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Cannot create maneuver nodes with 0 deltaV [Map/OutOfFuelManeuverNode]


QuiescentRabbitt

Bug Report

Reported Version: v0.1.5 (latest) | Mods: none | Can replicate without mods? Yes 
OS: Windows 10 | CPU: Ryzen 7 3700x | GPU: RTX 3080 Ti | RAMDDR4 16GB 3200Mhz

 

Current game behavior disables your ability to make maneuver nodes if it believes your ship to have no deltaV. This also can occur when you have plenty of fuel in the form of monopropellent, which the game doesn't actually calculate the deltaV for. It can also cause you issues if the deltaV calculation has an error and believes your ship has none, even though you can still burn fuel. This seems intentional on the surface, but is prone to causing lots of frustration. Even if it works exactly as intended, I could want to set up a node before refueling my ship to get an idea on the potential fuel cost.

How to replicate: Launch any ship in a configuration where the game detects you have no deltaV, and attempt to create a maneuver node. It will pop up an error.

 

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WhatsRCSanyway.PNG.874d71de9fcc38788f064839891b9efc.PNG

Edited by Spicat
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I have to agree that the decision by IG to remove the ability to create trajectories/maneuvers in excess of the current amount of fuel is a hindrance to gameplay.  A lot of us like to do a whole lot of testing of our craft before the actual mission we undertake, and we can't plan for appropriate maneuvers or burns when we reach the end of our fuel and the game simply stops letting us continue.  I agree we shouldn't be able to burn if we don't have enough fuel (or the engines simply cut off at that point).  But we should be able to at least create the node and see how much fuel we need.

I'll also put out there that there are times where the actual dV is 0 and even enabling the option for infinite fuel doesn't work.

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Reported Version: v0.1.5 (latest) | Mods: community fixes, microengineer, flight planner | Can replicate without mods? Yes 
OS: Windows 10 | CPU: i7-10870H | GPU: RTX 3070 | RAM16GB

I keep on running into crafts having their Delta V accidentally calculated as being 0, I've reported this as a seperate issue in the past, but an unfortunate side effect of this I've been running in to has been that the game completely locks you out from creating maneuver plans when your delta V is calculated  as 0, regardless of whether this is correct or not (as you can see in the screenshot, I cannot create a plan as the delta V reads 0, meanwhile all of the engines still have access to fuel).

I would like to request the devs make it possible to create maneuver plans regardless of delta V status so that I can actually use this feature to play the game regardless of whether or not the game glitches out on me when it comes to Delta V calculation problems. I really do not want to have to eyeball a bunch of interplanetary transfers if the game decides it wants to ignore my fuel.

 

Included is the craft file, I hope it helps work out what's causing the delta V problem.

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BOT.zip

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I would like to add this.  I sometimes build unusually configured craft with things like fuel tanks attached via radial decouplers.  The plan is to manually pump the fuel into some main tank and then jettison the empty tank(s).  The staging thing has no way of knowing what my intentions are which causes it to ignore alot of the fuel i still have.  This essentially prevents me from using the maneuver planner fully.

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Want to confirm that this issue is happening post For Science! update.  I've found that upper stages or combined stages after docking often report zero delta-V despite having fuel and allowing me to use it.  This then locks out maneuver nodes which is quite annoying when I know I have fuel and my stage is just stranded because I can't plan a way to get it back.

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I totally get it why it is not possible to make or extend a maneuver plan if you don't have enough fuel, and it was discussed often enough in the forum (i.e. accurate calculation of future path taking fuel consumption == mass reduction into account, could result in negative mass and totally wrong predicted orbit, if maneuver exceeds vessels capability)

But I would like to propose a button next to a maneuver node which can switch the node between the new accurate KSP2 mode and a "simulation"-mode (instant impulse maneuver, infinity fuel) like in KSP1.

Or even being able to switch the whole game to a simulation mode, like it is introduced in the tutorials with P.A.I.G.E. (with the blueish outlines), with maneuver nodes set to KSP1 functionality.

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I came up with a work around for the no stage / no delta-V issue when you have plenty of fuel for non-mono-prop engines.

You need to edit the Save Game json file (under C:\Users\<user>\AppData\LocalLow\Intercept Games\Kerbal Space Program 2\Saves\<savegame name>\).  Open the .json file in an editor, like Notepad++, and find the craft under

"assemblyName":  "Your Craft Name",

You will see "availableStages" empty and engine parts under "unassignedParts"

That's the problem.  You need to move the engines from "unassignedParts" to "availableStages" and changed unassignedParts to Null.  You need to extend the brackets after "availableStages" to go around the engine parts.  And for good measure, I changed "totalStageCount" to 1 and "StageID" to 0.

Essentially go from this:

   

   "AssemblyDefinition": {
        "assemblyName": "Default Name-32",
        "localizationNameKey": "",
        "version": "1",
        "description": null,
        "simulationObjectType": "Vessel",
        "offsetToGround": 0.0
      },
      "stagingState": {
        "availableStages": [],
        "unassignedParts": {
          "partGuids": null,
          "PartIds": [
            {
              "Guid": "5d799cfc-2852-43ce-a002-e99d2147e61a",
              "DebugName": null
            },
            {
              "Guid": "57420225-510c-47d8-a878-0580deacbd84",
              "DebugName": null
            }
          ],
          "StageID": -1,
          "IsActive": false,
          "DeltaVSituation": {
            "CelestialBody": null,
            "IsAtmosphere": false,
            "Altitude": 0.0
          }
        },
        "totalStageCount": 0
      },

to this
 

      "AssemblyDefinition": {
        "assemblyName": "Default Name-32",
        "localizationNameKey": "",
        "version": "1",
        "description": null,
        "simulationObjectType": "Vessel",
        "offsetToGround": 0.0
      },
      "stagingState": {
        "availableStages": [
		  {
		   "partGuids": null,
            "PartIds": [
              {
                "Guid": "5d799cfc-2852-43ce-a002-e99d2147e61a",
                "DebugName": null
              },
              {
                "Guid": "57420225-510c-47d8-a878-0580deacbd84",
                "DebugName": null
              }
            ],
            "StageID": 0,
            "IsActive": false,
            "DeltaVSituation": {
              "CelestialBody": null,
              "IsAtmosphere": false,
              "Altitude": 0.0
            }
		  }
        ],
		"unassignedParts": null,
        "totalStageCount": 1
      },

 

Edited by Soda Popinski
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1 hour ago, Spicat said:

I would add that the previous way of doing this was perfect, a "no fuel" indicator with the bar being red, but you still could make the maneuver when you had no fuel:

GguLCxH.png

As far as I can remember, since release, the game never allowed to plan manoeuvres that require more DeltaV than what the active vessel had. Can it be verified that it was possible to make a manoeuvre in previous versions?

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On 11/7/2023 at 11:41 AM, Abelinoss said:

Don't forget the nodes being locked when timewarp is 0x

I could understand the logic behind that, would make for a more "realistic" or harder approach when for example launching a vessel. But there should at least be a setting allowing modification of nodes in 0x timewarp.

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Reported Version: v0.1.5 (latest) | Mods: none | Can replicate without mods? Yes 
OS: Windows 10 | CPU: i7-10870H | GPU: RTX 3070 | RAM16GB

Can't create maneuver plans for kerbals on EVA. I imagine this falls under the general maneuver plan/"no delta v" issue but I'm not sure if I'd seen this issue highlighted to effect EVA too so I figure it's worth bringing up in case that's overlooked.

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On 11/1/2023 at 9:24 AM, Mushylog said:

As far as I can remember, since release, the game never allowed to plan manoeuvres that require more DeltaV than what the active vessel had. Can it be verified that it was possible to make a manoeuvre in previous versions?

It was possible in the first version before any patches.  Though, I don't remember which patch changed it.

In Steam it's possible to select previous versions of the game and use those.  I've never actually tried it though.

Here's where you can select the previous versions:

  1. Right click on the game and select "Properties..."
  2. On the left hand column select "Betas"
  3. The drop-down menus on the right should default to "None".  If you pull that down you'll see all the previous versions.
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Just bought the game because of the new release that makes it actually a game.

Was better than I thought, until my "Apollo style" mission where I left the lander in orbit of the Mun. Now a mission later, I must do another landing. Great, launched an orbiter with extra fuel, docked and fuel transfer to the lander (weird resource manager duplication bug but lander fuel tank was full anyway). Now, undocking and there we are:

  • lander with full fuel tank
  • engine on
  • can throttle it up so definitely has some delta-v in it

BUT: it detects no "stages",  tracking station says it has 0 delta-v remaining, and cannot create maneuver nodes.

What a bummer.

Also related, how do you guys play? Where do I see how much delta-v is still needed on an ongoing planned burn? is the only indication how many SECONDS are left and how many pixels you can spot on the yellowy bar? Which, when the delta-v is miscalculated, might definitely not be there at all (e.g. all greyed out)?

Let us see the exact delta-v left on the burn pretty please!

 

Edited by elfolnx
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Reported Version: v0.2.0 (latest) | Mods: none | Can replicate without mods? Yes 
OS: Windows 11 | CPU: 12th Gen Intel i0 12900K | GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 | RAM32 GB

Easy to reproduce.  I ran out of methane/oxidizer fuel in a ship but had a ton of monopropellant left.  When I tried creating a maneuver node to help with a rendezvous, the game failed saying "Cannot Create Maneuver: No Fuel".

To reproduce:

- Have a vessel with a flight path and no fuel (e.g. in orbit), but with remaining monopropellant

- Try creating a maneuver node

Really there's no reason to have any fuel dependency on maneuver node creation.  Players might use these within one orbit before a rendezvous to refuel.  You should just be able to create a maneuver plan on any flight path.

 

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I have run into this when I had plenty of fuel and the game just thought I had no fuel for unknown reasons, save/reload didn't fix. I ended up manually flying the maneuvers using my experience since the game wouldn't let me pre-plan them, a new player would've just been screwed.

The start and end burn calculations are also borked, they were in KSP1 as well but at least in KSP1 it would just give you a time to maneuver node so you could guesstimate when to start and stop the burn yourself. I would like to see this a toggle-able setting or something. Burn calculation is difficult especially if multiple stages or fuel lines, or w/e are involved, as such it should not be designed such that it hinders gameplay when it can't complete the calculation for some reason.

I should be able to make whatever maneuver nodes I want, whether or not the ship can actually fly them is my problem, perhaps a warning ("not enough deltaV") would be good. A good example, is mentioned above with RCS. I often use RCS only for smaller orbital maneuvers, and even sometimes for circularization burns, especially with smaller craft/probes.

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Reported Version: v0.2.0 (latest) | Mods: none | Can replicate without mods? Yes 
OS: windows 11 pro | CPU: AMD 3950x | GPU: RTX 2080 Super | RAM128GB

When planning a burn, it will not let exceeded the calculated delta-V of the rocket. This is a big problem as some of the staging screws up the calculated values and also help plane larger maneuvers and how much you need to add.

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Reported Version: v0.2.0 (latest) | Mods: none | Can replicate without mods? Yes 
OS: win 10 pro | CPU: i9-10920x | GPU: rtx 2070 super | RAM64gb

 

Title: Creating Maneuver plan doesn't work if it exceeds fuel

Specs: N/A

Severity: (high/med/low).   Med

Frequency: (high/med/low).  high / Constantly

Description:  When trying to createa a Maneuver plan it will only allow the plan to include the amount of fuel that the ship has.     There are three reasons that this should be addressed.

1. This happens even when infinite propellant is selected.

2. I want to know how much delta v is left in the maneuver even if i have to use RCS to get it there or get out and push

3.  Making plans that end in failure seems to be the Kerbol way.

 

Included Attachments:

ksp2maneuverbug.PNG.a5dff1016b82390b9a48d1365c0dbb93.PNG

Edited by The Space Peacock
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Reported Version: v0.2.1 (latest) | Mods: none | Can replicate without mods? Yes 
OS: Arch Linux (Steam Proton Experimental) | CPU: AMD Ryzen 3600 | GPU: Nvidia 2060 | RAM64 GB

I've got a xenon drive craft and there is xenon fuel onboard. I didnt stage into the drive activating, but rather did it through the part manager.

The Fuel is not listed in the staging menu now, and i cant stage it either.

Thats annoying in itself, but the real problem is that when i try to create a maneuver node, it says that i can't because i dont have fuel.

Even if i didnt have fuel, though, i think i should still have access to the maneuver node tool. There's no reason it should be gated like this.

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