[0.21.1] KAS v0.4.3 - Struts, pipes, part storage, containers, merged winches & more

[Majiir]

At last, do you know if you Github licence and wiki text are licencied ? I wanted to take it as a base for making mine (so it will be pretty similar)

The Kethane license isn't very well-written. I just made it up, and I'm not a lawyer. That said, it works well enough for KSP purposes, and you're welcome to copy and modify it if you really want.

[wasmic]

during my absence.

Does this mean that you'll come back? I hope so

Good luck kospY

[jinks]

Just adding my 0.02€ to the license question.

Everybody who downloaded KAS under GPL can of course use it under that terms forever. (The version they downloaded.)

Since you are the sole author, you can change the license at any time. (This changes if you accept contributions)

You can also release the code to different people under different terms. (Dual-license) (if some of those licenses allow redistribution, those people can of course rerelease their copy of KAS under that license)

Regarding the C# source code:

Actually a copyleft license like the GPL (or the EPL) are not a bad choice for something like a mod. It ensures the code stays free no matter what happens, so even if everybody involved somehow completely disappears, this allows anybody to continue the project. Also, some parts of KAS might be interesting for other mods which could then include them if they use a compatible license.

If you worry about forks, don't! First, forks are a social problem, not a license problem. Second, forks are actually pretty uncommon in the open source community. It is usually considered the better option to contribute to an existing project (think github pull requests) than to make a fork and compete with the original.

Even if there were forks, you, or whoever you hand the reigns to, still "own" the name KAS (names and trademarks still have some pull, even when not registered) and I'm sure Squad would help you enforcing that.

Regarding the assets (models, etc.):

CreativeCommons usually has you covered for all things you want to release for free (as in no money). The Attribution License (CC-BY) is normally the best choice for this kind of project. You can add NoDerivs (CC-BY-ND) if you don't want anybody to use similar models based on your originals for anything. Be careful with the NonCommercial variants (CC-NC), technically these disallow e.g. youtubers with monetized channels to show KAS models in their videos. (Even if you wouldn't drag them to court, people tend to stay away from things that exposes them to even the possibility. (Creative Commons itself advise against CC-ND).

Conclusion:

KAS as a project is too important to be lost to the sands of time, please take good care of it and find it a good home.

[Ratzap]

Really thank you for the clarification. So I will revert to a more restrictive licence for now. That will let me time to think about what I want to do exactly.

At last, do you know if you Github licence and wiki text are licencied ? I wanted to take it as a base for making mine (so it will be pretty similar)

Just a question Kospy but have you considered contacting Squad to see if they would like to bring KAS into KSP proper? I (and I'm sure many others) really feel KAS is a vital piece of KSP infrastructure and it would be well placed inside the official release.

[regex]

I'm hope that this licence will be ok for KAS. I like the fact that anyone can contribute, but I must agree that I don't want ten version of a forked KAS, that will not be good for the KSP community.

The GPL does not protect against forking. In fact, it is designed specifically to protect forking, like any open source license. If you decide to leave the project anyone can pick it up and use it whole or in pieces, as they see fit, pursuant to the terms of the license (the GPL in this case). In fact, they can do that even if you decide to continue the project.

[wasmic]

How close is v0.4 to release? I ask because you have said that you'll make some new winches, so if I download now, will I lose my crafts once you update to 0.4? I'd rather not, so the question is if I should wait until 0.4 or just download now.

[Torminator]

How close is v0.4 to release? I ask because you have said that you'll make some new winches, so if I download now, will I lose my crafts once you update to 0.4? I'd rather not, so the question is if I should wait until 0.4 or just download now.

That would only be an issue if he removes parts, which is unlikely, since most of us would probably lose, oh, ALL of our ships

[Moon Goddess]

Just adding my 0.02€ to the license question.

Everybody who downloaded KAS under GPL can of course use it under that terms forever. (The version they downloaded.)

Since you are the sole author, you can change the license at any time. (This changes if you accept contributions)

You can also release the code to different people under different terms. (Dual-license) (if some of those licenses allow redistribution, those people can of course rerelease their copy of KAS under that license)

Regarding the C# source code:

Actually a copyleft license like the GPL (or the EPL) are not a bad choice for something like a mod. It ensures the code stays free no matter what happens, so even if everybody involved somehow completely disappears, this allows anybody to continue the project. Also, some parts of KAS might be interesting for other mods which could then include them if they use a compatible license.

If you worry about forks, don't! First, forks are a social problem, not a license problem. Second, forks are actually pretty uncommon in the open source community. It is usually considered the better option to contribute to an existing project (think github pull requests) than to make a fork and compete with the original.

Even if there were forks, you, or whoever you hand the reigns to, still "own" the name KAS (names and trademarks still have some pull, even when not registered) and I'm sure Squad would help you enforcing that.

Regarding the assets (models, etc.):

CreativeCommons usually has you covered for all things you want to release for free (as in no money). The Attribution License (CC-BY) is normally the best choice for this kind of project. You can add NoDerivs (CC-BY-ND) if you don't want anybody to use similar models based on your originals for anything. Be careful with the NonCommercial variants (CC-NC), technically these disallow e.g. youtubers with monetized channels to show KAS models in their videos. (Even if you wouldn't drag them to court, people tend to stay away from things that exposes them to even the possibility. (Creative Commons itself advise against CC-ND).

Conclusion:

KAS as a project is too important to be lost to the sands of time, please take good care of it and find it a good home.

Please take this advice. Your decision to release it GPL was not a bad one even if that does allow someone to release a competing Kerbal Clinginess Pack, people will still know the original, and it's highly unlikely to happen.

[captainreynolds]

Hey everyone. I'm using the latest KAS with .21. Having some issues with my rover rolling over and over, and just generally losing control of my rover during and after I attach it using the vertical winch with a dismountable radial connector.

After I undock, the rover is completely uncontrollable, aside from the brakes. Toggling torque on my inline reaction wheels does nothing to let me move it around, and I can't drive it either. Steering seems to work though.

Is this because it's not compatible with KSP .21?

[Torminator]

Definitely compatible, I have not experienced that issue. Very strange. Can you replicate it with a second instance of those vehicles? (I.E., launch a new one, try from there using hacked gravity or whatever is necessary)

Also, the control issue sounds like a loss of power. Is it that?

[captainreynolds]

Nope, plenty of power! I'll give it a quick try with new vehicles.

[captainreynolds]

Okay, gave it a try with new vehicles and it is still happening. Here is a video of the problem! You can see the rover start to flip over backwards for no reason once I connect it to the Lander.

Here is a video I took of the problem happening. Might still be processing. Higher quality should show up in a little bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vysmU3RKhBc

[Torminator]

Weird. Very weird. I'm sorry I can't help you, but hopefully someone more knowledgeable about the plugin might have some ideas.

[smunisto]

Among all the talk of licenses the topic of the next release ETA kind of disappeared. I am purposedly holding off my designs using KAS out of fears the next version will break compatibility, or will introduce additional parts which would be better and would act as replacements for old ones.So is there any ETA on the new version, even a rough one?

[jinks]

You can see the rover start to flip over backwards for no reason once I connect it to the Lander.

I've had the same problem for quite some time. It might be some bad mod interaction, but I'm not entirely sure. I have ~30 mods installed and couldn't be bothered to track it down yet.

I found a workaround to the problem though. When you plug in the connector, do it in undocked mode, then go to the winch GUI and change it to docked. That usually prevents the several parts of your new, combined craft from careening about.

[Radiokopf]

Anyway, I decided to stop working on KAS starting October, as I will need to focus on my professional project at this time (working to get a new diploma)

So I'm finishing to work on the last features and I hope to get the time to finish the new integrated winch.

I'm also working to move to Github and will start looking for someone to take over the project.

Is think thats the ETA i would love to have it as early as possible evean if its just for testing things. I stoped plaing and startet makeing Ironcoross mod have a greenhouse, water, food and wastes just after i saw whats possible with KAS 0.4 and lost my interest in doing things without the attachable packs. Someone knows if there is some other king of "backpacks" or if it is possible allready ?

Also, for when you dont work on KAS no longer: Thank you for your great work! Its the single most useful mod there is and also a lot of Fun to dick around with.

[maltesh]

Okay, gave it a try with new vehicles and it is still happening. Here is a video of the problem! You can see the rover start to flip over backwards for no reason once I connect it to the Lander. Here is a video I took of the problem happening. Might still be processing. Higher quality should show up in a little bit.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vysmU3RKhBc

It looks like your winch may be connected to the rest of your rover by a Cubic Octagonal Strut, which is a physicsless part.In my experience, that results in undesirable floaty behavior when attached. In the above pictured situation, rebuilding the Kethane miner using an I-beam to allow radial attachment of the winch instead of using a cubic octagonal strut prevented the problem.

[KerbMav]

Someone said to put the whinch end of the line to "released" so the line could "hang loose" (which it wont visually though) to avoid pulling two crafts closer - but still being out of control after undocking the connector ... hm.

[Ratzap]

It looks like your winch may be connected to the rest of your rover by a Cubic Octagonal Strut, which is a physicsless part.In my experience, that results in undesirable floaty behavior when attached. In the above pictured situation, rebuilding the Kethane miner using an I-beam to allow radial attachment of the winch instead of using a cubic octagonal strut prevented the problem.

Ahhh, now the randomness of some of my ships/rovers getting pulled around and others not becomes clear. Thanks for posting this information as I've been wondering what on earth causes it.

[captainreynolds]

I ensured that the lines were all the way loose each time, and I tried plugging it in undocked, then docking from the winch. Unfortunately neither of these did the trick.

So, I then tried using an I-beam, as Ratzap mentioned above. Using an I-beam there were no strange movements from either craft and my problem is resolved! Thank you guys for all your help and suggestions!

Does anyone know of another, smaller part that will allow me to radially attach the winching system to my rover?

[Secret Squirrel]

editor extensions, you can toggle radial attach.

[Ratzap]

So, I then tried using an I-beam, as Ratzap mentioned above. Using an I-beam there were no strange movements from either craft and my problem is resolved! Thank you guys for all your help and suggestions!

Does anyone know of another, smaller part that will allow me to radially attach the winching system to my rover?

I can't claim for that mate, Maltesh posted I just commented. And such a big round of thanks for him, that 'feature' has been doing my head in!

For radial attachment, get the editor extensions mod my friend. So much goodness, press Alt-R and you can surface mount anything (hilarious explosions may occur on launching).

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/38768-0-21-Editor-Extensions-v0-6-5-Aug-%28EdTools-Editor-Tools-replacement%29

[PhilMcgroin]

So I'd just like to share this. KAS de-orbited my station tug today :/

I was trying to place an electromagnet onto a module of my station that I was decommissioning. But when I plugged the connector into the electromagnet, for some reason the electromagnet suddenly became 35km away.... Or at least, the winch cable was extended by ~35000. I started retracting it (looked like that was going to take about a year), but it was pulling my tug with some crazy force. Then I realised that the direction it was pulling the tug was considerably towards the mun. I unplugged the connector, but it didn't stop my tug getting pulled along. I decided to try and point in the direction of the cable and just burn, which started working... after a while I was building up some good slack, about 5-10km of it, then using the instant cable stretch to yank it all back in. But then I wasn't really paying attention to my velocity, and I overshot its vector, and it started getting tight again. So I tried to turn back and correct it, but by then my orbit was wrecked, my horizontal speed was too slow, and I was falling towards the Mun. I managed to get the cable to within 6 km before I scattered 3 Kerbals across the surface of the Mun.

KAS 1 - Space Program 0

edit: spelling is hard

[KospY]

Thanks to zzz, struts end point now look good

Here is how it look when linking strut

Edited September 7, 2013 by KospY

[Athlonic]

Outstanding !!!!

\o/