Not super fond of the workspace vs ship name save system

[CiberX15]

So I think it's super cool that I can save workspaces and then merge them together. On the other hand I'm not super fond of the naming conventions. Like when I'm making a new save the workspace name always defaults to "new workspace" which would actually overwrite other workspaces if I don't manually rename it.  Plus 90% of the time I'm only working on one ship, so I don't need a separate workspace name. I guess I understand the need to have independent workspace names since a workspace can include multiple craft, but at the very least I'd like the workspace name to default to the currently selected ship if the work space hasn't been saved yet.

[Kim Hanson]

I'll go one step further and say the workspace concept is of no use to me as you describe it.  I'd rather split them into types.  For instance, launchers, landers, communications, etc.

[Anth]

Its obviously a system that isn't finished yet. It's made to have multiple craft's named differently within the same area but that isn't working yet.

I just call the craft and the workspace the same name when saving. 

[The Aziz]

12 hours ago, Kim Hanson said:

I'll go one step further and say the workspace concept is of no use to me as you describe it.  I'd rather split them into types.  For instance, launchers, landers, communications, etc.

You can do that, what's stopping you? Build an array of same purpose vehicles within one workspace. You may be asking "yes but how do I use my launcher that's in the other workspace without merging them?" The answer is simple, you can literally copypaste your ships. Pick your launcher, Ctrl c, load workspace with landers, ctrl v.

[Kim Hanson]

10 hours ago, The Aziz said:

You can do that, what's stopping you? Build an array of same purpose vehicles within one workspace. You may be asking "yes but how do I use my launcher that's in the other workspace without merging them?" The answer is simple, you can literally copypaste your ships. Pick your launcher, Ctrl c, load workspace with landers, ctrl v.

Actually I can't.  I am only able to have one Vessel, the latest one, in each Workspace.  The way you suggest is how I thought it would work but it doesn't-- at least it doesn't on my first day using Patch 1.  Combining launchers with payloads is no problem, works pretty much as you describe.

[pandaman]

I'm finding this confusing too.

To me it seems as if you save a 'Workspace'.  In which you have whatever assemblies and vehicles you want.  And these are what show in the 'open' menu.

What is the point of assigning a vehicle name too?  Especially as, by design,  workspaces are intended to contain multiple vehicles or assemblies anyway.

And why, when I open a Workspace does it only  give me the vehicle name and not the Workspace name?

So...

Why not save the Workspace as it is now and assign a name as desired.  Then have the ability to name each craft or assembly within it. 

Eg.  My workspace is called 'Mun Mission A' and contains three craft/subassemblies 'Mun X, Y and Z'

So it is named and saved as only as 'Mun Mission A'

[The Aziz]

52 minutes ago, pandaman said:

What is the point of assigning a vehicle name too? 

Launching directly from the launchpad, without touching VAB. There you see vehicle name, not workspace.

The idea behind this, I believe, was that you can save each vehicle under its own name, so you don't have to visit VAB to launch anything - something that was perfectly normal in KSP1 if you didn't need to make any modifications.

Trouble is, current implementation of the whole system is borked, because you can only have one vehicle name per workspace. Launching through launchpad only shows the last saved one. This needs to be fixed sooner or later, because the general idea is good, but needs a lot of work, and currently, as proven over and over, hard to understand to some people.

[pandaman]

14 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Launching directly from the launchpad, without touching VAB. There you see vehicle name, not workspace.

The idea behind this, I believe, was that you can save each vehicle under its own name, so you don't have to visit VAB to launch anything - something that was perfectly normal in KSP1 if you didn't need to make any modifications.

Trouble is, current implementation of the whole system is borked, because you can only have one vehicle name per workspace. Launching through launchpad only shows the last saved one. This needs to be fixed sooner or later, because the general idea is good, but needs a lot of work, and currently, as proven over and over, hard to understand to some people.

Ahh.  Now that makes sense.  Thanks.

It's obvious that aspect is still WiP, and needs some work.  But it is the kind of thing I expected to be a bit more sorted out, even in EA.

[Jason_25]

I think the KISS principle should be applied here and this naming system should be totally stripped out.

[Nuggzy]

On 3/17/2023 at 1:32 AM, Anth12 said:

Its obviously a system that isn't finished yet. It's made to have multiple craft's named differently within the same area but that isn't working yet.

I just call the craft and the workspace the same name when saving. 

That's what I do, it's the only safe way to be sure you are saving it and not overwriting something else atm. Pretty much like the rest of the VAB, they took a working system and majorly overcomplicated it.

[The Aziz]

It's not overcomplicated. It's not explained properly. 

[Bingmao]

I still don't get the purpose of saving Workspaces instead of Vehicles. The only reason I can think of is to save multiple subassemblies in one Workspace. For example Workspace "Apollo 11" with the seperate stages as subassemblies inside this workspace, so that you can reuse/merge subassemblies in other workspaces/projects.  But that is not how it works currently

I would prefer it that way:
Make it possible to name every subassembly in a workspace (default part name if there is a single part lying arround or "Subassembly_[xx]")
Then it would be helpful to show the current Workspace name and the name of the currently selected assembly on screen.  
And buttons to save/load Workspace and import assembly
like that:


Would that make sense?
 

[Kerbart]

On 3/18/2023 at 9:54 AM, The Aziz said:

The idea behind this, I believe, was that you can save each vehicle under its own name, so you don't have to visit VAB to launch anything - something that was perfectly normal in KSP1 if you didn't need to make any modifications.

Trouble is, current implementation of the whole system is borked, because you can only have one vehicle name per workspace.

By the time it’s implemented as intended people will be used to “one vessel per workspace” and oblivious to how it’s supposed to work. I’m usually not on the “after three years this is what they rooled out” fence, but this is one of those cases. It seems they did the hard part but never finished it.

With the way it currently works my “load vessel” dialog is littered with autosave workspaces that do very little.

[The Aziz]

3 hours ago, Bingmao said:

Make it possible to name every subassembly in a workspace

That's the idea that currently doesn't work, being either bugged or not implemented yet, it's logical

3 hours ago, Bingmao said:

The only reason I can think of is to save multiple subassemblies in one Workspace.

One of use cases is this. Or you can have unified lifter and a dozen of payloads in that workspace. (for example, base of your Saturn V and different upper stages, one for Apollo, one for Skylab)  Or a payload and a bunch of lifters for different destinations. Or bits of your space station that you can slap on top of premade lifter without worrying that you have to place a root part somewhere otherwise everything is ghost like it was in KSP1.