Will there be a tech tree fix? Or a tech tree customization?

[Pthigrivi]

1 hour ago, t_v said:

On the contrary, planes should be unlocked later in the tech tree in order to stop people from using them in Kerbin SOI. I agree that planes are useful to transport stuff between surface bases and flying a plane can be much less time consuming than a sun-orbital hop for the player, especially because piloting a plane and landing it within a small area is much easier than landing something with much less aerodynamic control, thus allowing a player to progress more easily. Not a side hustle. Next, if players unlock all their plane parts quickly, they will only really be able to use them on Kerbin and then we get the problem of people using planes to fly around grinding for science. If the player already has the infrastructure to launch a plane to Duna when they get their plane tech, they are more likely to start using planes on other planets instead of using them as a side hustle. Basic plane parts should be unlocked sooner to allow players to get comfortable with the concept of flying one, but they should be severely limited to discourage biome grinding. 

The one other use planes could have before you've set up a colony on Duna or Laythe would be as a leg-up toward spaceplanes. Basic spaceplanes could be useful setting up and supplying an early LKO station, so potentially in that time when your initial interplanetary probes are en-route. Planes would just be building up that tech and learning to fly and land in preparation. I completely agree with you about grind around Kerbin though, which to me is more about limiting the amount of science thats available in KSOI generally. Maybe that requires limiting the number of biomes, or maybe there's some other mechanic that removes the incentive to do more than 3 terrestrial science missions from the outset. 

 

1 hour ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

That mimics the current system - which, again, has always seemed odd to me.  Like a 'gamification' or anachronism to the original game. 

It's a subjective thing, but in the end KSP is a game. It's a fictional world with little green people who want to go to space, so there's no real reason we need to go back and reenact the Heinkel He or sounding rockets. And we're only really splitting hairs over the first 2-3 missions. From a gameplay perspective the most important thing about that initial 20 minutes is that it introduces brand new players to the most basic concepts--understanding the interface and controls, how to steer, how science works, how to understand thrust, efficiency, staging, etc. Aerodynamics is a part of that which is why I think you could add planes in as early as your 3rd launch, but putting it first risks bogging players down in plane design and tricky landings before they've learned to just go up and down in an arc and deploy a parachute. Spending 20 minutes on 2 launches to get the basics out of the way seems a small ask of veteran players. They're likely to invest thousands of hours and those 20m are just there to get used to the new UI and discovery/science/research system. 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

Just now, Pthigrivi said:

KSP is a game... those 20m are just there to get used to the new UI and discovery/science/research system. 

Can't argue with that

 

Actually - I can.  This is a forum and I'm anxiously awaiting the release, so splitting hairs is a way to pass the time.

 

That said... I won't argue with that!

Edited February 7, 2022 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[Pthigrivi]

17 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Actually - I can.  This is a forum and I'm anxiously awaiting the release, so splitting hairs is a way to pass the time.

Oh if speculation and hair-splitting over matters that we don't have enough information to understand and are probably already decided anyway is what you're after then you've come to the right place!

[Chilkoot]

5 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

Oh if speculation and hair-splitting over matters that we don't have enough information to understand and are probably already decided anyway is what you're after then you've come to the right place!

Have you seen the Steam KSP2 forums?  'Tis a silly place...

[Scarecrow71]

22 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

and then I'm running too many missions to keep track of what is supposed to be doing what where, and then either overbuild or underbuild a mission to another planet and then stuff gets kind of hard (b/c I don't get the physics and can't math my way to success)... and then I kind of peter out for a while.

This reminds me of a thought I've had about KSP for a while now.  I used to play a lot of Civilization back in the day, and one of the best things in that game was the "Go To" command.  Do you have a bunch of troops all moving in different directions and you can't keep track with which one is going where or why half the time?  Right-click, select GoTo, click on the destination, and let the computer manage that troop's (or settlers, or whatever's) movement until they get to their destination.

In addition to that, I used to play a lot of old-school Railroad Tycoon.  One of the best commands in that game was "Wait until Loaded".  That's right - you get a train to wherever it is supposed to pick up cargo, and you set Wait Until Loaded so that it doesn't leave the station to its next destination until the train is fully loaded with cargo.  This, in conjunction with the concept of GoTo from Civilization, allowed you to build a train, set the station priority and destinations (in order, no less), and then have it not only do your automated bidding, but wait at each station until it had a full load of cargo before setting off on its next destination.

Why is that important?  Because I wish KSP implemented these concepts.  I love the early stages of the game where you are building and setting out at first, and then you get to build your first colony or space station or what-have-you.  And then you end up with a bunch of things all going on at once, and even setting alarms with KAC you can't keep them all straight.  I'd love it if, in KSP, you could just build a ship and then give it orders to follow and it did them without having to micro-manage the ship.  Need it to fly to the Mun, pick up some ore, run to the space station to get it refined, refuel and fly off to Duna to drop off the load of fuel, and then go back the Mun to do the same trip again?  Or do you need to shuttle passengers to/from some remote outpost on Dres?  What about, assuming you have the mods installed, picking up precious metals for funds generation?  Or building parts in space? 

Man, I wish that was in the game.  And I hope it makes its way into KSP2, at least as an option so those of us who want to use it can.  That actually sounds like a decent idea for a mod, now that I think about it.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

2 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Man, I wish that was in the game. 

You just reminded me of a feature - which I already had a workaround for: the ability to put 'notes' on ships/stations.

I'd get to a point where I'd start renaming ships 'Dock with Jeb's Pod' and 'Fuel truck for Minmus Outpost' and 'Minmus Outpost landing ship with probe and rover'

Be nice to have a small 'text' notes area.

[Scarecrow71]

30 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

You just reminded me of a feature - which I already had a workaround for: the ability to put 'notes' on ships/stations.

I'd get to a point where I'd start renaming ships 'Dock with Jeb's Pod' and 'Fuel truck for Minmus Outpost' and 'Minmus Outpost landing ship with probe and rover'

Be nice to have a small 'text' notes area.

Well, in the VAB I know there is a Description area right under the name of the ship.  I'm just not sure if it's accessible anywhere outside the VAB.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

26 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Well, in the VAB I know there is a Description area right under the name of the ship.  I'm just not sure if it's accessible anywhere outside the VAB.

Yeah - I don't know whether it is or not; never noticed it ingame.  What I did not like was that the game would auto-update my saved ships (if I loaded a saved ship and made any changes... it got saved to it.  Meaning I had to REMEMBER to rename my base craft "Mun Lifter" to "Mun Lifter with Payload" EVERY TIME before making changes.

(Wanna guess how often I remembered?  Hint: it's a non-zero number... but in that range).

[shdwlrd]

40 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Wanna guess how often I remembered?  Hint: it's a non-zero number... but in that range

You can count the number of times on one hand?

[Pthigrivi]

There’ve been some hints about a mission planner feature to help estimate dV and maybe plan for things like transfer windows. It be nice if those mission plans remained attached to craft after launch, though that might get complicated when modules start getting moved around and shuttled in complicated ways. I tend to build in a lot of modularity and reusability, so tugs and space station components end up in all kinds of weird places over time. I guess if you still had the ability to edit or scrap mission plans for each vessel? But what happens when two vessels with different mission-plans dock?

Edited February 8, 2022 by Pthigrivi

[Scarecrow71]

7 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

But what happens when two vessels with different mission-plans dock?

Either prioritization needs to be built in OR the game prompts for user input as to which one to follow?

[BigStar Aerospace]

At this point, I can't even read it all anymore, thanks everyone for stating your opinions on this topic, it will be important for when KSP 2 does come out that they hear our opinions on the very vital part in our exploration of the universe.

[Pthigrivi]

37 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Either prioritization needs to be built in OR the game prompts for user input as to which one to follow?

Or like it tracks by subassembly?

25 minutes ago, BigStar Aerospace said:

At this point, I can't even read it all anymore, thanks everyone for stating your opinions on this topic, it will be important for when KSP 2 does come out that they hear our opinions on the very vital part in our exploration of the universe.

Truth be told they’ve probably decided already, but we all like to speculate anyway. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Pthigrivi

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

1 hour ago, Pthigrivi said:

decided already

Yeah - they should be WAY past the point of 'skimming the forums for good ideas.'.

Frankly, if they're going to hit the 'sometime in 2022' thing they need to be wrapping up problems rather than potentially creating new ones!