You promised us communication, where is it?

[Periple]

Just now, Meecrob said:

You don't get that they have said basically nothing...like isn't that why this thread was created?

I don’t think it’s true that they’re saying basically nothing, people ITT have pointed out things they have said.

My point is the opposite: I think right now there’s no point in trying to communicate. It’ll be badly received no matter what they say or how they say it. They need to show material progress on the game, and once they’ve had a solid roadmap update or two out, only then start talking. It won’t stop you complaining but it won’t be any worse, and it’s less effort for them!

I think a lot of you are just out for blood, waiting for them to say anything at all so you can tear into it!

[Meecrob]

I'm out for honesty, as I think the OP is too. Going radio silent is the online equivalent of avoiding eye contact in a conversation...

[Periple]

Just now, Meecrob said:

I'm out for honesty, as I think the OP is too. Going radio silent is the online equivalent of avoiding eye contact in a conversation...

Sometimes conversations just go nowhere. If that happens, the best thing for everybody is just walk away and try again later when the situation has changed and tempers have cooled!

[Meecrob]

I get what you mean, but that does not apply in a business relationship. This isn't some weekend hobby, this is a multimillion dollar game.

[Periple]

1 minute ago, Meecrob said:

I get what you mean, but that does not apply in a business relationship. This isn't some weekend hobby, this is a multimillion dollar game.

This isn't a business relationship any more than you having a business relationship with a supermarket where you buy your milk! 

[Meecrob]

And when I have a question about my milk, the supermarket can answer it, they don't give me some lame excuse like "oh, tempers are high that we gave you expired milk, lets talk about it later"

I'm done here. Mark me down, one for the "where the comms at?"

[Periple]

1 minute ago, Meecrob said:

And when I have a question about my milk, the supermarket can answer it, they don't give me some lame excuse like "oh, tempers are high that we gave you expired milk, lets talk about it later"

Just like Steam can give you a refund if the game you bought was sour!

[Meecrob]

Seriously? The fact steam has a refund policy in no way makes up for anything about this game.

I don't think we are getting anywhere. I wanna go watch a video and not think about this game.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Meecrob

[Periple]

1 minute ago, Meecrob said:

Seriously? The fact steam has a refund policy in no way makes up for anything about this game.

Yes seriously! Our relationship with IG/PD/T2 is that of a consumer. That means we're entitled to consumer protection as defined in various laws and terms of service. Anything beyond that is up to them!

We can have opinions about what they ought to be doing to repair their customer relationships with the fanbase, but we're not entitled to anything at all! And my opinion is that their best strategy is to sit down, shut up, and make the best game they can. If they manage that and push out a few solid updates, then they can start talking again. It's totally legitimate to disagree with this opinion (IG clearly is, they're communicating WAY more than I would in their position!) but it really is totally up to them!

[WelshSteW]

 

Am I right in thinking that although the next update will have science parts, it's not going to have science mode?

We're just getting the parts, no tech tree, no new game mode... ?

 

 

[Periple]

4 minutes ago, WelshSteW said:

Am I right in thinking that although the next update will have science parts, it's not going to have science mode?

We're just getting the parts, no tech tree, no new game mode... ?

All they've said about it is that it will have some unspecified new features and it will upgrade to a newer Unity version. They haven't said anything about science parts. 

I would be extremely surprised if it includes science mode just from the version number — I think the science mode update will be 0.2.0 rather than 0.1.x.

[WelshSteW]

 

They've said we're getting science parts, I'm like 93% certain. Just wondered about the other stuff because I too would be (very pleasantly) surprised if it was anything more than parts.

 

[VlonaldKerman]

29 minutes ago, Periple said:

This isn't a business relationship any more than you having a business relationship with a supermarket where you buy your milk! 

No- it’s like you spent $50 for a months supply of milk only to find that they are out of stock for the foreseeable future.

In that scenario you are expecting something from the supermarket.

[cocoscacao]

1 minute ago, WelshSteW said:

I'm like 93% certain

That's a very precise percentage. Especially when it represents uncertainty

[WelshSteW]

 

Maybe I read too much into it, actually, but this was the quote that made me think science parts were coming -

  

On 9/8/2023 at 6:59 PM, Nertea said:

Answers to some questions we had to skip over during the AMA but I still wanted to get to:

...

Filip Hudak

What are next parts that are comming into the game?
Science parts! But also those gridfins we teased a while ago should appear.

...

 

 

I guess that just because they're next, doesn't mean they're in THIS update

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by WelshSteW

[Periple]

1 minute ago, VlonaldKerman said:

No- it’s like you spent $50 for a months supply of milk only to find that they are out of stock for the foreseeable future.

But you didn't! You spent $50 on a season ticket to the dairy to see cheese being made and to try the cheese before it's matured and ready to go into the supermarket. The dairy would've given you a refund if you decided you didn't like what you saw or tasted after the first visit!

Also, MOO!

[VlonaldKerman]

42 minutes ago, Periple said:

But you didn't! You spent $50 on a season ticket to the dairy to see cheese being made and to try the cheese before it's matured and ready to go into the supermarket. The dairy would've given you a refund if you decided you didn't like what you saw or tasted after the first visit!

Also, MOO!

I’m the dairy analogy, I think it was advertised that there would be some substantial cheese off the bat. But that has already been litigated.

MOOOO!!!

[Mutex]

49 minutes ago, WelshSteW said:

 

Maybe I read too much into it, actually, but this was the quote that made me think science parts were coming -

  

 

I guess that just because they're next, doesn't mean they're in THIS update

 

AFAIK, the next update, 0.1.5, will have bug fixes and some unspecified new feature/functionality. Speculation is that this functionality will be the thermal system, or at least the re-entry heating visual effects.

Science mode isn't until version 0.2.0, and the presumption is the science parts will be part of that update. Chris Adderley's comment there would therefore imply there won't be any new parts in 0.1.5.

[cocoscacao]

3 minutes ago, Mutex said:

there won't be any new parts in 0.1.5.

Except very maybe grid fins

[Spicat]

1 hour ago, VlonaldKerman said:

No- it’s like you spent $50 for a months supply of milk only to find that they are out of stock for the foreseeable future.

In that scenario you are expecting something from the supermarket.

No, you paid for the game as is, they don’t owe you future updates.

it’s clearly written in a warning just above the button for buying the game:

People should stop buying things on promises, I’m still shocked by the amount of recent games preorder.

[Pthigrivi]

I do think through a number of comments we have a general idea how science will work. There will be a number of experiment parts that function a bit differently from KSP1. There will be a comparable number of experiments to KSP1 but there will be a greater diversity of function. Some will need time, some will need specific locations, some will only work with certain resources. As with KSP1 these experiments will generate science points that can be spent on the tech tree. There will also be spelled out missions which generate science points. Exactly what experiments we’ll see, what the mission tree and tech organization will will look like is still unknown but we’ll likely find out close to 0.2. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Pthigrivi

[PDCWolf]

On 9/14/2023 at 10:52 AM, RayneCloud said:

Gotta say, I'm pretty disappointed at the moment at the near radio silence, or the complete lack of communication. The dev chats are fun and all, but where are the weekly posts from Nate? Why are we back to having to look at Discord and getting nothing here? Can we have something please? About 1.5? Or am I just not seeing the communication that was promised? Can we have something please?

Disappointed doesn't even start to describe it, specially when it took a lot to correct them from their initial course telling us everything was fine and dandy whilst 7 months later the game is still in the same place but barely more playable. They keep to discord because that's the only place where criticism is not allowed and engaging in it means their pets get a free pass to harass you. Even if you're not in the discord they get a free pass to make up stuff about you to make you look bad. That's why they feel free to throw bones in the discord for users to play fetch like dogs.

They've also completely abandoned Reddit after failing to gaslight them, resorting to insulting the community and then going silent.

The forum is the most current one in the list of abandoned places. They'll probably prop up another dev to answer softball completely useless questions about their hopes and dreams and what pizza topping they like on an AMA in like a month and that's the only piece of garbage you're expected to digest as communication.

By the way, since you say the P word. Remember the "rules" people play by here:

1. If there's no literal "we promise", then it's not a promise.
2. Whatever they say can change at any point, no reason needed. It doesn't count as a lie, just the truth changing.
3. You're supposed to take anything they say as an unquestionable truth, even if the game comes apart at the seams and they take 7 to 12 months for the first content update.

 

[RocketRockington]

56 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

• If there's no literal "we promise", then it's not a promise.
• Whatever they say can change at any point, no reason needed. It doesn't count as a lie, just the truth changing.
• You're supposed to take anything they say as an unquestionable truth, even if the game comes apart at the seams and they take 7 to 12 months for the first content update.

Truth.  Though this is primarily enforced by 2-3 people who post more than everyone else combined - which is enough to prompt a shut down any thread they don't like as argumentative.

[RocketRockington]

4 hours ago, Periple said:

My point is the opposite: I think right now there’s no point in trying to communicate. It’ll be badly received no matter what they say or how they say it.

I actually agree with you here,.more comms without substance won't help anything... But it's 100% understandable after they said they'd be better about communicating honestly and clearly, per Dakota, that the users would expect that and it's a bad look to back track on it already. 

Whereas blaming the consumer over and over for their reasonable expectations and their predictable and reasonable reaction to the state of the game is just abhorrent to me, I can't understand why that's the position some people are still taking after it's become so clear how far off the expectations the company set for the game are from the product they provided.

[Wahnfried]

@Spicat

Steam Roles for EA
Overview
What is Early Access?
Steam Early Access enables you to sell your game on Steam while it is still being developed, and provide context to customers that a product should be considered "unfinished." Early Access is a place for games that are in a playable alpha or beta state, are worth the current value of the playable build, and that you plan to continue to develop for release.

Releasing a game in Early Access helps set context for prospective customers and provides them with information about your plans and goals before a "final" release.
What Early Access Is Not
Early Access is not a way to crowdfund development of your product.
You should not use Early Access solely to fund development. If you are counting on selling a specific number of units to complete your game, then you need to think carefully about what it would mean for you or your team if you don't sell that many units. Are you willing to continue developing the game without any sales? Are you willing to seek other forms of investment?

Early Access is not a pre-purchase
Early Access is not meant to be a form of pre-purchase, but a tool to get your game in front of Steam users and gather feedback while finishing your game.

Early Access titles must deliver a playable game or usable software to the customer at the time of purchase, while pre-purchase games are delivered at a future date. Read more about Pre-Purchasing on Steam.