[0.21.1] KAS v0.4.3 - Struts, pipes, part storage, containers, merged winches & more

[Ralathon]

I've test the wenches and it still allows fuel transfer through the wench... so what are the pipes for... show? Maybe some code is needed to disable docking mode with the wench for all parts other than EM and Hooks. Forcing the User to use pipes to transfer fuel and power. Real-ishly the wench is nothing more then a high strength rope not suited for even power sharing, let alone fuel transfer through its tiny diameter. Of course if you can get power to transfer and not fuel through some more fancy coding that would be cool.

Anyone having a bug where the game stops drawing objects so all you see is skyscape (no planets, no ships, nothing) and you have to reboot the game to fix it? I've just started experience this ever so often since the new KAS mod installation (then again I remember something like this with FASA asteroid mod months ago but have not installed that mod for some time)

I'm currently at work and yet to actually test the new KAS. But I presume the new pipes work the same as the stock fuel pipes: They allow you to make engines drain fuel automatically without fussing about with transferring the fuel.

You could already do that by running fuel lines to all docking ports. But these new pipes would allow for much more versatile systems. It would also be very handy for Kethane since the converter works like an engine code wise.

[RuBisCO]

I tested the new release and I think I will revert to the old one, at least until the bugs are fixed. Even the most simple of constructions, two vehicles connected via the winch, tend to spontaneously combust. In my first try, just grabbing the winch and starting to walk was enough to blow up my "fuel truck".

And @RuBisCO: please do not test wenches in public forums, there may be minors around

But wenches need to need tested

I'm currently at work and yet to actually test the new KAS. But I presume the new pipes work the same as the stock fuel pipes: They allow you to make engines drain fuel automatically without fussing about with transferring the fuel.

You could already do that by running fuel lines to all docking ports. But these new pipes would allow for much more versatile systems. It would also be very handy for Kethane since the converter works like an engine code wise.

So I have one ship with a full tank and another empty, both have engines, both ships are connected with pipes, I throttle up, on the ship with fuel the engine ignites, the other does not light up, ergo no fuel transfer unless forcing via fuel transfer or TAC fuel transfer.

Edited October 1, 2013 by RuBisCO

[ChrisF0001]

Just as I expected, there's no clean upgrade path.

While winch and connector port models haven't changed (the old detachable port should be trivial to replace with the current port, it looks like just renaming the part will suffice) the connector poses serious problems -- I can't cleanly get the connector out of the save file and the new winch stops working correctly when there's a connector present, even if the model is inert.

Any ideas?

If you do find a way to upgrade, I'd be very interested to know! I'm half considering starting over with a new install myself if there's no way to do it. Maybe there's something to be learned from comparing 'identical' craft files from the old and new versions, but I probably won't have time to do that testing myself for a few days yet...

[hawkinator]

Ressource transfer (winches or pipes)

*Resource transfer (minor typo)

[Kinglet]

YAY UPDATES! Sorry I I am a bit late to the party.

[Radiokopf]

This is worth a whole new Duna Constellation mission architecture build up!

(Okay, whos making a pack for dockingjr., ibeam and stuff with the grab module? )

wow, already did the docking part jr. this was easy....

Edited October 1, 2013 by Radiokopf

[Mihara]

If you do find a way to upgrade, I'd be very interested to know! I'm half considering starting over with a new install myself if there's no way to do it. Maybe there's something to be learned from comparing 'identical' craft files from the old and new versions, but I probably won't have time to do that testing myself for a few days yet...

So far, my best idea is:

1. Add a grab module to all winches, so they are detachable.
   
2. Install just the container parts from the new KAS, remove modules from them. Build and distribute inert containers where winches will be getting replaced.
   
3. Detach all winches, upgrade. At this point, I have no winches and empty containers everywhere.
   
4. Edit save file to replace detachable connectors (which are gone) with regular connectors (which are now detachable)
   
5. Edit save file to put new winches into containers. (That's, thankfully, trivial and works.) Add new grab module to winches so I can attach them where required. Switch to pipes where winches as such are not needed, which is most of the cases where they're used on bases.
   
6. Get kerbals to take winches/pipes from containers and attach as needed, reconnect everything.
   
7. Remove grab modules from where they don't belong.
   

This completes upgrades without losses which require interplanetary launches to restore in my case. It's not ideal, but at least has a decent chance of working without having to rebuild two Extraplanetary Launchpads bases from scratch. The ideal solution would be a method to correctly upgrade a winch and get rid of the connector.

[Ratzap]

I've made an orbital tug to ship out to the Mun, then I can send unpiloted unpowered base segments which it can drag down to the pipe farm

[taniwha]

Mihara: thanks for the great write-up. I'll need that myself. I have only the one base, but rebuilding it would be... dunno what to say. It's been quite the adventure building it. I started it from a seed of 8.1t of metal, an empty large parts hexcan, and pad+workshop, plus several crashed ships.

[Commander Gizmo]

Thanks for this huge update! These new features are awesome!

Unfortunately, I have also experienced the stuck kerbal and exploding parts issue. My first test was with all stock parts besides KAS and one custom RTG. I think this one is a show stopper for me.

To those trying to transfer fuel at range: I'm sure this has been done by others before, but I have put a stack connector and docking port on my winch, then used the Lazor docking camera to line up the ports at 300m (I modifed the winch cable length). Then you just eject and dock. Piece of cake! This seems to be very efficient for me anyway.

[EDIT]

I'd like to report that attempting to select attach and then moving a pipe connector that is already linked to another pipe causes the game to lag severely as if the plugin is stuck in a loop. The lag seemed to continue even once the escape menu finally came up and I attempted to revert to launch.

Also, it seems that when in attach mode the message spells escape as echap. Or maybe I just don't know which key is echap?

[EDIT-2]

Some more details. During testing my kerbal again fell down. This seems to happen when brushing against another object, each time for me it was a KAS object. The last time I was able to grab a nearby connector which was attached to a stored magnet on the side of the ship just above the ground. My kerbal recovered and stood up while the magnet fell underground and exploded. Thus, it would appear that all of these issues are related to things falling underground to some extent. This has only been an issue since installing KAS4. Perhaps somehow it is effecting the physics of ground contact?

Edited October 2, 2013 by Commander Gizmo
More details

[Geckgo]

OMG, you need to email me when you do updates like this

Downloading this tonight and putting it in my new save file. For S--- sake, I've been wishing for EVA struts since I started playing! Thank you so much!!!

Did the tipsy docking while on planet ever get fixed?

[nismobg]

I just made this account to thank you for this insanely good mod, its amazing and the possibilities are kerbalimitless!!! However i noticed 2 crashez while setting a new Minmus kethane base, this is exactly what happen: There was container with pipe conectors next to the ground piylon , 1st bug is when i connect one connector for first time the pylon flies and spins slowly on the ground , keep in mind low grav. at Minmus. When i grab it and redo the conection it all goes well after.

2nd . When i did link to pipes and sudenly Jeb starts drifting helplessly away without control and game crashes. Reloaded , saved, reload and again same crash, but after that no mo crashes. Is it possible the crash to be because of a strut near one of the pipe conectors. It was a humongous strut rom the boat parts mod.

Anyways, thank you again for this AAA+ mod and keep the fire burning.

[Tiron]

I'm currently at work and yet to actually test the new KAS. But I presume the new pipes work the same as the stock fuel pipes: They allow you to make engines drain fuel automatically without fussing about with transferring the fuel.

You could already do that by running fuel lines to all docking ports. But these new pipes would allow for much more versatile systems. It would also be very handy for Kethane since the converter works like an engine code wise.

Actually, they don't. It works as a mostly-rigid, docked-mode-only connection that is placed between the pipe ends in a fashion similar to docking struts. A very simple design failed to crossflow automatically through the pipe.

Seems like it's mostly a dedicated thing for using KAS as an alternative to traditional docking, with the problem of being floppy. It's also DRAMATICALLY lighter than using winches.

[Commander Gizmo]

Actually, they don't. It works as a mostly-rigid, docked-mode-only connection that is placed between the pipe ends in a fashion similar to docking struts. A very simple design failed to crossflow automatically through the pipe.

Seems like it's mostly a dedicated thing for using KAS as an alternative to traditional docking, with the problem of being floppy. It's also DRAMATICALLY lighter than using winches.

And looks WAY cooler too! Since there's no physics with pipes it seems the days of hooking into a radial port and watching everything suddenly leap into the air to it's exploding death are long gone.

[RuBisCO]

Ok this is getting on my nerves: With the new KAS, KSP is no longer stable, when I reload from a save point I now run a good chance of screwing up the game such that instead of focusing on my ship its focusing god knows where! I need to reboot the game every time! I installed a fresh version of the game and everything, this only happens with the new KAS!

[ChrisF0001]

So far, my best idea is:

1. Add a grab module to all winches, so they are detachable.
   
2. Install just the container parts from the new KAS, remove modules from them. Build and distribute inert containers where winches will be getting replaced.
   
3. Detach all winches, upgrade. At this point, I have no winches and empty containers everywhere.
   
4. Edit save file to replace detachable connectors (which are gone) with regular connectors (which are now detachable)
   
5. Edit save file to put new winches into containers. (That's, thankfully, trivial and works.) Add new grab module to winches so I can attach them where required. Switch to pipes where winches as such are not needed, which is most of the cases where they're used on bases.
   
6. Get kerbals to take winches/pipes from containers and attach as needed, reconnect everything.
   
7. Remove grab modules from where they don't belong.
   

This completes upgrades without losses which require interplanetary launches to restore in my case. It's not ideal, but at least has a decent chance of working without having to rebuild two Extraplanetary Launchpads bases from scratch. The ideal solution would be a method to correctly upgrade a winch and get rid of the connector.

Thanks! I think I follow what you mean, though I'll clearly need to test things a bit. I too have an Extraplanetary Launchpad base held together by KAS hoses that I'd rather not have to rebuild...

[Athlonic]

I just can't believe what I read on this last changelog !!!

Awesome work here thank you a lot !

[KospY]

[EDIT]

I'd like to report that attempting to select attach and then moving a pipe connector that is already linked to another pipe causes the game to lag severely as if the plugin is stuck in a loop. The lag seemed to continue even once the escape menu finally came up and I attempted to revert to launch.

Thanks for the report, I will take a look.

[EDIT-2]

Some more details. During testing my kerbal again fell down. This seems to happen when brushing against another object, each time for me it was a KAS object. The last time I was able to grab a nearby connector which was attached to a stored magnet on the side of the ship just above the ground. My kerbal recovered and stood up while the magnet fell underground and exploded. Thus, it would appear that all of these issues are related to things falling underground to some extent. This has only been an issue since installing KAS4. Perhaps somehow it is effecting the physics of ground contact?

This under-ground part spawning is really problematic... This problem come randomly, so it's pretty difficult to find what cause it.

TO ALL KAS USERS : I will need more information, please report me when you get the problem on the forum :

- Describe what you did just before it happen

- Specify with which KAS part it always happen (winches only ? Pipes ? etc...)

- Also list all KAS part present in a 2.5km radius (loaded vessels)

- Does it happen only after the kerbal fell down ?

- Does it happen only when parts are grabbed around ?

Thanks for your help !

Ok this is getting on my nerves: With the new KAS, KSP is no longer stable, when I reload from a save point I now run a good chance of screwing up the game such that instead of focusing on my ship its focusing god knows where! I need to reboot the game every time! I installed a fresh version of the game and everything, this only happens with the new KAS!

Another confirmed problem Can't find out why it happen too, but I think it's related to the under ground part spawning.

Edited October 2, 2013 by KospY

[John FX]

I've got a problem with KAS. Namely, the attachment function won't work. The message appears, but the attachment cursor never activates, so things like the mobile radial attachment ports are useless, and there's no way to, for example, attach a magnet or hook manually to somewhere.

I've got no other mods besides Kerbal Engineer.

Also the other functions of the winch system are rather... inconsistent in how they work. Is there a detailed instruction manual on how to use the various functions? The guide in the OP (technically something like the third post) is fairly general, and doesn't detail the exact usage parameters for everything.

I have the same problem. I cannot perform basic functionality with the winch, yellow plug and things like the grapple and magnet.

[futrtrubl]

I'm having some issues.

Trying to add grabability and storability to the lights from Aviation Lights http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/aviation-lights-v1-2/

I've made a cfg with

@PART[lightbeacon_amber]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = KASModuleGrab			
		evaPartPos = (0.0, 0.0, -0.2)		
		evaPartDir = (0,0,-1)
		attachNodeName = null
		physicJoint = false	
		addPartMass = true
		storable = true
		storedSize = 4
		attachOnPart = true
		attachOnEva = false
		attachOnStatic = false
	}
}
@PART[lightnav_blue]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = KASModuleGrab			
		evaPartPos = (0.0, 0.0, -0.2)		
		evaPartDir = (0,0,-1)
		attachNodeName = null
		physicJoint = false	
		addPartMass = true
		storable = true
		storedSize = 4
		attachOnPart = true
		attachOnEva = false
		attachOnStatic = false
	}
}

The lightnav_blue part shows up and is addable to containers and gains the KAS right-click menu in EVA. Unfortunately "grab"ing it in EVA does nothing and if I take one out of container it doesn't show up but there is a few seconds later an explosion some distance from the ship (on the ground). I am able to select "attach" on an already placed one and move it properly.

More unfortunately the lightbeacon_amber part doesn't seem to get KASified at all. Never mind this issue, there was an invisible character in the name causing problems. Now it shows up but has the same behavior as above.

Perhaps unrelated I was experimenting with "attachOnEva = true" and found that parts with that, like the RCS block (oddly the only stock part with that....), once attached to a kerbal are not removable.

And finally for a feature request; I love that you added rotation to placing parts, but only in one axis. Could we get the full 3 axes?

Edward

Edited October 2, 2013 by futrtrubl

[Gnipu]

Is a robotic core supposed to be able to disconnect the containers? Anyway, I can't do that. I can release them from the clamps when I go EVA, but not by right clicking with automatic core or when assigned to custom key.

[MaHuJa]

TO ALL KAS USERS : I will need more information, please report me when you get the problem on the forum :

- Describe what you did just before it happen

- Specify with which KAS part it always happen (winches only ? Pipes ? etc...)

- Also list all KAS part present in a 2.5km radius (loaded vessels)

- Does it happen only after the kerbal fell down ?

- Does it happen only when parts are grabbed around ?

-I don't know of anything in particular that happened before I saved - I switched away from a moving vessel (out of power means I could not turn on the brakes) and saved - when I loaded that save, my mun base detonated.

-The base in question only had pipes actually in use. However, it happened to all vessels in the area, even those not part of the base.

-The only part I'm not sure was present is the struts. It's possible winches weren't there, and in any case wasn't in use at the time.

- No relation, afaict. It's been happening a lot, though, even when not carrying any parts. It's even happened in space, such that I could not activate the rockets, and jeb just drifted away.

- I did place most of the pipe ends on the ships by means of EVA, prior to this event. No obvious relation.

When I load that game - quicksaved - the base is first rendered on top of the ground, but then it seems like the ground moves upwards (which may be the camera-locked object moving down along with everything else) as soon as the game "activates". I can send you the quicksave, but I have a great number of mods around, including some really old ones. No custom edits currently, though. Opening it in the editor is probably not going to be very useful, but still an option.

--

For the rest of you - pipes are basically a hybrid of strut and winch. It has the homogeneous nature of the strut - both ends are the same piece - and the features of a docked winch cable. Struts cannot be used between separate ships, pipes can - and will then merge them in the same way docking does.

The hook support is placed on any stack point (just like the stack winches); you can then mount a hook (magnet, presumably grapple and perhaps even anchor) onto it instead of a winch.

[Radiokopf]

- Describe what you did just before it happen:

Connected 2 ground pylons with pipes, nothing else on it.

then fell over the landing leg of a craft with containers on it an the kerbal fell.

on load it seems as only the craft i fell over exploded

- Also list all KAS part present in a 2.5km radius (loaded vessels)

No winches

- Does it happen only after the kerbal fell down ? yes

[Secret Squirrel]

I have the same problem. I cannot perform basic functionality with the winch, yellow plug and things like the grapple and magnet.

Quicksave, reload, that will allow you to attach things again I had the same problem, as well as a LOT of others KospY said he is looking into it but for now that's the best fix I have found.

[CERVERUS]

Thanks Kospy,this update(0.4.0) is so rich,you give another dimension to the KSP,i love it!!!