Few cool improvements of gameplay

[Lowi_Sace]

Just a few thinks I think would improve the game by a lot. This would add a lot in terms of possibilities withoud having to add a lot of parts

feul tanks: Just having the feul tanks be procedural in lengt would be very cool. It wouls also be nice if you could change the ratio feul/oxidiser (less oxidiser means more room for feul). Another nice improvement would be if you could also choose to what size the end adapts (for example LG feul tank with Mk2 end pr 4 engine mount) for easy transisioning between sizes. Having for every size of feul tank a normal (ruboster) tank, vacuum tank (looks like liquid hydrogen tankin KSP2,  and is lighter, but less stable) en droptank (side atachments, light and cheap) version would also be handy. Last nice option is being able to choose wich feul type you do in the tank. For liquid feul that would be hydrogen en methalox (and maybe later kerosine). Hydrogen is easyer to produce (only water needed) and methane easyer to store, so depending on place of colony other liquid feul can be used. Adding kerosine would also be nice since it would be logical jet engines running on it and it is one of the 3 most used feultypes.

 

Engines: being able to make more adjustments to liquid feul engines would be cool. Like being able for engines te let them run from Methalox or hydrolox (or even keralox). This will be very handy for future crafts with colonies (on moon there is unlikely to be a lot of carbon, so hydrogen better). Engine and feul tanks would not be able to just switch between feul types mid flight (select wich feul type for both in VAB). An other cool engine upgrade would be changable nozzles (maybe even procedural). Depending on te nozzle the engine works better a different pressures and also being able to intall a retractable nozzle like the nerv engine is already getting.

 

Solid rocked boosters: Have one solid rocked booster for de diameter s, m and l. The solid rocked booster is procedural in lengst and longer boosters have more feul. Also lower power booster makes it bur longer. With this you could really custamize solid rocked boosters for your space crafts. Also cool id Dolid rocked boosters have gimbal option

 

 

 

 

 

 

[K^2]

4 hours ago, Lowi_Sace said:

Just having the feul tanks be procedural in lengt would be very cool.

I completely fail to understand why they aren't. We have structural tubes that can be adjusted to the desired length. So in structural terms, we already have that. All it needs to do is also be able to hold fuel in proportion to available volume. There seems to be no reason not to have that from perspective of game design, tech, or assets. Everything is in place already, and all we get with the current system is less flexibility with more part clutter.

I hope this is just a temporary situation and they're going to replace the current tanks with procedural ones before the game goes final.

P.S. That goes for solids as well, yeah. It can make sense to go in fixed increments for either or both of these, rather than a continuous slider, but the lengths of fuel tanks and solid boosters should be adjustable.

Edited April 10, 2023 by K^2

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, K^2 said:

I completely fail to understand why they aren't.

It's because LEGOs, and also because engineering, and also because procedural parts are hard for newbies to understand, and also because it just doesn't fit the KSP theme, and also because I should just play Juno, and so on.

Edited April 10, 2023 by regex

[dr.phees]

9 minutes ago, regex said:

It's because LEGOs, and also because engineering, and also because procedural parts are hard for newbies to understand, and also because it just doesn't fit the KSP theme, and also because I should just play Juno, and so on.

These are just cheap excuses. If you think people are confused by them, enable them as a high-tier tank system. Juno does a lot of things right. Why should KSP not do that?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, dr.phees said:

Why should KSP not do that?

I agree. I was really looking forward to procedural tanks and I have no idea why they're not in the game.

[Superfluous J]

26 minutes ago, regex said:

I should just play Juno

If only the rest of Juno was any good

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Superfluous J said:

If only the rest of Juno was any good

Haven't touched it, but that's funny

[K^2]

3 hours ago, regex said:

It's because LEGOs, and also because engineering, and also because procedural parts are hard for newbies to understand, and also because it just doesn't fit the KSP theme

I think you mean it as sarcasm, but since yeah, there are people who make these exact arguments, that's why I started with procedural tubes. They already let you build a ship as if you were building with procedural fuel tanks - just without any fuel in them. Not to mention all the other procedural parts. The wings have been great and the preview of procedural radiators is promising of more procedural parts being added.

So the ship has sailed on all of these arguments KSP2 isn't that kind of a game. It clearly expects you to adjust some parts to fit your rocket. And at that point, fuel tanks not being one of these part types is just strange.

[pandaman]

I really don't understand why fuel tanks aren't adjustable length either.  Same for the structural girder type segments.

But, we've been over and around this one for years.  So let's see....

[Gargamel]

Moved to suggestions. 

[dr.phees]

4 hours ago, pandaman said:

I really don't understand why fuel tanks aren't adjustable length either.  Same for the structural girder type segments.

But, we've been over and around this one for years.  So let's see....

Yep. Procedural parts would really have been KSP 2.0.

Maybe they can still get around to it, I mean, it is still in alpha, right? They want our input and maybe listen to it.

Also, procedural tanks would help to reduce part count in the end.

[pandaman]

27 minutes ago, dr.phees said:

 

Also, procedural tanks would help to reduce part count in the end.

Just as several others have been saying.  This is exactly why I see this could be a huge thing for building large ships.  As your agency's 'tech' improves you can unlock longer variants of what is already in the parts list (to reflect improvements in design and materials), perhaps with limits in proportion to the part's cross section.

It doesn't limit options or creativity, but reduces part count and number of joints considerably.

[dr.phees]

It doesn't limit options or creativity, but reduces part count and number of joints considerably.

Exactly. And for all the LEGO-preferring players the default could be a procedural tank system that allows for stepwise size changes. Then, in the advanced settings (or via the tech tree), you could unlock continuous changes (and probably toggle that per part in the part's right click menu).

This would allow new players not to be overwhelmed, but allow seasoned players to build exactly to their needs.

Edit: Quick rant: I really don't get what the team behind KSP 2 thought was wanted as an improvement to KSP 1. All these ideas were out in the forums for years, all the mods were addressing so many of these things. What did they actually think people wanted? We have seen them dicking around with planes all the time, which is fine. I do that too. But in the end I want to be able to ship the cool ones to Eve or Laythe... Also, they like the procedural wings a lot. And rightfully so. Why didn#t they already realize that procedural tanks is the next thing to do? Why not allow us to use the fairing building procedure to actually form tanks to our needs? Why not really go for a KSP 2.0 instead of another KSP 1 with different graphics?

This is so frustrating! Aarrrrgh!!

Edited April 11, 2023 by dr.phees

[Lowi_Sace]

On 4/11/2023 at 12:06 PM, dr.phees said:

Yep. Procedural parts would really have been KSP 2.0.

Maybe they can still get around to it, I mean, it is still in alpha, right? They want our input and maybe listen to it.

Also, procedural tanks would help to reduce part count in the end.

Yes, but not only part count. It would also reduce the amount of searching for your feul tank. A lot of more feul types will be added in the future and we already have to do much scrolling for feul tanks. 

They should get some inspiration from juno. Custamizable parts just make the game perform better en let you build better crafts. 

 

I also am a big fan of choosing wich liquid feul type will be in the tank (hydrogen, methalox of kerosine) and being able to change oxidisor feul ratio (less oxidisor means more room for feul). It gives experienced players more ways to make specialized crafts and for the beginners they could leave keep the current system as optional 

On 4/11/2023 at 1:02 AM, K^2 said:

P.S. That goes for solids as well, yeah. It can make sense to go in fixed increments for either or both of these, rather than a continuous slider, but the lengths of fuel tanks and solid boosters should be adjustable.

could also be done for cargo bays, cones, solar panels and maybe even crew parts. 

 

Hope they did do that already and just add it with the procedural structural parts. Currently feels like they just coppied the parts

[dr.phees]

Yes, exactly. Current parts feel like version 1.50, embracing procedural parts would truly be 2.0 experience.