[1.12.5] Sterling Systems v0.4.9 [Sep 22, 2024]

[Manul]

On 8/12/2024 at 10:56 AM, Tecorian said:

When i attach the HeatShields on to the fuselage of MK3, i gain unexpected and heavy torque to the whole vessel.

Does it actually spin out of control in flight or it's just KER indicating a ridiculous amount of torque?

[Tecorian]

2 minutes ago, Manul said:

Does it actually spin out of control in flight or it's just KER indicating a ridiculous amount of torque?

KER shows in my particular case about 200-250 of torque.

Just tried out the hint from @JadeOfMaar, result is reducing in to less than 20, which in can handle.

I have only once tried to reentry whith this huge amount of torque.

In space with shutting down the main engine, ships spinns around, with heavy vernier-thrusters it is possible to gain control again.

And causes funny loops and spinning around while heatentry, below 10.000 m the spaceplane was recoverable.

But i was not able to hit the runway

[Manul]

29 minutes ago, Tecorian said:

And causes funny loops and spinning around while heatentry, below 10.000 m the spaceplane was recoverable.

This is an issue with the horizontal CoM misalignment rather than vertical. There is not so much lift in the upper atmosphere but there is still a lot of drag. And the center of drag is too close to the CoM or maybe it is actually in front of CoM, there is not enough lift so the CoL placement can't compensate this.  Try moving the CoM forward or moving draggy parts rearwards. And make sure that the dry CoM doesn't move backwards.

In my experience spaceplanes don't care much about their CoM shifted vertically: driving a 15t rover inside the cargobay and docking it to the floor is okay as long as CoM isn't shifted horizontally. Placing cargo containers on the floor doesn't cause any troubles either. What does cause spinning out of control is a 30t shuttle mounted on top of the spaceplane.

Edited August 13 by Manul

[Tecorian]

50 minutes ago, Manul said:

This is an issue with the horizontal CoM misalignment rather than vertical. There is not so much lift in the upper atmosphere but there is still a lot of drag. And the center of drag is too close to the CoM or maybe it is actually in front of CoM, there is not enough lift so the CoL placement can't compensate this.  Try moving the CoM forward or moving draggy parts rearwards. And make sure that the dry CoM doesn't move backwards.

In my experience spaceplanes don't care much about their CoM shifted vertically: driving a 15t rover inside the cargobay and docking it to the floor is okay as long as CoM isn't shifted horizontally. Placing cargo containers on the floor doesn't cause any troubles either. What does cause spinning out of control is a 30t shuttle mounted on top of the spaceplane.

i think, this is not a theme of misalignment, cause without the heatshields all my spacesplanes working very well without spinning.

So generally  i have the best expierence, when i do it like here:

CoM and Col nearly won´t move, when i release the freight in Orbit.

But i discovered just now, when i set the wings in a slightly upper angle to the body (about 4-5°), i don´t need any counterweights for the heatshields.

The spaceship still wobbles slightly around, but will remain  stable while reentry.

Again, the main reason for me to use this mod is not, that i need a heatshield, but it is looking more realistic, when to lower body is tiled and black

Edited August 13 by Tecorian

[Manul]

2 minutes ago, Tecorian said:

But i discovered just now, when i set the wings in a slightly upper angle to the body (about 4-5°), i don´t need any counterweights for the heatshields.

So it's a drag issue rather than weight issue. By angling wings and giving them a higher angle of attack you shift the center of drag to the rear because wings create more drag at high angle of attack and compensate for a draggy cockpit and a draggy heatshield.

The center of drag is a scourge of all spaceplane builders because you never know where it is and where it will be at a certain angle of attack. Each part has it's own drag(AoA) graph depending on it's shape, for some pats it growth is linear for some parts it skyrockets 100x - 500x after a certain angle. Mk2, 3 and OPT fuselages and cockpits are draggy as hell at high angles, so they can dramatically shift the center of drag at high AoA, especially the OPT parts. The general rule of thumb for OPT spaceplane  is simple: spaceshuttle or concorde style designs when there is more fuselage parts in front of CoM and less parts behind tend to shift center of drag forward and spin out of control. Skylon-style with CoM placement in the middle of fuselage is perfectly stable but harder to build.

[JadeOfMaar]

@Manul I'm suspecting that the improvised shields on that shiny space plane are made from PWings and the forward ones have pitch rotation as well as roll rotation, trying to fit the cockpit. That would make for odd deflection forces which would give @Tecorian even more of a hard time.

[aviin]

While in the process of making a personal patch to swap out Sterling Systems' uses of DepletedUranium for DepletedFuel, I discovered what I presume to be a bug.

The Sterling Sub-Critical Multiplier Reactor, whether System Heat is present or not, has DepletedUranium as an INPUT_RESOURCE rather than an OUTPUT_RESOURCE in ModuleResourceConverter (or ModuleSystemHeatConverter, as the case may be).

Other than that, I'm loving the things this mod has.  Fantastic stuff.

[JadeOfMaar]

@aviin That is definitely a bug. Thanks for spotting!

Thanks for mentioning DepletedFuel. I just noticed that engines are set to produce that but reactors are set to produce DepletedUranium. I'm ensuring that everything goes to DepletedFuel.)

[aviin]

The whole DepletedFuel vs. DepletedUranium thing is kind of frustrating.  Ages ago, the first mod I ever installed was @Angelo Kerman's Buffalo mod (which for the uninformed, includes WildBlueTools).  A bit of digging around in the files clued me into the CRP and then I was off to the races installing a ton of mods because how could I resist adding so many more things to do out in the Kerbol system?  Then I started noticing some stuff using DepletedFuel vs. DepletedUranium.  That led me to looking deeper into the CRP to compare the stats of DepletedFuel and DepletedUranium, only to realize they were essentially the same resource with two different names.  Throw in ClassicStock's NuclearWaste and you've got another that is almost identical and I wouldn't be shocked if there are others out there.  And don't get me started about the CRP telling me DepletedUranium is "NFT curated" but NFT uses DepletedFuel.  These sorts of situations abound throughout mods and resources.  I tried for a long time to justify it in my head by saying well some manufacturers use different processes so production chains will vary based on that, different resources with identical uses and densities might be in different forms (ex. fuel rods vs. fuel pellets).  And over the years, opinions shift, personal opinions vary, etc.  But the whole Apollo 13 filter shape incompatibility (link) always sat in the back of my head when it came to resources themselves.  And you only have to Mark Watney yourself out of a situation a few times before enough is enough.  Thus, over the years I've amassed a pretty large number of custom MM patches to help ease craft design and avoid frustrating situations.  I learned the ins and outs of MM specifically because of the DepletedFuel/DepletedUranium situation.

But that's enough ranting from me.  It isn't even really a rant because I feel like I am in absolutely no position to complain at all about any of the wonderful modders out there who spend their time giving all of us all of these fantastic things, expanding this game lightyears beyond what we purchased.  The talent, skill, dedication, and generosity in this community is immeasurable and inspiring.

[JadeOfMaar]

@aviin [The rant] was nice. I can relate. A similar kind of thing is part of what got me into using MM and making things happen.

[JadeOfMaar]

Release 0.4.0.2

Fixes

• Updated Sterling Electric:
  • Fixed reactors producing DepletedUranium when they should be producing DepletedFuel. @aviin
  • Fixed SCM reactor treating DepletedUranium as an input. @aviin
• Updated Sterling Tankage:
  • Added missing 'Jettison Contents' button to the Ore tanks.
  • Fixed tank ratios of D+3He. @Caliperstorm
  • Updated Simple Construction detection. Should stop the B9PS fatal error (MetalOre resource not defined) caused by that mod. @EthanKerbman
• Updated Sterling Thermals:
  • Fixed error assigning added mass and cost to film radiator subtypes. (PR from @arbsoup)
  • Fixed calculation error behind displayed cooling powers of some film radiators. (PR from @arbsoup)
  • Reduced waste heat generation of thermal reactors further. As a fraction it was tiny but as absolute values it was still too much.
  • Removed patch for Kerbalism Shielding resource for super heavy shield. Kerbalism profile problems make it a bad idea to keep this feature.

[Ariel Kerman]

11 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Release 0.4.0.2

• • Removed patch for Kerbalism Shielding resource for super heavy shield. Kerbalism profile problems make it a bad idea to keep this feature.

At least we still have the conical one, right?  

....right?  

[JadeOfMaar]

1 hour ago, Ariel Kerman said:

At least we still have the conical one, right?  

....right?  

The conical shadow shield loses its patch too. Same cfg file affected both parts and leads into the same problem.

[Ariel Kerman]

14 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

The conical shadow shield loses its patch too. Same cfg file affected both parts and leads into the same problem.

*Padme's suffering noises*

BTW can this issue be solved in the future so we can have actual radiation shields?

[JadeOfMaar]

2 hours ago, Ariel Kerman said:

*Padme's suffering noises*

BTW can this issue be solved in the future so we can have actual radiation shields?

Yes, something can be done about it. Personally, I would like for the Kerbalism mod authors to diagnose their stuff but more likely this mod will have to carry a copy of the resource definition.

[tokamak_tinkerer]

Does the compatibility with far future technologies include a way to reprocess the waste from salt water and pebble bed reactors (i know that their fuel can be produced by the mod's nuclear fordge). Also, how do you obtain CO2 for the nerv engines

[JadeOfMaar]

14 hours ago, tokamak_tinkerer said:

Does the compatibility with far future technologies include a way to reprocess the waste from salt water and pebble bed reactors (i know that their fuel can be produced by the mod's nuclear fordge). Also, how do you obtain CO2 for the nerv engines

No. Sterling Systems doesn't add features to, or rely on other mods' parts. Sterling's own refinery suite is finally nearing release (I've just exported the models for all of this mod's own refineries. There are 20...) and will take care of itself.

For CO2 harvesting, choose between Rational Resources Parts (works standalone in case you need it so) which provides the MISPLACED series ram scoops for aircraft; or Stockalike Mining Extension (with ISRU integrations by Rational Resources Companion); or both.

[JadeOfMaar]

Circular Refineries

Sterling Systems' refinery suite is nearly here and it's about to flood your Utility tab.

These parts will use WBI OmniConverter features by default, choosing to avoid PAW spam by not doing things the old fashioned way and choosing to avoid me spinning another great web of B9PS dark magic configs.

The purpose of variant refineries is to step into deeper waters of resource chain gameplay for the chemists among us: Not the usual jack of all trades but masters of something. The variants:

• Generic: Handles the bulk of resource chains.
• Nuclear: Deals in all things radioactive. Its primary function is to produce or refresh Sterling's reactor fuels.
• Furnace: Deals in anything that involves metal, extreme heat and extreme voltages. Particular roles include EL smelter, RR Blacksmith furnace and Sterling metal fuel recharger.
• Phase Changer: Anything Gas <--> Liquid goes.
• Smasher: Handles anything produced under extreme or titanic pressure. Namely, FusionPellets.

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

14 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

These parts will use WBI OmniConverter features by default, choosing to avoid PAW spam by not doing things the old fashioned way and choosing to avoid me spinning another great web of B9PS dark magic configs.

Yum

14 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Phase Changer: Anything Gas <--> Liquid goes.

Does it come with RR support?

[The Dressian Exploder]

Do you plan to add VABOrganiser support to the mod?

[JadeOfMaar]

18 hours ago, KspNoobUsernameTaken said:

Does it come with RR support?

Yes, but I can't guarantee all the RR recipes will be available to Sterling's parts. Some just won't fit or belong, namely the fusion power mixes and fuel cell mixes.

13 hours ago, The Dressian Exploder said:

Do you plan to add VABOrganiser support to the mod?

Already done.

[JadeOfMaar]

Experimenting with recipes. The shown formula might change. VAB Organizer peeking.

Test vessel, solar thermal powered, eating 150 of 300 EC/s and producing 1.33 Fissile Fuel per sec.

[idiot]

nice update, i'd also like to ask about those diameter things on your parts in vab, what mod is it?

28 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Experimenting with recipes. The shown formula might change. VAB Organizer peeking.

Test vessel, solar thermal powered, eating 150 of 300 EC/s and producing 1.33 Fissile Fuel per sec.

 

nvm found out

[JadeOfMaar]

Printery

These fellows are SandCastle printers and EL drone workshops. They produce whatever the construction or maintenance resource is and spawn parts into your inventory.

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

One step closer to not needing Keridian Dynamics.

FWIW, I'd prefer these to come in a separate package from the rest of Sterling, maybe even a separate mod.