Orion aka "Ol' Boom-boom"

[TiktaalikDreaming]

5 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

It just contains xcf files (GIMP image sources) and .ddsified files (backups created by dds converter), every several megabytes and not used by KSP.

That is also true.  But it does contain a bunch of other inefficiencies as well.  But yeah, those are the easy gains.  :-)

[kerbiloid]

Not to be a criticist, but you use 1024x1024 textures for all parts, while most of them are not very high detailed. 512x512 or even 256x256 walls would reduce them a lot.

[TiktaalikDreaming]

11 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Not to be a criticist, but you use 1024x1024 textures for all parts, while most of them are not very high detailed. 512x512 or even 256x256 walls would reduce them a lot.

Yeah, that's where I'm aiming at cutting some space down.  Also, some meshes have their own 1024x1024 texture when they're essentially just one colour.

That said, I repacked without the source files and it's only 15MB.  So I may upload that as an interrum.  I have to rebuild my unity stuff because the Orion things are all from the past (or pre-Unityv5 anyway.  I keep discovering how much of a n00b I was when making these parts.

Anyway, a v 0.32 going up very shortly with plain old size savings based on deleting stuff that isn't used.

[kerbiloid]

As you still haven't killed me:
maybe you would separate captions from the wall textures and place a rectangular/box with a hi-res texture of caption above low-res texture of a dull wall.
(I mean, as an additional small 3d object)

Edited March 15, 2017 by kerbiloid

[TiktaalikDreaming]

Just now, kerbiloid said:

As you still haven't killed me:
maybe you would separate captions from the wall textures and place a rectangular/box with a hi-res texture of capture above low-res texture of a dull wall.

That's on the agenda as well.  Possibly a fuel switch for the loader floors and magazines, but at least shoving all the same model versions in the same folder and then using overlaid textures for captions/labels/signs.  But that'll take a bit longer than deleting some files.  Also, specular maps.  I'd like shiny pistons without shiny everything else.

[TiktaalikDreaming]

OK, I think I have a grasp of what was stopping me getting the original parts working.  It's a combination of the plugin hating multiple copies of the BombXferWindow.cfg file it uses as a temp storage for some settings, AND simply maxing out magazine types.  I already knew about the second, but had cleverly forgotten.

Anyway, I'll be repacking the TD edition AND the Nyrath edition soon.  The existing TD edition manages two copies of the BombXferWindow.cfg file.  And it worked when I first used it, but wouldn't work after I'd exited and come back in.

[HebaruSan]

On 1/2/2016 at 6:41 AM, TiktaalikDreaming said:

OK, this is just an early notification.  I'm going to mod up a Footfall Michael.  Althoguh it may not fit in the hanger.  And I'll feel required to adjust to fit what is now known of Orions.  Back when Footfall was written, Orion was a bunch of press releases dating back from the early sixties, but very little hard data.  So Niven/Pournell had little to go on for putting detail in about the craft.  At the very least I'll be using a flat pusher plate with everything else being in the pusher plate shadow.  Which will mean a central pulse unit dispensor, rather than side mounted cannons.  And probably a bunch of other changes.  I'll also be doing just the propulsion systems, framework, and shield.  Control, weaponry, etc can all be had from other mods or from stock.  In other words, "the Brick" section will be an open framework with lots of attachment points but very little substance of it's own.  I've started some basic work on the Michael, but as I'm rereading Footfall for the first time in decades, I've not settled on a design yet.

Heh, here I was thinking I could throw together a cool Michael with these parts and impress everybody, not realizing it was one of the main topics of discussion on this thread for years. 

Are you still planning to work on this? I tried making a "Brick" out of stock structural panels, but there's not nearly enough room for pairs of real-scale space shuttles on the sides. (I had to fake the ETs with TweakScale-shrunken Jumbo-64s, and after that I didn't have the heart to construct miniature orbiters.)

(Also, a 1.2.* release of your "Orion Bits" set would be greatly appreciated, if you intend to continue supporting them. I used one of those parts between the plate and the brick, so I have to copy the "bits" from my 1.0.5 install whenever I want to play with that craft.)

[HebaruSan]

It's not installing quite correctly via CKAN at the moment. When I load the above craft, I get this:

There are errors in KSP.log for those parts:

[LOG 13:49:57.983] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'USAFOrionTD/USAFOrionTD/Parts/Orion/Structural/LoaderBase86f/fairingSize9/fairingSize86foot'
[ERR 13:49:57.983] PartCompiler: Cannot clone model 'USAFOrionTD/Parts/Orion/Structural/LoaderBase86f/PayloadInterface' as model does not exist
[ERR 13:49:57.983] PartCompiler: Model was not compiled correctly
[ERR 13:49:57.983] PartCompiler: Cannot compile model
[ERR 13:49:57.983] PartCompiler: Cannot compile part
[LOG 13:49:57.983] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'USAFOrionTD/USAFOrionTD/Parts/Orion/Structural/LoaderBase86f/fairingSize9/PLISize86foot'
[ERR 13:49:57.983] PartCompiler: Cannot clone model 'USAFOrionTD/Parts/Orion/Structural/LoaderBase86f/PayloadInterface' as model does not exist
[ERR 13:49:57.983] PartCompiler: Model was not compiled correctly
[ERR 13:49:57.983] PartCompiler: Cannot compile model
[ERR 13:49:57.983] PartCompiler: Cannot compile part

I think that happens because the mod installs to a folder with an extra parent folder called USAFOrionTD which contains nothing but another folder of the same name:

But these parts have full pathnames in them with only one such folder:

PART
{
	name = fairingSize86foot
	module = Part
	author = TD
	
	MODEL
	{
		model = USAFOrionTD/Parts/Orion/Structural/LoaderBase86f/PayloadInterface
		scale = 1, 1, 1
		
	}

I would suggest changing your netkan.txt's "find" line to say "USAFOrionTD/USAFOrionTD" if you don't want to change the part file or structure of the zip.

    "install"   : [
        {
            "find"       : "USAFOrionTD",
            "install_to" : "GameData"
        }
    ],

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by HebaruSan

[TiktaalikDreaming]

3 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

It's not installing quite correctly via CKAN at the moment. When I load the above craft, I get this:

There are errors in KSP.log for those parts:

[LOG 13:49:57.983] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'USAFOrionTD/USAFOrionTD/Parts/Orion/Structural/LoaderBase86f/fairingSize9/fairingSize86foot'
[ERR 13:49:57.983] PartCompiler: Cannot clone model 'USAFOrionTD/Parts/Orion/Structural/LoaderBase86f/PayloadInterface' as model does not exist
[ERR 13:49:57.983] PartCompiler: Model was not compiled correctly
[ERR 13:49:57.983] PartCompiler: Cannot compile model
[ERR 13:49:57.983] PartCompiler: Cannot compile part
[LOG 13:49:57.983] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'USAFOrionTD/USAFOrionTD/Parts/Orion/Structural/LoaderBase86f/fairingSize9/PLISize86foot'
[ERR 13:49:57.983] PartCompiler: Cannot clone model 'USAFOrionTD/Parts/Orion/Structural/LoaderBase86f/PayloadInterface' as model does not exist
[ERR 13:49:57.983] PartCompiler: Model was not compiled correctly
[ERR 13:49:57.983] PartCompiler: Cannot compile model
[ERR 13:49:57.983] PartCompiler: Cannot compile part

I think that happens because the mod installs to a folder with an extra parent folder called USAFOrionTD which contains nothing but another folder of the same name:

But these parts have full pathnames in them with only one such folder:

PART
{
	name = fairingSize86foot
	module = Part
	author = TD
	
	MODEL
	{
		model = USAFOrionTD/Parts/Orion/Structural/LoaderBase86f/PayloadInterface
		scale = 1, 1, 1
		
	}

I would suggest changing your netkan.txt's "find" line to say "USAFOrionTD/USAFOrionTD" if you don't want to change the part file or structure of the zip.

    "install"   : [
        {
            "find"       : "USAFOrionTD",
            "install_to" : "GameData"
        }
    ],

 

Arg, that'll be me not paying attention.  I'll fix up in a bit.  

3 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

Heh, here I was thinking I could throw together a cool Michael with these parts and impress everybody, not realizing it was one of the main topics of discussion on this thread for years. 

Are you still planning to work on this? I tried making a "Brick" out of stock structural panels, but there's not nearly enough room for pairs of real-scale space shuttles on the sides. (I had to fake the ETs with TweakScale-shrunken Jumbo-64s, and after that I didn't have the heart to construct miniature orbiters.)

(Also, a 1.2.* release of your "Orion Bits" set would be greatly appreciated, if you intend to continue supporting them. I used one of those parts between the plate and the brick, so I have to copy the "bits" from my 1.0.5 install whenever I want to play with that craft.)

I can't remember what stage the Michael was up to.  I think I stumbled on some issues, and then the plugin stopped.  There's definitely issues with things of any sort attached to the pusherplate.  I'm sure I can fudge something for that though.

[TiktaalikDreaming]

Updating to fix the fairing now.  Updated the original Nyrath edition as well, as I know a lot of people prefer that one.  It's still 10m.

[des54321]

On 3/2/2017 at 2:38 AM, TiktaalikDreaming said:

Just "mostly dead"  There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead.  Basically, I don't know how to upgrade the modules.  Between the other mods, my day job, I just haven't had time to learn enough C# to even figure out what's going on.

Feel free to offer mad coding skillz.

I might be able to help some. Where can I find the source code?

[TiktaalikDreaming]

5 hours ago, des54321 said:

I might be able to help some. Where can I find the source code?

You're a bit late to the party.  It's up and running again.  The offer is appreciated though.  

The source code is at https://github.com/cerebrate/USAFOrion 

And being Git, you can check out what needed changing.  There was a fair bit of work put in by @FreeThinker to 1.2ify it, which helped greatly (the UI worked for the first time since ksp v0.25 or something) but the engine still wouldn't function, and the second commit from @HebaruSan brought that back alive by figuring out it was missing staging info.

[des54321]

17 hours ago, TiktaalikDreaming said:

You're a bit late to the party.  It's up and running again.  The offer is appreciated though.  

The source code is at https://github.com/cerebrate/USAFOrion 

And being Git, you can check out what needed changing.  There was a fair bit of work put in by @FreeThinker to 1.2ify it, which helped greatly (the UI worked for the first time since ksp v0.25 or something) but the engine still wouldn't function, and the second commit from @HebaruSan brought that back alive by figuring out it was missing staging info.

So it works now?

[TiktaalikDreaming]

6 hours ago, des54321 said:

So it works now?

Yup. 

[des54321]

Where do i find the folder i put in the gamedata folder?

[HebaruSan]

1 hour ago, des54321 said:

Where do i find the folder i put in the gamedata folder?

Try the SpaceDock page:  https://spacedock.info/mod/149/Orion TD Edition

[TiktaalikDreaming]

2 hours ago, des54321 said:

Where do i find the folder i put in the gamedata folder?

As @HebaruSan says, there's a spacedock page to download.

There's actually a choice, two versions.  The TD Edition is more detailed, has more parts etc, but due to that, it's less suitable for slow computers.  The original models are included in this simpler version https://spacedock.info/mod/73/USAF Orion Mod

Both mods use the same plugin, and there's a cap on how many types of magazine is supported by the plugin, so you cannot have both versions installed, or the engines won't work.

For both versions, inside the zip there's a GameData folder.  Copy everything in the zip's GameData folder to ksp's GameData folder.

[Ranchoth]

Another user report—the TD Orion works fine, for me, but the original USAF Orion doesn't seem to, even when installed separately. The staging icon just shows up as a "?" icon.

Other notes:

•A quick and dirty hack of one of the TD Orion Bits RCS quads allows a proper "steam jet" RCS, as long as there's water and a suitable electrical supply onboard, although I had to use Mechjeb's "smartRCS" to "disable RCS throttle when engines are offline." (Otherwise, it thinks the engine is "offline" even when it's activated but not pulsing.)

•The Mun really, visibly rushes up at you when you're burning up at it at 0.0301% of c. Not bad for under five minutes of pure vertical ascent! (And, if my figures are correct, with my test vessel's mass, at that velocity, the kinetic energy of the impact would have equaled abooout...185 kilotons.)

 

[TiktaalikDreaming]

5 hours ago, Ranchoth said:

Another user report—the TD Orion works fine, for me, but the original USAF Orion doesn't seem to, even when installed separately. The staging icon just shows up as a "?" icon.

Other notes:

•A quick and dirty hack of one of the TD Orion Bits RCS quads allows a proper "steam jet" RCS, as long as there's water and a suitable electrical supply onboard, although I had to use Mechjeb's "smartRCS" to "disable RCS throttle when engines are offline." (Otherwise, it thinks the engine is "offline" even when it's activated but not pulsing.)

•The Mun really, visibly rushes up at you when you're burning up at it at 0.0301% of c. Not bad for under five minutes of pure vertical ascent! (And, if my figures are correct, with my test vessel's mass, at that velocity, the kinetic energy of the impact would have equaled abooout...185 kilotons.)

 

The issue you're seeing with the original is what I was seeing originally as well. I'm not 100% sure what causes it yet. 

As for steam based rcs, I'm not sure what the ISP should be, but probably around that of peroxide. Plus minus for concentration of peroxide vs energy dumped into the steam 

[TiktaalikDreaming]

OK, regarding the original edition, I can't get it working either now.  The folder structure's a bit um... odd, now that I look at it, but fixing that doesn't fix the issue.

The other thing that needed messing with back when I did get it working was getting rid of the double up on BombXferWindow.cfg file, but the uploaded version has that fix in place.  I also tried just copying the known working module libraries over.  So, I'm at checking logs and diffing configs stage.  There really is no good reason for it not to work.

[TiktaalikDreaming]

Ran some quick tests this morning, substituting various components of the working Orion with no luck. I haven't had the time for a good look just yet. 

[TiktaalikDreaming]

The non working nyrath edition is starting to be very weird. Hopefully I'll get a clearer view over the weekend when I should have time to look at it properly. 

[TiktaalikDreaming]

More very quick tests.

I seem to be getting contradictory results.  If I take the Nyrath original, switch magazines, then engines, then plugins, etc for files from the TD edition, it never works.  There just doesn't seem to be any single aspect that is preventing it functioning, so as I delete original parts, and add in replacement ones, it doesn't start working.

Now, if I start with a TD edition, and just add in parts from Nyrath's original, they work.  

You can point out that there's then an obvious fix for the issues.  BUT, if I don't figure out what's going on here I'll get stuck with this issue later and no idea what to do.

Again, more complete testing to be done later.  In the few minutes I have for testing this each day this week, it's been frustrating me a fair bit.  So I feel a need to share that frustration.  :-D 

[HebaruSan]

So it sounds like the TD edition parts add some essential vessel-wide module that the Nyrath parts don't?

[TiktaalikDreaming]

2 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

So it sounds like the TD edition parts add some essential vessel-wide module that the Nyrath parts don't?

That's the sort of thing I need to exclude/determine with more testing.  I should probably go about it a tad more rigorously.  I know I checked switching out all the engine parts.  I know I tested switching out all the magazine parts.  I'm unsure now if I tested both.  I think I did, but really can't remember for sure.