ASAS and SAS together

[Daze]

It's this a big deal or it's pretty useless?

[kookoo_gr]

from what i experienced a few days ago the sas adds torque to your ship so if you have a probe ship you could add an sas module to increase its torque for easier ship maneuvers the sas will lock your ship at a heading

[OneRedBlock]

I put both on all my rockets, because I've been told they don't do the same thing, which I always assumed they did.

[llamatoes]

I usually just stick more probe cores if I want to Torque more.

[toric5]

yes, SAS just adds torque to the movement dampening, not to maneuvering. to add maneuvering, use command modules such as probes or capsules.(they work for steering even if there is no kerbal inside)

[RoboRay]

It's a common misconception, but SAS actually does nothing to help you turn the ship. It merely cancels out rotation.

ASAS is just about always useful to have, unless an Avionics Package is better suited to the mission. SAS modules are pretty much worthless.

[maackey]

SAS modules are pretty much worthless.

Seems like you've never put a SAS on each node of a space station hub. They may not be necessary for most rockets/ships, but are absolutely amazing for stabilizing space stations.

[RoboRay]

I don't have a need to move my space stations.

[Brotoro]

I usually just stick more probe cores if I want to Torque more.

Huh. It never occurred to me to do that...I always just added one of the bigger capsules, but more probe cores would take less mass. Although you'd have to feed them electricity and there's the higher part count as tradeoffs.

[GROOV3ST3R]

But they might feel a need to spin out of control. In which case, SAS will help.

[Peenvogel]

Seems like you've never put a SAS on each node of a space station hub. They may not be necessary for most rockets/ships, but are absolutely amazing for stabilizing space stations.

Aha, so that's why my station has this horrible wobble to it. I love it how I learn more and more each and every day.

[dr_jt]

Consider Kerbals

Edited June 6, 2013 by dr_jt

[Jarod645]

I don't have a need to move my space stations.

If you're talking about the post above you, then I think he means that SAS modules are good to canceling any spinning your Space Station accidentally gets shoved into. It's pretty hard to dock if your station is spinning at about 2 rpm, isn't it?

[RoboRay]

My stations don't usually spin, either. If they do, the various command pods attached to it have enough torque to stop it.

[Levelord]

If you're talking about the post above you, then I think he means that SAS modules are good to canceling any spinning your Space Station accidentally gets shoved into. It's pretty hard to dock if your station is spinning at about 2 rpm, isn't it?

I just time warp and the spinning disappears as it snaps into a static position.

[NeoMorph]

Think of it like this...

ASAS = Kerbol Guidance Computer - Apollo version is this...

SAS = Gyro Stabiliser for smooth flight - Apollo didn't have one but the closest would be the gyro in the inertial navigation system.

Having similar names leads to very confusing situations like the OP in this thread. It's not his fault. I bet we all were clueless at some stage of our KSP adventure.

Edited May 4, 2013 by NeoMorph

[Brotoro]

So the SAS parts are rotation dampeners...and they don't actually provide you with any torque when you try to steer (or when the ASAS tries to point the ship in its set direction). I did not understand that at first, but now I do.

BUT...Do the SAS units also OPPOSE the motions I try to apply with my RCS or capsule torque? Because that would be annoying.

[Vanamonde]

SAS resists rotation while it is turned on, so yes, it will fight RCS. That's why you suspend SAS assist by holding the F key or turn it off by hitting the T key until the maneuver is completed.

[Hrdina]

Mine had a really bad wobble and then I notice that if I turned off all the ASAS units attached the wobble went away.

Can you turn off ASAS units individually?

I have SAS on my station, but if I have any orbiters docked, which have ASAS, the station wobbles like a weeble. I would like to disable the ASAS on my docked ships without disabling the station's SAS.

[Brotoro]

SAS resists rotation while it is turned on, so yes, it will fight RCS. That's why you suspend SAS assist by holding the F key or turn it off by hitting the T key until the maneuver is completed.

Yes, but that's where the bother comes in, having to toggle it off for every little maneuver. I can see where this is helpful if your ship is tiny (especially just a capsule) because then the capsule's amazing torque can cause things to spin so fast that kerbals should be getting squashed against the hull. But for any ship large enough to warrent adding separate SAS modules, this is not a desireable feature. The SAS modules should be smart enough (at least if an ASAS module is present) to NOT oppose my control inputs. In fact, it would be very helpful if the gyros in the SAS units actually worked WITH me to turn the ship. They can be passive dampeners the rest of the time. THAT would be an SAS module I'd find useful.

[EternallySlaying]

Can you turn off ASAS units individually?

I have SAS on my station, but if I have any orbiters docked, which have ASAS, the station wobbles like a weeble. I would like to disable the ASAS on my docked ships without disabling the station's SAS.

As it stands, I'm pretty sure there is no way to do so. I've tried looking through the action groups and right-clicking them, which ASAS units don't have menus for either.

[The Ideal Gas Lawyer]

It's a common misconception, but SAS actually does nothing to help you turn the ship. It merely cancels out rotation.

Wait, seriously? It always seems like my ships turn way better with a 3m SAS module from the H.O.M.E. pack (35 torque)

[RoboRay]

Wait, seriously? It always seems like my ships turn way better with a 3m SAS module from the H.O.M.E. pack (35 torque)

That's a mod part. It's entirely possible that Bobcat has altered its function from the way the regular stock parts work. Or, you're simply mistaken (I could have sworn regular SAS modules did that, too, for a long time.)

In any case, stock SAS modules provide no user-controllable torque. I tested it by measuring rotational rates with different amounts of SAS modules installed (I decoupled them in groups). The fewer I had, the better the ship turned because of the lower mass.

I've also just made a "Control Moment Gyroscope" part that does provide commandable torque. It's just sitting in the "approval queue " at the Spaceport, but I'll post the download link whenever they get around to giving it one.

Edited May 4, 2013 by RoboRay

[magnemoe]

That's a mod part. It's entirely possible that Bobcat has altered its function from the way the regular stock parts work. Or, you're simply mistaken (I could have sworn regular SAS modules did that, too, for a long time.)

In any case, stock SAS modules provide no user-controllable torque. I tested it by measuring rotational rates with different amounts of SAS modules installed (I decoupled them in groups). The fewer I had, the better the ship turned because of the lower mass.

I've also just made a "Control Moment Gyroscope" part that does provide commandable torque. It's just sitting in the "approval queue " at the Spaceport, but I'll post the download link whenever they get around to giving it one.

Quite possible that the home sas is actually an torque module or more probably an powerful sas + torque module, I have another torque module from I mod I always use one or multiple of on large ships.

[magnemoe]

Yes, but that's where the bother comes in, having to toggle it off for every little maneuver. I can see where this is helpful if your ship is tiny (especially just a capsule) because then the capsule's amazing torque can cause things to spin so fast that kerbals should be getting squashed against the hull. But for any ship large enough to warrent adding separate SAS modules, this is not a desireable feature. The SAS modules should be smart enough (at least if an ASAS module is present) to NOT oppose my control inputs. In fact, it would be very helpful if the gyros in the SAS units actually worked WITH me to turn the ship. They can be passive dampeners the rest of the time. THAT would be an SAS module I'd find useful.

I always turn off asas then turning. Thought the point of it was to stop the ship from rotating, yes had the system been a bit smarter it would auto turn off then you press wasd, it could not turn it self on automatically as you usually let the ship rotate until correct position and then turn it on.