involved vs the easy peasy mun/min mission, but seriously, a 6th grader could do it with this guide: http://ksp.olex.biz/. bookmark it. really helpful.

It includes a visual aid as to when/where to burn, and even a calculator that tells you everything you need to know.

when it gets down to it, all you need to know is 2 angles. thats it. two (2) angles. if you know how to use a protractor, then you can do it. If even that is too complicated, there is a mod that will tell you EVERYTHING: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/21111-PLUGIN-0-17-AdamKSP-Show-Phase-and-Ejection-Angle-v0-4?highlight=AdamKSP

Except Duna is the easiest planet to get to, little more than an extension of a Mun transfer. Why? Because it's got the same eccentricity and inclination as Kerbin. Which is a luxury we don't have for every planet.

Having to deal with hacky third-party programs because the game doesn't tell me ****-all about my orbital parameters by default, or my phase angles, or whatever can be avoided if you want to just guesstimate a shot for Duna. However, try transferring to, say, Moho. Longitude of the ascending node? Normal and anti-normal? Yeah good luck doing that without plugins.

Also, things would be better if you could have a better warp feature. "Get the planet into the right position" is fine until you realize you have to sit there with 100,000x warp on for several minutes just watching the blips slowly rotate.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Frostiken

[Hiatsu2k8]

Except Duna is the easiest planet to get to, little more than an extension of a Mun transfer. Why? Because it's got the same eccentricity and inclination as Kerbin. Which is a luxury we don't have for every planet.

I was going to say that last night but didn't feel like it. It's easy to get to Duna, I already got there since all you have to do is burn hard for a while, it's just like the Mun. I'm so sick of doing the same "Mun Like" maneuvers and I don't want to start putting bases on the planets it's dumb (only because I already did it). Like I said I love the game, don't get me wrong, I hate building a ship, getting the stages just right, testing it, balancing it, double checking it, then getting out of Kerbin orbit, burning, waiting, then missing my rendezvous, or running out fuel, and then I have to start over just to deal with the same crap.

If there are planets there should be a better planning portion as well, the one in place now is junk for interplanetary travel.

[Khrissetti]

I'm looking forwards to doing the maths required for my first Eve transfer (I have a ship capable of making it) but I can understand people who don't want to learn a whole ream of maths.

KSP has to walk a tight line between fun rocket-flying and accurate space-sim. In the final release it would be good to have an option to turn on some sort of mission control where you can click which planet you want to visit and the map screen will tell you when to start burning.

I know people dislike having their hands held in KSP but I think it has to go along aiming for absolute beginners to spaceflight if it's going to sell. People simply won't buy it (apart from the likes of the Orbiter crowd) if they have to scribble a page of equations to get anywhere.

[colonel0sanders]

For getting to Jool/Duna, I really only look at the planetary phase angle. For the Ejection angle, I just get into a 100km orbit around kerbin and start burning at sunset. This works out to giving you a ejection angle of 149 degrees, which has been plenty close enough for me