I think i am slightly insane in the way i play KSP.

[mrneon]

Every single time i see people play KSP with MechJeb, Kerbal Engineer Redux and other helping mods, usually to tell them info. They have several windows to monitor every single thing.

 

And it turns out, i don't do it. In fact, i have BOTH of the mods installed and i barely use them, usually only KER for landing.

 Am i doing something wrong? Should i be locked up in an asylum? Or am i superior for not giving a flying Kerbal in Eve's upper atmosphere about the advanced information on orbit, planets, atmosphere and vessel parameters?

[Scarecrow71]

1 hour ago, mrneon said:

Am i doing something wrong?

Nope.  One of the beautiful things about this game is that we can all play in whatever way makes the most sense to and provides the most fun for ourselves.  You do you, and don't worry how anyone else is doing them.

1 hour ago, mrneon said:

Should i be locked up in an asylum?

Assuming this isn't rhetorical...

You play KSP.  That should be enough of an answer for you to determine whether or not you need to be institutionalized.

1 hour ago, mrneon said:

Or am i superior for not giving a flying Kerbal in Eve's upper atmosphere about the advanced information on orbit, planets, atmosphere and vessel parameters?

No, you aren't.  You are playing the way you want to, just as I play the way I want to (using MechJeb for Orbital information, launch assent, triggering nodes, etc.).  We each get to play how we want to, which is neither better nor worse than anyone else.

[mrneon]

53 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Nope.  One of the beautiful things about this game is that we can all play in whatever way makes the most sense to and provides the most fun for ourselves.  You do you, and don't worry how anyone else is doing them.

Assuming this isn't rhetorical...

You play KSP.  That should be enough of an answer for you to determine whether or not you need to be institutionalized.

No, you aren't.  You are playing the way you want to, just as I play the way I want to (using MechJeb for Orbital information, launch assent, triggering nodes, etc.).  We each get to play how we want to, which is neither better nor worse than anyone else.

I expected a less-serious answer for that, but thanks.

[Bej Kerman]

49 minutes ago, mrneon said:

I expected a less-serious answer for that, but thanks.

To be fair, I'm sure people are hesitant to lower their shields after all the drama here

[AlamoVampire]

From my experience with mechjeb its a valuable tool that fills a gap left by squad way back when. I wont fly without it. Im a licensed rc pilot, have flown a real cessna and am an active sim pilot and autopilot is a wonderful tool and have the opinion if real aviation and space agencies like NASA, JAXA and, ESA use autopilot then I will too. The real issue comes from the extreme right (mechjeb is cheating) or extreme left (mechjeb is the only way) camps getting into fights over it. I cant speak to engineer redux as stock info panels and mechjeb give me information i need just fine. Both are tools to be used or not at YOUR discretion. You own YOUR copy of the game to play as YOU choose. Blaze your trail and blaze it brightly. Play YOUR way. Have YOUR fun. The only style of play that TRULY matters is what works for YOU. Will your way be the way @Bej Kerman plays or how I play? Likely no. Thats a good thing! Just look at the pictures we all upload. By most standards (ignoring parts packs) we all have identical parts yet build craft wildly different from each other. 

This is DOSSP (to learn more check my post in what did you do today in ksp1 on the last page) and it as pictured here is 100% stock. Did this layout of parts cross your mind? No? That make me a superior player for this design? Nope. Just a player doing my own thing. Same with Mechjeb or engineer redux or procedural fairings or outer planets or rss or any mod. Just tools to use or not.  Make sense? I hope i made sense. 190502012025

[mrneon]

9 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

From my experience with mechjeb its a valuable tool that fills a gap left by squad way back when. I wont fly without it. Im a licensed rc pilot, have flown a real cessna and am an active sim pilot and autopilot is a wonderful tool and have the opinion if real aviation and space agencies like NASA, JAXA and, ESA use autopilot then I will too. The real issue comes from the extreme right (mechjeb is cheating) or extreme left (mechjeb is the only way) camps getting into fights over it. I cant speak to engineer redux as stock info panels and mechjeb give me information i need just fine. Both are tools to be used or not at YOUR discretion. You own YOUR copy of the game to play as YOU choose. Blaze your trail and blaze it brightly. Play YOUR way. Have YOUR fun. The only style of play that TRULY matters is what works for YOU. Will your way be the way @Bej Kerman plays or how I play? Likely no. Thats a good thing! Just look at the pictures we all upload. By most standards (ignoring parts packs) we all have identical parts yet build craft wildly different from each other. 

This is DOSSP (to learn more check my post in what did you do today in ksp1 on the last page) and it as pictured here is 100% stock. Did this layout of parts cross your mind? No? That make me a superior player for this design? Nope. Just a player doing my own thing. Same with Mechjeb or engineer redux or procedural fairings or outer planets or rss or any mod. Just tools to use or not.  Make sense? I hope i made sense. 190502012025

Yeah, I guess we're all just different players. Maybe I'll see KER and MechJeb for myself.

[AlamoVampire]

@mrneon i cannot recommend mechjeb highly enough! It taught me how my ships fly. Its why I was able to manually rendezvous and dock with an asteroid in my science save. Its also performing a launch as i type this! Teehee. Its a great tool and works well! Best of luck! 044202022025

[Meecrob]

On 2/1/2025 at 3:50 PM, mrneon said:

Every single time i see people play KSP with MechJeb, Kerbal Engineer Redux and other helping mods, usually to tell them info. They have several windows to monitor every single thing.

 

And it turns out, i don't do it. In fact, i have BOTH of the mods installed and i barely use them, usually only KER for landing.

 Am i doing something wrong? Should i be locked up in an asylum? Or am i superior for not giving a flying Kerbal in Eve's upper atmosphere about the advanced information on orbit, planets, atmosphere and vessel parameters?

No, you are doing it right! Those tools are just crutches. Toss them aside and fly seat-of-the-pants

On 2/1/2025 at 7:08 PM, Bej Kerman said:

To be fair, I'm sure people are hesitant to lower their shields after all the drama here

Pfft, okay, you can all be losers while the real people make some conversation

[AlamoVampire]

23 minutes ago, Meecrob said:

Those tools are just crutches. Toss them aside and fly seat-of-the-pants

Mechjeb is not a crutch. it is a valuable tool. Cannot speak for engineer redux as its readouts are provided by stock methods and from mechjeb as well. I am going to be honest here, the fact that stock never had the functionality placed into that MechJeb provides was a huge misstep by squad, same as the attempt at stock fairings when a much superior product exists. I would not have the ability to play KSP were it not for mechjeb. Why do I say this? It taught me how to dock. Are there tutorial manuals and videos on the subject? Of course. Did they help me? Absolutely not. Why? Because they cannot do what mechjeb does. It takes what YOU built and flies it. Teaches you how what you see in your mind will actually perform in the game. I spent HOURS reading and watching tutorials on how to dock back during the way back times of 0.21KSP in 2013. I asked around here on the forums for help. Try as people might, they couldnt help me. I then spent DAYS in KSP trying to dock. Never quite getting it. I would get within a kilometer at times, other times I would come screaming into my target like CSX 8888. My poor cat was traumatized by my frustration. Then one person now lost to my memory and the sands of time mentioned mechjeb. It changed my world. It brought me the ability to play this game. I would never have earned those ribbons you see below this very post and any post I make were it not for mechjeb. Look up in this very thread directly above yours. MechJeb was flying a mission launch for me as I wrote that very post. I ask you this, same as I ask any detractor of mechjeb: Do you think its a crutch when NASA sends automated resupply missions to the ISS <no, i refuse to acknowledge space x as a valid space agency now> or when NASA sent Spirit, Opportunity, Curiosity, Perseverance or Chandra, or James Webb, Hubble, Voyagers 1&2 or any other mission past present or future was using a crutch when they used autopilot and automation? Is it a crutch when I am flying a 777-300ER trans oceanic using my autopilot to keep me on course across the atlantic? Or when real world pilots do the same? You may not use mechjeb and prefer to as you put it, fly by the seat of your pants, but, there is validity in using autopilot and automation. Dismiss it not. That said, those who use it are just as correct as those who do not.  232502022025

Edited 22 hours ago by AlamoVampire

[Meecrob]

22 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

Mechjeb is not a crutch. it is a valuable tool. Cannot speak for engineer redux as its readouts are provided by stock methods and from mechjeb as well. I am going to be honest here, the fact that stock never had the functionality placed into that MechJeb provides was a huge misstep by squad, same as the attempt at stock fairings when a much superior product exists. I would not have the ability to play KSP were it not for mechjeb. Why do I say this? It taught me how to dock. Are there tutorial manuals and videos on the subject? Of course. Did they help me? Absolutely not. Why? Because they cannot do what mechjeb does. It takes what YOU built and flies it. Teaches you how what you see in your mind will actually perform in the game. I spent HOURS reading and watching tutorials on how to dock back during the way back times of 0.21KSP in 2013. I asked around here on the forums for help. Try as people might, they couldnt help me. I then spent DAYS in KSP trying to dock. Never quite getting it. I would get within a kilometer at times, other times I would come screaming into my target like CSX 8888. My poor cat was traumatized by my frustration. Then one person now lost to my memory and the sands of time mentioned mechjeb. It changed my world. It brought me the ability to play this game. I would never have earned those ribbons you see below this very post and any post I make were it not for mechjeb. Look up in this very thread directly above yours. MechJeb was flying a mission launch for me as I wrote that very post. I ask you this, same as I ask any detractor of mechjeb: Do you think its a crutch when NASA sends automated resupply missions to the ISS <no, i refuse to acknowledge space x as a valid space agency now> or when NASA sent Spirit, Opportunity, Curiosity, Perseverance or Chandra, or James Webb, Hubble, Voyagers 1&2 or any other mission past present or future was using a crutch when they used autopilot and automation? Is it a crutch when I am flying a 777-300ER trans oceanic using my autopilot to keep me on course across the atlantic? Or when real world pilots do the same? You may not use mechjeb and prefer to as you put it, fly by the seat of your pants, but, there is validity in using autopilot and automation. Dismiss it not. That said, those who use it are just as correct as those who do not.  232502022025

Look I'm a real life pilot  10,000 hours.
I love that you love Calvin and Hobbes!

[AlamoVampire]

1 hour ago, Meecrob said:

Look I'm a real life pilot  10,000 hours.
I love that you love Calvin and Hobbes!

Im a pilot as well, licensed rc, life long simmer, and about 90 minutes as pic in a cessna. But, thats tangental to what i was talking about beyond using the fact ap is real world valid as is automation, but that does not diminish or dismiss the points i made about mechjeb here. Its not a crutch and disrespects it calling it that. Also serves a point of showing how swiftly the two sides of this get into the thick of it. 
As to Calvin and Hobbes: they are the best! Favorite strip to be sure. 
I dont understand the derision ppl have for mechjeb whether genuine or not its confusing

002202032025 005402032025

Edited 21 hours ago by AlamoVampire

[Bej Kerman]

3 hours ago, Meecrob said:

Look I'm a real life pilot  10,000 hours.

Fascinating. Can you tell me what this panel does?

[AlamoVampire]

27 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Fascinating. Can you tell me what this panel does?

That is a Mode Control Panel. An older style by the looks of it. It is used to tell the autopilot what you want done. What altitude you want it to hold, what heading, what speed, which side is <captain or first officer> is the pilot flying. It also is used to select the course for the ILS beam that will help guide you on final approach to the runway helping you maintain centerline. 

a more clear Mode Control Panel image, this is from a 777-300ER. As you can see, this image is showing a speed of 320 knots, a heading of 120 degrees, and holding flight level 340 or 34000 feet.  If you want to know more, you can look up videos on the PMDG 777-300ER and its autopilot. There are some great explanations there.  034402032025

[Bej Kerman]

15 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

That is a Mode Control Panel. An older style by the looks of it. It is used to tell the autopilot what you want done. What altitude you want it to hold, what heading, what speed, which side is <captain or first officer> is the pilot flying. It also is used to select the course for the ILS beam that will help guide you on final approach to the runway helping you maintain centerline. 

Yep! This particular MCP is from the 747-200. Some of the autothrottle controls are down on the throttle pedestal. I'm particularly curious about how often Meecrob has actually seen MCPs in their supposed 10,000 hours of flying, if those supposed 10,000 hours are what they use to argue against MJ. 

[Meecrob]

6 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

Im a pilot as well, licensed rc, life long simmer, and about 90 minutes as pic in a cessna. But, thats tangental to what i was talking about beyond using the fact ap is real world valid as is automation, but that does not diminish or dismiss the points i made about mechjeb here. Its not a crutch and disrespects it calling it that. Also serves a point of showing how swiftly the two sides of this get into the thick of it. 
As to Calvin and Hobbes: they are the best! Favorite strip to be sure. 
I dont understand the derision ppl have for mechjeb whether genuine or not its confusing

002202032025 005402032025

I'm just clowning with you re:autopilot. You're a cool dude

3 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Fascinating. Can you tell me what this panel does?

It's the glareshield

[Scarecrow71]

11 hours ago, Meecrob said:

Those tools are just crutches.

That's an insult to those of us who aren't real-life pilots.  It's akin to me telling you that playing a guitar through modeling amp is a crutch and that, because I know how to do it, you should also just use a boatload of pedals that you don't know how to use.  Or to tell you that CAD software is a crutch and you should really draw in-depth architectural designs by hand.

As I pointed out above, people get to play this game the way they want to.  Whatever way is right for them, not what is right for you.  Some of us - myself included - use MJ to do menial tasks that we already know how to do but have become bored with doing it.  Like launch to LKO, or landing on the Mun or Gilly.  We CAN do those things, but we choose to let the computer do them for us.  That doesn't make us wrong, or that we are using some kind of crutch.

Oh, and how did all those negotiations to purchase the IP go last year?

[jimmymcgoochie]

There’s nothing wrong with using MechJeb et al, or not using them. I use them all the time, but then again I spend nearly all my KSP hours doing RP-1 and it’s more or less required. They make things easier and are worth the time it takes to learn how to use them, but nobody can force you to- it’s your game, play it how you want.

[N_Danger]

 Please point to me which manned space flight mission in real life(using rockets. I see you X-15) used nothing but the input from the pilot to control the vessel. From lift off.

KER with the information read outs is just that a mission control center would  have access to during flight.

 That said using mech jeb helped me to learn how fly without most of MJ's various auto pilots, eventualy (I still use an auto pilot for ascent to orbit).

So any use of an auto-pilot, from personal experience,  will help with learning how to fly with out them.

In fact you have to know when to take over from the auto pilot when circumstances require it.