Kethane Pack 0.9.2 - New cinematic trailer! - 1.0 compatibility update

[Autochton]

Someone should mix some ClF₃ and FOOF. Just to see what happens.

As long as you don't do it in my solar system, go ahead, mate... A.G. Streng already did, and it wasn't pretty.

[LameLefty]

C-H reactions just don't provide the oomph to drive a rocket.

Um, yeah. They do. Methane makes a dandy rocket fuel though it's never been used in widespread practice. SpaceX just last week publicly announced their Raptor family of engines. Turbopump tests of what will be a 660,000 lbf engine will begin at Stennis Space Center next year.

But kethane ain't methane ... in our world, "K" is Potassium on the periodic table, after all.

[Sean Mirrsen]

So... Kethane is banana oil?

[Gameguru]

So... Kethane is banana oil?

Why yes, as a matter of fact it is.

[Ralathon]

Um, yeah. They do. Methane makes a dandy rocket fuel though it's never been used in widespread practice. SpaceX just last week publicly announced their Raptor family of engines. Turbopump tests of what will be a 660,000 lbf engine will begin at Stennis Space Center next year.

But kethane ain't methane ... in our world, "K" is Potassium on the periodic table, after all.

Yea, Methane + Oxidizer will react very nicely. But, if kethane is CH4 you wouldn't have an oxidizer. The best you could do is disband the CH4 to C and H2 and recombine that in the engine. But Hydrogen - Carbon reactions are less energetic than wet noodles.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Could it be some kind of ammonia? That would make the "fuel" hydrazine, and the "oxidizer" dinitrogen tetroxide.

[Galane]

What's extra weird about Fluorine is that it's one of the most, if not the most, reactive elements yet produces some of the most stable and nearly indestructible and non-reactive compounds like chlorofluorocarbons which include polymerized tetrafluoroethylene (PTFE, AKA Teflon).

Until specialized glass was invented to contain it, the only way to constrain pure fluorine gas (with any kind of permanency) was in containers lined with some kinds of waxes or made of crystallized fluorine.

The first time it was isolated, whomever did it trapped it in a sealed glass tube. He then heated and pulled an end of the tube down to a point so he could carefully file off the tip to sample the gas. Bad idea. It blew up. Would've done so on its own one it had dissolved its way through the thin spot.

(The History Channel used to have good shows on this science stuff.)

[Ralathon]

What's extra weird about Fluorine is that it's one of the most, if not the most, reactive elements yet produces some of the most stable and nearly indestructible and non-reactive compounds like chlorofluorocarbons which include polymerized tetrafluoroethylene (PTFE, AKA Teflon).

That part kind of makes sense. If a reaction produces a lot of energy it will take a lot of energy to break that bond as well. So as a rule of thumb: The more violent the reaction the more stable the products.

[Psycix]

What if Kethane would no longer produce oxidizer, but oxidizer would come from another resource? (Naming ideas: Klorine, Kluorine, Klitro, Klitrous)

This resource would be available in separate deposits that may partially overlap Kethane deposits (though it would be most interesting if we were forced to do pipelines or tankers)

A cryogenic compressor unit could produce oxidizer on planets with atmospheric oxygen.

The scanning and drilling hardware may overlap and work for both resources, but it would be most interesting if specialized equipment was also available.

It would add an extra level of depth to the game as well as complexity, but for most experienced KSP players the logistics of combining products from two different drilling sites would simply be a lot of fun.

Personally, I think Kethane as it is is way too easy. Find a green hex, plonk that ship down and suck up the fuel until you're filled up and ready to go.

Kethane takes almost no effort while it gives free fuel on every body. I think that the advantages of in situ fuel generation are worth working for and it should be harder to achieve.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Psycix

[BC-303]

Thank you very much for your response. I haven't tried the solution yet but it sounds like it will work!

About your last question, I didn't think of trying that. Sounds like the most fool proof way to fix it. Thanks again!

P.S. Good idea putting pictures in there! Those were a great reference!

[Gameguru]

What if Kethane would no longer produce oxidizer, but oxidizer would come from another resource? (Naming ideas: Klorine, Kluorine, Klitro, Klitrous)

This resource would be available in separate deposits that may partially overlap Kethane deposits (though it would be most interesting if we were forced to do pipelines or tankers)

A cryogenic compressor unit could produce oxidizer on planets with atmospheric oxygen.

The scanning and drilling hardware may overlap and work for both resources, but it would be most interesting if specialized equipment was also available.

It would add an extra level of depth to the game as well as complexity, but for most experienced KSP players the logistics of combining products from two different drilling sites would simply be a lot of fun.

Personally, I think Kethane as it is is way too easy. Find a green hex, plonk that ship down and suck up the fuel until you're filled up and ready to go.

Kethane takes almost no effort while it gives free fuel on every body. I think that the advantages of in situ fuel generation are worth working for and it should be harder to achieve.

There are only TWO bodies that have oxygen in them, thats Laythe and Kerbin. Now I would like that has an add-on part that allows you to convert intake air into oxidizer but you cant change kethane to produce NO oxidiser.

EDIT: I do like the idea of a diffrent fuel to be loaded into oxideser or other things.

[Hodo]

There are only TWO bodies that have oxygen in them, thats Laythe and Kerbin. Now I would like that has an add-on part that allows you to convert intake air into oxidizer but you cant change kethane to produce NO oxidiser.

EDIT: I do like the idea of a diffrent fuel to be loaded into oxideser or other things.

Simple answer.

Water.

Water is 1/3rd oxygen.

The other option is any planet with a high NOx atmosphere, NOx is not to be confused with NO2, as NOx is the general mono-Nitrous Oxide term.

[Galane]

I was able to add Debug = True to the Kethane cfg and reset Kerbin's deposits until I had a good patch on land under KSC.

However, I also had to change ShowOverlay to True to get it to show the grid. Had to go back and forth to the map screen several times before the debug version of the Kethane window would display correctly. Before I manually changed the overlay setting all I'd get for the kethane window was two bars like the top and bottom of the window, with the bottom at the top - sort of like an old CRT television with bad vertical hold and the picture displaying with the vertical blanking interval in the middle.

Debug is itself a bit buggy.

[brienne]

Do I have to unlock Kethane stuff in 0.22 Tech tree?

I installed the mod but don't get parts in VAB.

Thanks for your help.

PS: Ok, not active in career mod. No official config edits. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53134-Kerbal-Attachment-System-%28KAS%29-0-4-4-Struts-pipes-part-containers-and-more-%280-22%29?p=719230&viewfull=1#post719230

I don't get it Majir. You made one of the nicest mod, there's not much to put it in career mod, but you don't edit config files.

You don't want casual players to use your stuff?

I added "TechRequired = fuelSystems" to part.cfg of every kethane parts...

Edited October 29, 2013 by brienne

[taniwha]

Simple answer.

Water.

Water is 1/3rd oxygen.

The other option is any planet with a high NOx atmosphere, NOx is not to be confused with NO2, as NOx is the general mono-Nitrous Oxide term.

Yet another option: oxygen is the most common substance in Earth's crust, and probably the crust of any other rocky body.

[Benno]

What if Kethane would no longer produce oxidizer, but oxidizer would come from another resource? (Naming ideas: Klorine, Kluorine, Klitro, Klitrous)

This resource would be available in separate deposits that may partially overlap Kethane deposits (though it would be most interesting if we were forced to do pipelines or tankers)

A cryogenic compressor unit could produce oxidizer on planets with atmospheric oxygen.

The scanning and drilling hardware may overlap and work for both resources, but it would be most interesting if specialized equipment was also available.

It would add an extra level of depth to the game as well as complexity, but for most experienced KSP players the logistics of combining products from two different drilling sites would simply be a lot of fun.

Personally, I think Kethane as it is is way too easy. Find a green hex, plonk that ship down and suck up the fuel until you're filled up and ready to go.

Kethane takes almost no effort while it gives free fuel on every body. I think that the advantages of in situ fuel generation are worth working for and it should be harder to achieve.

I like this. For me, Kethane was at first wonderfully attractive, the definitive 'must have' mod if ever there was one, and with quite a bit of 'professional polish' to boot. Refueling on distant shores? Awesome. But... it is just a little too easy isn't it? There is a mod that enables you to create a spaceship factory on other planets as well, and that's just going way too far IMHO. Seriously, can you imagine how many centuries in to the future it will be before we can manufacture a spacecraft on another planet from raw materials? We're really not that good at doing it on Earth yet. I know KSP isn't supposed to be overly analagous to the real world, but we're talking a long way off here. So, it was thoughts like that (and career mode forcing me to go without for a change) that made me start rethinking Kethane a little.

A magical base compound that can somehow be converted in to just about anything I want? Solid fuel, liquid fuel, oxidizer... with a short skip many of us can also include oxygen, water, etc.... Sure, we can argue about the possible real world chemical composition of Kethane, but most of these discussions boil down to something along the lines of "well, if we have Carbon, Hydrogen, and Oxygen, we can make anything! So, as long as Kethane has those three elements, we're good to go". No, I don't think so. There's this little field of science called chemistry that would have us believe that it's actually not that easy to simply pull molecules apart in to their constituent atoms and recombine them in any way we see fit. My pint of beer has all of those elements in it, but can I turn it in to rocket fuel with just the help of a little converter (tequila doesn't count by the way)? When was the last time someone took a good long look at a fuel refinery, notice how big those things are, and how many different pieces of technology are involved? Not to mention the oil or gas platforms/mines/wells that supply them. But, somehow with Kethane we convince ourselves that all of that technology can, in the quite near future, be miniaturized in to a handy little drilling and converting kit that can be strapped on to any self respecting spacecraft and easily deployed over a convenient deposit.

I know, I know, it's just a game. Look, I've loved Kethane as much as anyone, and better a Kethane mod than no Kethane mod. My main point is that I agree with this post, in that it should be a bit harder, and require at least a little more investment in ground-based infrastructure. Getting fuel from other worlds is a fantastic goal, but it should be balanced with a considerable level of effort invested to be able to pull it off. Requiring a second resource to be combined with Kethane sounds like a pretty good solution that's not overly complicated to implement (yes, easy for me to say), and would increase enjoyment at the same time. I suspect that having the resources geographically separated by any great distance could easily take a lot of the fun out of the concept, but surely there's a compromise to be had somewhere?

Edited October 28, 2013 by Benno
grammar

[taniwha]

How many centuries until we can build rockets on another planet? Zero. The only reason we can't now is because nobody's there. Sure, it would take a few years of R&D, but consider how quickly we got to the moon from "um, what's a rocket?". We already know what's on the moon and Mars (and Mars is even easier: lots of CO₂).

As for kethane: it's not really all that magical if you consider it to be a slurry of organic compounds. With a bit of processing, good old C₂H₅OH (a very popular, though volatile, organic compound) can be made into pretty much anything you want, including (oh, the horrors) dihydrogen monoxide or even a light buzz . The only magical part of kethane is xenon, but it's not implausible to assume the gas is dissolved in the slurry.

The above mentioned compound has 3 of the 4 most common elements in the universe (the 4th, being a noble gas, won't be found in compounds).

Kethane is quite plausible and the game mechanics is quite good. Extraplanetary Launchpads, too, is quite plausible, though its game mechanics need some refining.

[Vlk]

Since the latest update (i updated to the latest the kethane mod too), my Kethane heavy drill constantly deploying, then retracting. The funny thing is, it does the animation even in the VAB. What could be the solution?

Edit: i replaced the heavy kethane files with the old files. looks like nothing broke, but the problem is solved.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Vlk

[dlmarti]

Since the latest update (i updated to the latest the kethane mod too), my Kethane heavy drill constantly deploying, then retracting. The funny thing is, it does the animation even in the VAB. What could be the solution?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/23979-Kethane-Pack-0-8-Art-pass-terrain-conforming-grid-and-miscellaneous-improvements/page318?p=704502#post704502

[Galane]

Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen. That's most of what's in pretty much everything classed as organic. Called CHON in Frederik Pohl's "Heechee Saga".

[Mykill Metal]

Just ran into a problem which rendered my miner useless. The drills on the new drill unit only extend like 4-10 meters, is there a way to modify it so they go longer?

[Sean Mirrsen]

Not easily I think, but you should be able to fix the design oversight in the next model of your miner.

To clarify, the extension animation isn't scripted per se, I think it actually checks whether the drill touches the ground, and the animation is embedded in the model file. Not a cfg edit.

[erisiah]

While searching my KSP.log to fix my game, I came across this curious entry for Kethane:

[WRN 23:00:18.000] File 'K:/Games/KSP/KSP_0.22/KSP_Data/../saves/default/kethane.cfg' does not exist

Pretty sure that's the wrong directory. The base directory for my game is 'K:/Games/KSP/KSP_0.22/'.

[TimMartland]

How long till Tech Tree Integration? I did it myself on another mod (UKDs Large Structural Components) and it is quite easy. Also, if you do integrate it with the Tech Tree, can you make a version available witch just puts the parts in stock nodes, making it compatible with custom tech tree mods.

[RabidMonkey]

Is there any objection to one of us posting a ModuleManager config that integrates the Kethane parts into the tech tree? I figure that it would be useful for those who aren't inclined to write the config themselves.