kerbiloid Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) And this is how the professionals do the things. https://fortressvl.ru/fortress/novosilcevskaya-batareya/ Spoiler Edited March 28 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 im not sure what the mass of the ship was, but based on the displacement value from wikipedia, i think i pegged the impact energy at around 41 gigajoules. any idea on how to stop or deflect that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerben Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Ramps are the best idea. To protect it with loose piled rock would require probably 1,000,000 tons, and a volume larger than the ship. That will affect the channel for sure. Mississippi river barges are 1500 tons, and draft 8 feet. When 30 of them are lashed together that's half the mass of the Dali. Protecting river bridges is even more challenging than harbors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthgently Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 1 hour ago, farmerben said: Ramps are the best idea. To protect it with loose piled rock would require probably 1,000,000 tons, and a volume larger than the ship. That will affect the channel for sure. Mississippi river barges are 1500 tons, and draft 8 feet. When 30 of them are lashed together that's half the mass of the Dali. Protecting river bridges is even more challenging than harbors. Other than the obvious answer, tunnels, all I got is to over engineer with double the pylons and have a quick release system such that a pylon at risk of allision from a craft is no longer a bridge support. Like it "undocks" from the bridge and the top drops down a meter or so. Yes, fantastical and dreamy. And so I come back to tunnels. Call The Boring Company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical-lift_bridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 7 minutes ago, darthgently said: Other than the obvious answer, tunnels, all I got is to over engineer with double the pylons and have a quick release system such that a pylon at risk of allision from a craft is no longer a bridge support. Like it "undocks" from the bridge and the top drops down a meter or so. Yes, fantastical and dreamy. And so I come back to tunnels. Call The Boring Company so, WE MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS. Spoiler YOUVE NOT ENOUGH MINERALS! sorry, il leave now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Interesting. Build a better bridge would be my solution—nothing in the channel at all. That said, they're talking about it talking years to rebuild... they need to work faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDE Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 1 hour ago, tater said: Interesting. Build a better bridge would be my solution—nothing in the channel at all. That said, they're talking about it talking years to rebuild... they need to work faster. Well, the calcs show that Baltimore loses up to 200 mil a day idling and the new bridge would cost 1000 mil, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSaint Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Saw this yesterday. LOLed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Kudos to the pilot. The power went out, and alarms rang—and 31 seconds later he was on his cell phone to dispatch telling them to close the bridge. Given a second or so of reaction time, and some nonzero time to retrieve his phone, and call the right place... pretty much an instant decision on his part that certainly saved lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSaint Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 2 hours ago, tater said: Build a better bridge would be my solution—nothing in the channel at all. That said, they're talking about it talking years to rebuild... they need to work faster. I was thinking about that. They took 11 years to build the replacement for the Oakland Bay Bridge up in Northern California, not including the time it took for them to actually decide which bridge to build. Good luck, Baltimore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PakledHostage Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 34 minutes ago, TheSaint said: I was thinking about that. They took 11 years to build the replacement for the Oakland Bay Bridge up in Northern California, not including the time it took for them to actually decide which bridge to build. Good luck, Baltimore. This is why we won't have fusion power plants before 2040 or Mars colonies either. 2040 is 16 years from now. Evidently it takes that long to build large scale examples of established technology like bridges or subway lines, let alone cutting edge stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 15 hours ago, Nuke said: WE MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS. They first must construct ANY pylons at all. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/03/27/baltimore-bridge-collapse-bodies-missing-workers/ Quote Unlike many modern bridges, Homendy said, the Key Bridge was constructed in 1977 without redundant structures that would keep it from toppling if a major support was struck. She said the NTSB investigation would probably take 12 to 24 months. Some money numbers. https://pro-rbc-ru.translate.goog/demo/6606e1d89a794771d153b471?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp I'm disoriented. The bridge costed 60 mln USD, but the economic loss is already 800 mln USD. So, I still have no idea, what's cheaper, the bridge or the ship. 12 hours ago, PakledHostage said: This is why we won't have fusion power plants before 2040 or Mars colonies either. 2040 is 16 years from now. Evidently it takes that long to build large scale examples of established technology like bridges or subway lines, let alone cutting edge stuff. Space lifts... They were so close ten years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerben Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, kerbiloid said: They first must construct ANY pylons at all. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/03/27/baltimore-bridge-collapse-bodies-missing-workers/ Some money numbers. https://pro-rbc-ru.translate.goog/demo/6606e1d89a794771d153b471?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp I'm disoriented. The bridge costed 60 mln USD, but the economic loss is already 800 mln USD. So, I still have no idea, what's cheaper, the bridge or the ship. Space lifts... They were so close ten years ago. 50-100 million $ for a panamax cargo ship https://gegcalculators.com/whats-the-cost-of-a-normal-cargo-ship/ Edited March 30 by farmerben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Looks like hardware itself costs nothing. No winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDE Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 17 hours ago, TheSaint said: Saw this yesterday. LOLed. You know, I'm somewhat of an epidemiologist / military strategist / economist / hydropower expert myself! (BTW why was nuclear power in the news?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 3 hours ago, farmerben said: 50-100 million $ for a panamax cargo ship https://gegcalculators.com/whats-the-cost-of-a-normal-cargo-ship/ its a neopanamax. which is bigger (read more expensive). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PakledHostage Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 15 minutes ago, Nuke said: its a neopanamax. which is bigger (read more expensive). It's not necessarily a write off anyway. The visible damage is above the water line and I haven't heard anything in the news about it taking on water. I do recall reading years ago, however, that the value of the cargo on one of those ships can exceed a billion dollars. The cargo on Dali is presumably just tied up for a bit until they can get it off her and onto another ship, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSaint Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, DDE said: (BTW why was nuclear power in the news?) I don't know if it was. Did it need to be? Edited March 30 by TheSaint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerbart Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 17 minutes ago, PakledHostage said: The cargo on Dali is presumably just tied up for a bit until they can get it off her and onto another ship, though. That's going to take an act of congress though. Literally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSaint Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 7 minutes ago, Kerbart said: That's going to take an act of congress though. Literally. Speaking of acts of Congress: Continuing the parallel I drew above, the Oakland Bay Bridge not only took 11 years to complete, but it cost $6.2 billion, after an initial estimate of $780 million. And that was twenty years ago. In addition to taking forever, this is going to cost the Moon as well. Woot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PakledHostage Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 41 minutes ago, Kerbart said: That's going to take an act of congress though. Literally. Why? I don't understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kerbart said: That's going to take an act of congress though. Literally. you need to get it at least over to one of the loading cranes. probibly offload and then take the ship to drydock for repair. of course you need to clear the channel first before you can do that. Edited March 30 by Nuke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandedonEarth Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 19 hours ago, Nuke said: so, WE MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS. Reveal hidden contents YOUVE NOT ENOUGH MINERALS! sorry, il leave now. For Aiur! Hopefully they can at least clear the wreckage soon, and can modify an existing bridge design to have a plan ready ASAP. Cable-stayed seems to be the favorite these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerbart Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 46 minutes ago, Nuke said: you need to get it at least over to one of the loading cranes. probibly offload and then take the ship to drydock for repair. of course you need to clear the channel first before you can do that. The Jones Act prevents unloading cargo on board of foreign vessels in US ports that was loaded from US ports. The FMC really doesn't care what your circumstances are, you will need to get an extension for that. Last time a Jones Act extension was granted, if memory serves me right, was after hurricane Sandy to allow repositioning of empty containers, just to give an idea on how rare those occasions are. Now, I don't think it will be an issue in this case, but it does need to be cleared first and it's not an insignificant administrative hurdle. 1 hour ago, PakledHostage said: Why? I don't understand? Because of laws that protect US Maritime interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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