Things INSIDE cargo bay and de-couplers

[tweaked9107]

Am I being stupid or is there some kind of problem here...

When I use a cargo bay there is no easy way to have something inside it that can detach because it seems to be routed to the cargo bay itself. If i try to route it to the main rocket stack and then put the cargo bay AROUND it, the cargo bay just sits on top leaving a massive gap.

It's the same with decouplers/separators. I wanted to have a small dock at the top of a stage and then put a large separator around the outside. The problem is, the separator attaches itself to the top of the dock centrally (even though they aren't physically touching). So then I end up with this annoying gap in the rocket. 

Is there a way around this that I'm just not figuring out, or is this actually how it's designed? Because it seems a bit crazy to me that I can attach/root to something that I'm not physically connected to. Surely the outside edge of the, lets say fuel tank, should be the bit the decoupler/seperator/cargo bay is physically attaching to. Not the thing inside?

Edited February 3 by tweaked9107

[kdaviper]

You just have to pay attention to which nodes you are attaching things to. Pics might help a bit too

[The Aziz]

In theory cargo bays should have inside nodes to which you can attach something that can decouple later. But I never used them to release anything into space so don't know if that's the case or not.

[Oak7603]

I submitted this as a bug inlcuding parts magically fixing themselves to fairings with a large gap between them and then not being able to release them but was given the answer to use a decoupler. When I asked if that is just a work around or was working as intended, I was just ignored. 

I don't think that any part should join another if it doesnt seem to physically touch it. I also don't think that cargo bays should have attach points anywhere but at their base so the small cargo bay sections should be able to be used to make cargo bays of any length you desire. I concede that it may be the case and requires some specific placement but it's not intuitive as shown by my bug report and the OP's difficulty.

[kdaviper]

1 hour ago, Oak7603 said:

I submitted this as a bug inlcuding parts magically fixing themselves to fairings with a large gap between them and then not being able to release them but was given the answer to use a decoupler. When I asked if that is just a work around or was working as intended, I was just ignored. 

I don't think that any part should join another if it doesnt seem to physically touch it. I also don't think that cargo bays should have attach points anywhere but at their base so the small cargo bay sections should be able to be used to make cargo bays of any length you desire. I concede that it may be the case and requires some specific placement but it's not intuitive as shown by my bug report and the OP's difficulty.

Even if there is a visible gap you NEED a decoupler.

[Oak7603]

Which is the point the OP is making. It doesn't seem right that parts that don't touch get joined together. I try to build 'realistic' builds so I don't like it when parts clip or move through each other so this just bugs me.

[tweaked9107]

So this is the easiest example of what I'm talking about below.

I should be able to attach that outer separator directly down onto that battery, but because I have a dock there, it sits floating in the air above it. If I then wanted to attack something to the dock, I can't because it roots itself in mid-air to the separator instead. It's the same problem with cargo bays. This is a very specific example, but there are several variations of this problem in different builds.

Edited February 4 by tweaked9107

[kdaviper]

43 minutes ago, tweaked9107 said:

So this is the easiest example of what I'm talking about below.

I should be able to attach that outer separator directly down onto that battery, but because I have a dock there, it sits floating in the air above it. If I then wanted to attack something to the dock, I can't because it roots itself in mid-air to the separator instead. It's the same problem with cargo bays. This is a very specific example, but there are several variations of this problem in different builds.

You don't even need the separator. Also if you want there to not be a gap when attaching larger parts, you're going to need to use the larger docking ports 

[Bej Kerman]

51 minutes ago, tweaked9107 said:

So this is the easiest example of what I'm talking about below.

I should be able to attach that outer separator directly down onto that battery, but because I have a dock there, it sits floating in the air above it. If I then wanted to attack something to the dock, I can't because it roots itself in mid-air to the separator instead. It's the same problem with cargo bays. This is a very specific example, but there are several variations of this problem in different builds.

A quick workaround for this is using the offset tool. The collision mesh of the decoupler should be hollow.

7 minutes ago, kdaviper said:

You don't even need the separator. Also if you want there to not be a gap when attaching larger parts, you're going to need to use the larger docking ports 

Stack Overflow in a nutshell

[tweaked9107]

1 hour ago, kdaviper said:

You don't even need the separator. Also if you want there to not be a gap when attaching larger parts, you're going to need to use the larger docking ports 

It's just an example of the problem I'm talking about that I quickly mocked up and not an actual build. I can't remember exactly, but the original problem i was having with it was to do with having a seperate rocket within a cargo bay that had a coupling at the top because it needed to rendezvous with another craft. Either way, the point remains. You shouldn't be able to have floating parts that aren't physically attached to anything. Hollow objects should be exactly that but it treats them as if they aren't.

Edited February 4 by tweaked9107

[kdaviper]

1 hour ago, tweaked9107 said:

It's just an example of the problem I'm talking about that I quickly mocked up and not an actual build. I can't remember exactly, but the original problem i was having with it was to do with having a seperate rocket within a cargo bay that had a coupling at the top because it needed to rendezvous with another craft. Either way, the point remains. You shouldn't be able to have floating parts that aren't physically attached to anything. Hollow objects should be exactly that but it treats them as if they aren't.

I disagree. You should be able to. It is the kerbal way

[Meecrob]

1 hour ago, kdaviper said:

I disagree. You should be able to. It is the kerbal way

I know this is in jest, but there is an element of truth to it. In the example above, the "real life" way to attach the decoupler would be circumerentially, directly to its parent part, but the Kerbal way is a floating node in the middle of the circle the decoupler forms. Its a shortcut taken to not simulate each and every fastener on a craft.

Anecdotally, I have had luck in not running into these issues by avoiding connecting two parts of different sizes together. YMMV

I bet once the devs attack some lower hanging fruit, they will address this, but as it stands, it works, but looks awkward. It does not affect the simulation part of the game though.

[kdaviper]

And if you want to put something in a cargo bay without a decoupler there is a way ... But it is not the easy way

2 hours ago, Meecrob said:

I know this is in jest, but there is an element of truth to it. In the example above, the "real life" way to attach the decoupler would be circumerentially, directly to its parent part, but the Kerbal way is a floating node in the middle of the circle the decoupler forms. Its a shortcut taken to not simulate each and every fastener on a craft.

Anecdotally, I have had luck in not running into these issues by avoiding connecting two parts of different sizes together. YMMV

I bet once the devs attack some lower hanging fruit, they will address this, but as it stands, it works, but looks awkward. It does not affect the simulation part of the game though.

Just wait until they discover the shift button in the vab 

[Audaylon]

I find payloads to work exactly how they look.  Put a decoupler on the inside, followed by your control probe.  Pay attention to which way it decouples. 

As for the decoupler on docking port, you can use the specific size decoupler for the connecting docking port and it would appear asthetic again. 

You are probably better off putting the docking port in a fairing at the top of a craft.