Firespitter propeller plane and helicopter parts v7.1 (May 5th) for KSP 1.0

[ahappydude]

Yeah. A tech tree that start with what's essentially a Wright Flyer and only introduces rocketry and jets mid-game (and even that with a V-2 equivalent) would be an interesting variation.

This! Would be kool to make your own fly history kerbal style, to that you could add own resources and add achivments.

Great to see that you still modd snjo!

Cheers

[Snjo]

I've been chatting with InfiniteDice about his Internal Combustion Engine stuff, and we are working on some GUI stuff for it so that you can control each engine independently. I'm thinking it would work well as an optional add on that replaces the engines in FS.

I've been testing some of that stuff along with some new wing code in Unity:

Lots of debug boxes to display active lift amounts

The wings use the proper lift calculations, and work well, excpet for some reason the rudder acts oddly in reverse

If it survives to conversion to a KSP thing, I can make better flaps, air brakes and independently controlled control surfaces, like some of the FAR stuff. To be clear, the goal is not to replace FAR flight physics, but to be able to do extra features on wings that just can't be done with the stock wing code. IF FAR is present it will detect that and shut itself off.

[Tanya Sapien]

Hey, I don't know if you remember me, but I helped with tracking a framerate dropping bug on the FirespitterOS monitors. Well I was tinkering around with 0.22 compatabilities, and I found something interesting buried deep in the B9 Aerospace configs, specifically the config for "B9_IVA_Display_01_x08". changing one of the asset parameters called "plateSize" had huge effects on the amount of framerate drop without affecting the resolution of the monitors in any noticable ways, I've included the snippet of code I found along with a version I modified which nearly removed the lag altogether:

original, laggy model:

  MODULE
  {
    	name = FSmonitorScript

	charPlateObject = charPlate    
	plateSize = 0.005
	charSpacing = 0.0036    
	lineSpacing = 0.005    
	charPerLine = 23    
	linesPerPage = 17    
	useCustomStartStatesCfg = 1    
	spriteScale = 0.0625    
	spriteShift = 0.0
  }

modified, non-laggy model:

  MODULE
  {
    	name = FSmonitorScript

	charPlateObject = charPlate    
	plateSize = 0.007
	charSpacing = 0.0036    
	lineSpacing = 0.005    
	charPerLine = 23    
	linesPerPage = 17    
	useCustomStartStatesCfg = 1    
	spriteScale = 0.0625    
	spriteShift = 0.0
  }

I hope all that number gibberish means something to you and might help in making future builds more versatile and stable.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Tanya Sapien

[Snjo]

Hey, I don't know if you remember me, but I helped with tracking a framerate dropping bug on the FirespitterOS monitors. Well I was tinkering around with 0.22 compatabilities, and I found something interesting buried deep in the B9 Aerospace configs, specifically the config for "B9_IVA_Display_01_x08". changing one of the asset parameters called "plateSize" had huge effects on the amount of framerate drop without affecting the resolution of the monitors in any noticable ways, I've included the snippet of code I found along with a version I modified which nearly removed the lag altogether:

...

I hope all that number gibberish means something to you and might help in making future builds more versatile and stable.

I tried this, but couldn't reproduce it on my own machine, but it's possible that it works in the b9 stuff because at that size there are no cracks between the plates, and with no transparency that might mean fewer draw calls. Interesting!

I'll have to look into some optimization ideas I have for these things. A simpler shader, and disabling the rear ones unless you turn it on with the green button for instance.

[pip12345]

Hey Snjo, this might be a little rude to ask but do you have an estimation of when the new engines are publicly available for download?

And as a big flightsim-er, this is one of the very few addons I've ever been this excited for.

[Snjo]

That new engine code is actually InfiniteDice's work, but we're chatting about it back and forth, so I'm gonna contribute some stuff here and there. I'm not sure what the time frame is, there's a few pieces to fit together.

I guess it depends on how much free time we both have, or how boring work gets

[Snjo]

For people interested in the new wing code, here's a playable version of my unity test:

http://snjo.net/unity/plane/

Controls:

WS: pitch

AD: roll

QE: yaw

F: flappy air brakes

Pull the throttle slider up to go fast, or below the starting point to reverse. (engine 2 and 3 are on each wing for testing, 1 is centered)

Edited October 31, 2013 by Snjo

[Bobhendly]

God, When will people on KSP Videos use smooth controls? Its rather jarring to see a prop plane with control surfaces flapping insanely like that..

PRESS CAPS LOCK!

Gawd.

[KhaosCorp]

God, When will people on KSP Videos use smooth controls? Its rather jarring to see a prop plane with control surfaces flapping insanely like that..

PRESS CAPS LOCK!

Gawd.

Congrats!!! Your post just made it in the Top10 most Worthless and Pointless posts on the forums!! YAY....

Most of us can control planes without using caps lock.....some of us actually prefer the resposiveness NOT flying in babymode gives ya.

But Im sure your silly aversion to flapping...flaps (muhahaha PUN INTENDED) is every film makers top concern when filming...

[Snjo]

Great progress on the wings. As a test, I set up the F-86 wings to use the new code, it now does:

Ailerons only respond to roll, ignores pitch/yaw (configurable)

Working flaps. They are small lifting surfaces on the inner part of the wing which creates lots of drag if at a steep angle, so they work as air brakes too.

The leading edge functionality now actually makes sense. When toggled on, they simply increase the surface area variable of the main lifting surface, so they give more lift and drag.

In this wing, the flaps are the plain type, which just rotate. In another wing, you would combine the leading edge fucntionality (but renamed), to extend the flap backwards, and the rotate them. That way you get both increased area and alter the lift vector.

When I get a GUI set up, any wing/control surface can be set to respond to roll, pitch, yaw and flap input independent of where they are on the craft, in either the positive or negative direction. (In the hangar)

The thing that's missing, and which makes it hard to build with right now is the missing lift indicator arrow in the hangar. Gotta do some math to get that matched up with the stock lift values.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Snjo

[MennoLente]

For people interested in the new wing code, here's a playable version of my unity test:

http://snjo.net/unity/plane/

Cool! I can fly backwards!

[Bobhendly]

SO REALLLISTICCZ! ERMAHGERD!

Yeah.. Planes flying backwards? Screw reality.

[Snjo]

What's the difference between a pusher prop plane and a puller prop flying backwards anyway? I mean apart from the efficiency of the wing shape. Just need more Angle of Attack.

And sure, it's awkward having the ailerons in front of the wing surface, but I bet you it could be done.

For adventurous backwards flyers, the pre-release has some alternate wings with the new lift code. Look for the jet wings marked "special aero", or try the example craft F-86 S.

I found out the F-86 leading edges auto deploy/retract based on air pressure (slow speeds or high AoA), so now mine do too in this test

v5.7 pre-release

Download

Changes:

-New alternate lift code

-Alternate "special aero" wings: fighter jet wing, elevator, rudder, and the fighter wing

Todo:

-Separate air brakes/control surfaces

-Updating the lift helper arrow in the hangar. (You will be building blind for now)

[MJDixon]

Thanks a lot for this mod, I'm enjoying being able to make creations set in the 40s and earlier.

Here's a video I put together of a converted Westmorland MK. II Heavy Bomber made using a lot of stuff from your mod and others, hope you enjoy:

[Hodo]

Thanks a lot for this mod, I'm enjoying being able to make creations set in the 40s and earlier.

Here's a video I put together of a converted Westmorland MK. II Heavy Bomber made using a lot of stuff from your mod and others, hope you enjoy:

Love the X-1 recreation there. And did you actually use the soundtrack from "The Right Stuff"?

[MJDixon]

Love the X-1 recreation there. And did you actually use the soundtrack from "The Right Stuff"?

Indeed it is, and the voice clips too. Glad you liked it!

[Snjo]

Ferram helped me out with some drag issues due to bad lift vector, so now you can actually glide the plane instead of just falling out of the sky when the engine is off. Totally made my day

I updated the lift demo and pre-release with the improved code.

Still to do is controlling the amount of control input the surfaces will accept at higher speeds, so it doesn't act too crazy, and so I can tune it to do more at lower speeds.

And of course the lift info arrows in the hangar.

[wasmic]

Thanks a lot for this mod, I'm enjoying being able to make creations set in the 40s and earlier.

Here's a video I put together of a converted Westmorland MK. II Heavy Bomber made using a lot of stuff from your mod and others, hope you enjoy:

And the brave kerbals who flew the dropping plane were never heard from again.

[T-Pilot395]

I updated the lift demo with the improved code.

This is about a thousand times better than the crappy ass flying thing I made in Unity some time ago. Can I have the code for this lift mechanic so I can actually make a plane that doesn't fly using translation?

[Bobhendly]

..That drop plane was not going much slower than mach 1..

And also, snjo, Whatever happened to the weapons that you and infinitedice were making? Im itching for more!

Edited November 2, 2013 by Bobhendly

[Patupi]

Wow, a lot of activity here since I last checked in. Unfortunately I'm here to ask if there's been any issues with SF messing with other mods of late. In my AAR for some reason the electric props keep crashing. I'm running quite a few mods, but so far it's only planes with props that seem to cause problems. The basic nose mounted electric propeller didn't crash, but produced zero thrust. The folding red, and larger white electric props just crash as soon as the runway pops up, with NAN and the altimeter scrolling '55555', '66666' etc before blacking out.

I'm assuming it's a mod conflict issue, or perhaps a memory issue. I did just install Universe replacer with the 8K textures for planets, but Firespitter seems to the the only thing crashing oddly. Before I start stripping things out I wanted to check if there had been any similar reports before and if there was a simple solution. I'm running Firespitter 5.2 at present.

As reference I'm running the following mods:Actions on the fly, Editor Extensions, KSP Interstellar, Clouds and City lights, Universe Replacer, Kethane, KAS, Procedural fairings, Mechjeb, Science log, Select root, and Treeloader

I think the first thing I'd strip would be the 8K textures *sigh* but they do look so cool. I'm hoping someone has an alternate solution.

[Snjo]

This is about a thousand times better than the crappy ass flying thing I made in Unity some time ago. Can I have the code for this lift mechanic so I can actually make a plane that doesn't fly using translation?

I know what you mean (I also have made some bad ones). I've been searching my ass off trying to find some Unity examples of lift code, but it seems no one cares about planes. The examples posted are no more than stray thoughts on AoA, and the one good example I've seen is closed source. In the end I had to get the lift equation from the NASA site.

If you don't mind a 180 MB file, just look at my project

The two pieces of code that matter is the liftSurface and the planeController (for rotating surfaces). The lift surface relies on a placed transform on the wing with z pointing forwards, y up.

You should also add some tweak to the control surface range at high speeds to reduce over steer.

[Snjo]

..That drop plane was not going much slower than mach 1..

And also, snjo, Whatever happened to the weapons that you and infinitedice were making? Im itching for more!

It's always on my mind

ID has made great strides with his weapons. I'm planning out a bomb dropper rig in my head that will spawn bombs that are depleted from a resource pool, instead of having to be attached one by one in the hangar. The missiles from way back are no longer made the way I want them to be made, so I'll have to do that code from scratch before I'd be happy to release it. They should both use a lot of the same code though, so when the bombs get done, that's 2/3 of the missile code done too.

Wow, a lot of activity here since I last checked in. Unfortunately I'm here to ask if there's been any issues with SF messing with other mods of late. In my AAR for some reason the electric props keep crashing. I'm running quite a few mods, but so far it's only planes with props that seem to cause problems. The basic nose mounted electric propeller didn't crash, but produced zero thrust. The folding red, and larger white electric props just crash as soon as the runway pops up, with NAN and the altimeter scrolling '55555', '66666' etc before blacking out.

I'm assuming it's a mod conflict issue, or perhaps a memory issue. I did just install Universe replacer with the 8K textures for planets, but Firespitter seems to the the only thing crashing oddly. Before I start stripping things out I wanted to check if there had been any similar reports before and if there was a simple solution. I'm running Firespitter 5.2 at present.

As reference I'm running the following mods:Actions on the fly, Editor Extensions, KSP Interstellar, Clouds and City lights, Universe Replacer, Kethane, KAS, Procedural fairings, Mechjeb, Science log, Select root, and Treeloader

I think the first thing I'd strip would be the 8K textures *sigh* but they do look so cool. I'm hoping someone has an alternate solution.

The earlier versions of FS are not compatible with KSP 0.22. I don't know of any general conflict issues, but the engines do alter the stock engine module's maxThrust, so if you have another mod that plays with that value, it might be an issue. None of the code in my engines touches stuff outside their own part, so if other mods mess with my parts, that's rather rude

If you have a mod or tool that has edited the cfg files, that could also cause weird stuff.

So, try the latest FS version with KSP 0.22.

[Patupi]

Hmm, I thought I DLed that after 0.22 and Firespitter updated to it? Maybe not. Oh, I typoed in my previous post. My version of Firespitter is 5.6 (not the current 5.6.2, but still a lot newer than 5.2! ) Sorry for the confusion.

KSP Intersteller messes a lot with thrust dynamics for the plasma thrusters and thermal rockets. I don't know the details but that could be an issue. Someone on the KSPI thread also mentioned a similar problem with Firespitter there.

(EDIT: Yup, Fractal_UK confirmed it. It's a conflict between FS and KSPI. He's fixing it in the next version of KSPI so should be good. Thanks for bearing with me.)

Edited November 2, 2013 by Patupi
problem located

[Liam Sheepman]

Is it just me or are most of the propellers pretty underpowered? The Basic Jet Engine has twice the thrust. You need a ridiculous amount of them to take off.