FPS isn't the issue- interested in discussion

[Basto]

Hoenstly... the thing I found most frustrating was seeing that they were live streaming all day rather than doing damage control... it's like they were taking a victory lap before the race even started...  I won't be seeking a refund unless we go more than a month without significant fixes to many of the game breaking bugs and changes to the clunky and at times unusable UI.  And I agree, FPS should be much further down the priority list of things to address.  I would play this game at 5 FPS and be happy if the UI was functional and the game was not buggy, and changing some settings to medium and lowering my resolution addresses much of that pain and brings my fps to a reasonable level.  

[Kuszotke]

Let's take a look at Steam Early Access rules.

Nuff said.

[dr.phees]

Same for me. Closed the game after launching a rocket. Today I gave it another chance: It is slow, boring, includes very bad UI decisions and I prefer KSP 1 a lot. Everything feels big, clunky, takes up too much space and is always where I don't need it. (Yes, I am looking at you two, parts catalog and parts manager!)

Maybe the parts are just placeholders for a cool procedural parts system, similar to what they did with the wings, but somehow I doubt that.

I will give it a last chance for a while in a week or so, but I guess I will just begin a new KSP 1 game, this time it might be RSS as I have never played that mod.

[Rocket Farmer]

Hmmm.

I just haven’t had the same experience.  I’m used to a lot of bugs (played KSP from 2013 and am also playing Star Citizen).

Anyways I’m about 3 hours in as well  I’ve been around the Mun, played with SSTOs (breaking 70km) and a bit with ground vehicles.

Bugs I have seen so far:

1. One ground vehicle kinda danced from one side to the other after rolling.  Wasn’t quite right but it was a stock vehicle so meh.

2. One capsule on a parachute didn’t survive landing while I was fast forwarding.

3. At one point in space near sunrise I could kinda see a bit of the sun through the side of the planet.

4.  While near ground if you pan so the camera is in the ground you see ocean below the ground.

Thats it.  Nothing even close to game breaking at all.  I do have the privilege of playing 4k Ultra on a really good computer (4090, 13900, 64GB DDR5, Firecuda drive etc).  I have noticed my GPU running at 100% almost constantly if Kerbin is in view (Kerbin in view is 100% GPU 77 FPS, rotate to look at space and GPU drops to 63% and FPS is 155).

 

 

 

[Strawberry]

12 hours ago, VlonaldKerman said:

I've seen some others make an interesting point along these lines; seems relevant:

Usually AAA game devs pay QA testers to find bugs, etc., when a game is this early in development, the exception being indie studios who can't afford to do so. Intercept is not an indie studio- they are billed by T2. But, instead of paying QA testers, evidently, they're charging us to be QA testers. Not beta testers- there's a difference.

 

Lots of good points have been raised, please keep sharing your thoughts. It'll be interesting to see how intercept responds to all of this. I think the next week or two will be make or break for the game in more ways than one.

Its important to note that KSP2 has QA testers, the vibe I get is that development issues (we can only speculate what those are), lead to the game not being finished the time they expected, but take 2 forced them to release the game anyways. For the content creator interviews the devs seem more somber then normal, I think theyre as upset with the state of the game as us.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Strawberry

[Meecrob]

39 minutes ago, Basto said:

Hoenstly... the thing I found most frustrating was seeing that they were live streaming all day rather than doing damage control... it's like they were taking a victory lap before the race even started...

Yeah, I took a look in the thread about "stuff we like about KSP2" and found Nate:

"I'm just gonna camp out in this thread today. "

 

 

Nothing says "we are confident we can deliver on our promises" like only reading positive comments.

[mystik]

18 hours ago, VlonaldKerman said:

So, as a community, what should we do? I'm not trying to preach- I'm posing an honest, good-faith question. I can think of two scenarios, which dictate two different actions:

1) T2 is looking for high EA sales to justify continue funding the project. In this case, we should NOT refund the game, and try to give the dev team the benefit of the doubt that they haven't lost faith in the project.

LOL, this is just... WOW, my dude, for real?

OK, here it goes:

IT IS NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO SUPPORT A 6 BILLION  DOLLAR COMPANY.

THEY HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO WASTE. YOU DON'T NEED TO LINE THEIR POCKETS WITH UNDESERVED MONEY. 

Even, and I say this clear: EVEN IF KSP 2 GETS DROPPED.

Yo, what is wrong with the world? You may like KSP a lot, but if you're willing to accept anything, you will be given barely anything in return. This is some abusive relationship stuff right here.

If I work hard for my money to earn it, guess what, TAKE2 has to also work hard to earn it. You're just giving it away. I just don't understand.

KSP customers have to have some dignity, if they accept this kind of behavior from this company they will not get a good game, because why would they give you a good game if you're giving easy money?

I rather see KSP fail than support such travesty.

This is why we ABSOLUTELY CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS, my dude. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by mystik

[VlonaldKerman]

16 minutes ago, mystik said:

LOL, this is just... WOW, my dude, for real?

OK, here it goes:

IT IS NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO SUPPORT A 6 BILLION  DOLLAR COMPANY. THEY HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO WASTE. YOU DON'T NEED TO LINE THEIR POCKETS WITH UNDESERVED MONEY. 

Even, and I say this clear: EVEN IF KSP 2 GETS DROPPED.

Yo, what is wrong with the world? You may like KSP a lot, but if you're willing to accept anything, you will be given barely anything in return. This is some abusive relationship stuff right here.

If I work hard for my money to earn it, guess what, TAKE2 has to also work hard to earn it. You're just giving it away. I just don't understand.

KSP customers have to have some dignity, if they accept this kind of behavior from this company they will not get a good game, because why would they give you a good game if you're giving easy money?

I rather see KSP fail than support such nonsense.

This is why we ABSOLUTELY CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS, my dude. 

My post was not about supporting a billion dollar company. If it was, then I would be saying that we should unequivocally buy the game in large numbers. I am a consumer who wants to receive a product that, if it ever exists, I will value highly. I am talking about manipulating a multi billion dollar company using collective consumer bargaining to get what I want- the opposite of what you are trying to insinuate.

 

I word my posts carefully- please read them in their entirety before suggesting that I’m somehow irrationally in bed with T2. I would also be more amenable to your criticisms (invalid as they are) had you not insinuated that my attitude was somehow “what is wrong with the world… abusive relationship stuff… why we can’t have nice things.”

 

To summarize: we are largely in agreement. Please reread my post, and you will realize that.

[Coin]

16 minutes ago, VlonaldKerman said:

My post was not about supporting a billion dollar company. If it was, then I would be saying that we should unequivocally buy the game in large numbers. I am a consumer who wants to receive a product that, if it ever exists, I will value highly. I am talking about manipulating a multi billion dollar company using collective consumer bargaining to get what I want- the opposite of what you are trying to insinuate.

 

I word my posts carefully- please read them in their entirety before suggesting that I’m somehow irrationally in bed with T2. I would also be more amenable to your criticisms (invalid as they are) had you not insinuated that my attitude was somehow “what is wrong with the world… abusive relationship stuff… why we can’t have nice things.”

 

To summarize: we are largely in agreement. Please reread my post, and you will realize that.

For some reason a lot of people have forgotten that publishers look at sales numbers, and that by buying a game you are supporting the developers by giving them a sale. It's not as good or straightforward as paying an Indie dev directly, but it is what it is.

 

People around here acting as though buying the game isn't supporting the developers. It certainly is, and it's a big reason that I bought KSP 2. My impatience is another reason.

[tstein]

16 hours ago, Coin said:

For some reason a lot of people have forgotten that publishers look at sales numbers, and that by buying a game you are supporting the developers by giving them a sale. It's not as good or straightforward as paying an Indie dev directly, but it is what it is.

 

People around here acting as though buying the game isn't supporting the developers. It certainly is, and it's a big reason that I bought KSP 2. My impatience is another reason.

mm  It might not be.  Consider the following very  possible scenario..  the devs say "No no it is nto ready yet to be shown to public, it will be a disaster!" the publisher  responds " shut up dude, it all gonna be fine, players are stupid and they will buy even a pile or burning trash".   If you do buy the game you are supporting the PUBLISHER and you are mining the developers in this case.

[VlonaldKerman]

2 hours ago, tstein said:

mm  It might not be.  Consider the following very  possible scenario..  the devs say "No no it is nto ready yet to be shown to public, it will be a disaster!" the publisher  responds " shut up dude, it all gonna be fine, players are stupid and they will buy even a pile or burning trash".   If you do buy the game you are supporting the PUBLISHER and you are mining the developers in this case.

Yes- another possibility is that after numerous delays meaning more time and money expenditure for T2 they lost faith in the dev team and told them to release what they have, consequences be damned. Now their plan is to either continue to fund development but with a new fire pit underneath the dev team, or to cut funding entirely in the coming months/year.

Edited February 26, 2023 by VlonaldKerman
spelling

[Gorby1]

On 2/24/2023 at 6:22 PM, VlonaldKerman said:

My issue is not poor performance. It's not even bugs, or game-breaking bugs. I'm fine with bugs, truly. I was LOOKING FORWARD to finding and reporting bugs. My issue is this: the sheer number, frequency, and variety of game-breaking bugs present in this release make the game virtually unplayable.

THIS. I was thinking, "It's alright, as I see a bug here and there I'll note it and report later so I can keep playing".... no. The performance is fine but it seems like every other mouse click doesn't do what it's supposed to or, even worse, does something else.

[ZuluDoggy]

4 hours ago, Gorby1 said:

THIS. I was thinking, "It's alright, as I see a bug here and there I'll note it and report later so I can keep playing".... no. The performance is fine but it seems like every other mouse click doesn't do what it's supposed to or, even worse, does something else.

Exactly. I expected to find bugs in the game. I also expected that if I found one, I would try to repeat the actions/circumstances that caused it. But that becomes an impossible dream, as bugs seem to pile on top of bugs creating completely different result each time. For instance, pressing the "W" key to start a gravity turn causes the rocket to 'turn' to the north this time. [Revert to launchpad] Ok, I'll use the Q/E key to spin my rocket in an east-west alignment...and now for the 'W' key to start the gravity turn...what? Why is the rocket turning to point north again?  To heck with this, I guess I'll just go into a polar orbit this next time. [Revert to launchpad] Wait, what? Now the 'W' key has me turning to the northeast??? Fine, I'll just orbit to the NE then...time to stage the...why doesn't the spacebar or the 'GO' button do anything? (This was an actual scenario for me yesterday.) 

I've all but given up. When I read these forums and see that the game is (even mostly) playable, perhaps I'll try again.

[magnemoe]

On 2/25/2023 at 5:43 PM, Basto said:

Hoenstly... the thing I found most frustrating was seeing that they were live streaming all day rather than doing damage control... it's like they were taking a victory lap before the race even started...  I won't be seeking a refund unless we go more than a month without significant fixes to many of the game breaking bugs and changes to the clunky and at times unusable UI.  And I agree, FPS should be much further down the priority list of things to address.  I would play this game at 5 FPS and be happy if the UI was functional and the game was not buggy, and changing some settings to medium and lowering my resolution addresses much of that pain and brings my fps to a reasonable level.  

Now during the ESA pre launch event streaming it looked like it was fewer bugs than now. Matt Lowne is a good example, playing the retail version it looks like he has much more weird bugs than during the event. Yes he is more ambitious and experimental and play for longer. 

I also suspect is that KSP 2 don't like low frame rates, perhaps low frame rate create bugs as physic is not updated often enough and  Matt Lowne is playing in 4 K high and speeds up things in editing. KSP 1 did not mind low frame rates but know many games who get seriously bugged if lagy.

On 2/25/2023 at 5:43 PM, Basto said:

Hoenstly... the thing I found most frustrating was seeing that they were live streaming all day rather than doing damage control... it's like they were taking a victory lap before the race even started...  I won't be seeking a refund unless we go more than a month without significant fixes to many of the game breaking bugs and changes to the clunky and at times unusable UI.  And I agree, FPS should be much further down the priority list of things to address.  I would play this game at 5 FPS and be happy if the UI was functional and the game was not buggy, and changing some settings to medium and lowering my resolution addresses much of that pain and brings my fps to a reasonable level.  

But as I pointed out in my previous post the live streams had much fewer bugs. Yes the streams was more limited in scope than that people does now. But the main concern after them was performance first and lack of features second, then bugs as an 3rd. 
Now its looks like its bugs on top of bugs. 

[Coin]

11 hours ago, tstein said:

mm  It might not be.  Consider the following very  possible scenario..  the devs say "No no it is nto ready yet to be shown to public, it will be a disaster!" the publisher  responds " shut up dude, it all gonna be fine, players are stupid and they will buy even a pile or burning trash".   If you do buy the game you are supporting the PUBLISHER and you are mining the developers in this case.

This is completely incoherent

[Stephensan]

just a reminder the content creators testing before release only had a 1-2 day old compiled game, that got issues AFTER the fact when the content creators was playing the game..