Orion aka "Ol' Boom-boom"

[nyrath]

Hi,quick question,I downloaded the mod and installed it,everything shows up in VAB,but the thing is:The engine doesn't show up in my stages list.

I can do arrays just fine and install them and all,I can install the engine too,but it doesn't show up in stages,so It's like it's not even an engine..Any idea why?

That's odd. When you install it in the VAB a standard rocket engine icon should appear in the stage list to the right.

In the image below, I added a capsule, a magazine array, and an engine. As soon as I added the engine the staging icon appeared.

Can you try that and see what happens?

[tom1499]

I just downloaded it an I have to say: This thing is crazy. I used as an engine for my jool big goer rocket spaceship thingy, which I was having engine woes with and boy does it go! It is larger than all of my crew and lander and everything area, crew still arent sure how happy they are with being propelled by Blutonium bombs but thats their problem. The only thing rivalling its size are the Kosmos solar wings! I had to add several struts and redesign it a bit, as 4G's on and off is not very gentle on a space only vessel. I can only hope the crew have installed cushy sofa's, or I will have a lot of green kerbal jelly to clean up.

[Canopus]

I finally found some time to play KSP again and test the newest version of your mod. Really great work.

[Kerbal01]

could you go the extra mile and make some radial NTR and fuel tanks styled for this mod?

[EvilotionCR2]

I feel cheating for using this.

[magnemoe]

I feel cheating for using this.

First it take away the chalenge of putting 200 ton in low Moho orbit.

However it let you make the huge base at Moho north pole you wanted to make.

[Initar]

Great spacecrat, great mod! But i got a problem: the "non-strut" version of the engine, along with the pre-built tanks (the models that can be retextured with the extras, to be precise) are not working at all... On lauch the bomb count goes down by one but nothing happens. Regular version works.

[nyrath]

Ummmm, am I the only person having a problem with my mod? If I stack to items on top of the engine, it blows to kingdom come as soon as I try to lift off.

could you go the extra mile and make some radial NTR and fuel tanks styled for this mod?

To attach to the side? I'm not sure what I can do.

Great spacecrat, great mod! But i got a problem: the "non-strut" version of the engine, along with the pre-built tanks (the models that can be retextured with the extras, to be precise) are not working at all... On lauch the bomb count goes down by one but nothing happens. Regular version works.

Does not work at all? Youch! I'll try and fix it.

[MajorMajor]

Ummmm, am I the only person having a problem with my mod? If I stack to items on top of the engine, it blows to kingdom come as soon as I try to lift off.

Nope. The only things that aren't exploding instantly for me are magazines and structural beams.

When the frame rate lines up just right, I noticed the other parts don't explode immediately. It looks more like the layer just above the magazines disconnects right before the big thrust impulse from the first charge, and then the engine and magazine stack smashes up through them like a battering ram.

[MajorMajor]

delete dupe

Edited August 7, 2013 by MajorMajor

[MajorMajor]

delete dupe

Edited August 7, 2013 by MajorMajor

[Canopus]

The newest version worked for a while and now i experience the same problem as you nyrath. It just explodes once i throttle up.

[Vonar]

nvm, it works. If your using mechjeb make sure to turn off the minimum acceleration on the launch pad

Edited August 8, 2013 by Vonar

[MajorMajor]

I accidentally found a very Kerbal workaround to the insta-pulverization problem. I wanted to see what it would take to duplicate the ship in the Rhys Taylor animation, so I started strapping SRBs around the waist of the orion engine until it could get off the ground. 88 boosters later and some editing of the orion engine's maxTemp to keep it from being vaporized by 88 boosters worth of exhaust, I got off the ground at a decent clip. Once the SRBs burned out, my intrepid test subjects were going up at around 250m/s and I lit off Orion expecting a satisfying mess from 88 SRBs exploding into itty bits. Much to my surprise it didn't happen.

[Canopus]

nvm, it works. If your using mechjeb make sure to turn off the minimum acceleration on the launch pad

I will try that.

[1of6Billion]

Messed around with it yesterday. AWESOME MOD!

Lifting off seemed impossible because of the unplanned spontaneous disassemblies like mentioned above. But when edited into orbit, 3 unlucky Kerbals where beyond Eeloo at 130.000 m/s within the blink of an eye.

I only used the biggest bombs, and that made it next to impossible to finetune a trajectory to get into orbit somewhere

[nyrath]

Nope. The only things that aren't exploding instantly for me are magazines and structural beams.

When the frame rate lines up just right, I noticed the other parts don't explode immediately. It looks more like the layer just above the magazines disconnects right before the big thrust impulse from the first charge, and then the engine and magazine stack smashes up through them like a battering ram.

I accidentally found a very Kerbal workaround to the insta-pulverization problem. I wanted to see what it would take to duplicate the ship in the Rhys Taylor animation, so I started strapping SRBs around the waist of the orion engine until it could get off the ground. 88 boosters later and some editing of the orion engine's maxTemp to keep it from being vaporized by 88 boosters worth of exhaust, I got off the ground at a decent clip. Once the SRBs burned out, my intrepid test subjects were going up at around 250m/s and I lit off Orion expecting a satisfying mess from 88 SRBs exploding into itty bits. Much to my surprise it didn't happen.

The newest version worked for a while and now i experience the same problem as you nyrath. It just explodes once i throttle up.

Something obviously changed in the KSP physics model between 0.20 and 0.21. That's what is happening to me.

If I just place a control pod on top of the Orion engine and launch that, everything is OK.

If I put anything (and any number of things) between the control pod and the engine, upon launch the part disconnects from the control pod (or whatever is above it), they ram, and everything explodes. They do not disconnect if I never hit the spacebar.

Struts have no discernible effect.

Using boosters to launch is a Kerbal solution, but since the Orion excels as a heavy lift engine, that sort of defeats the purpose.

I've tried reducing the mass of everything to 1, turning off the magic mass transfer, but it still goes boom. Maybe it is just because the engine is too huge. But nothing I do seems to fix it. I'm still trying to think of something.

[Markarian421]

Could it be something about the animation colliding with the ground? Apparently they changed some things to try and avoid ships exploding when landing or when loading (which I heard about because I had a lander that was exploding on load anyway). Just a thought, that might explain why it works if it's way off the ground before the engine is activated.

That aside, parts seem much more flimsy and more poorly connected in 0.21, I've heard lots of people mention needing to up the breakingforce & breakingtorque parameters. And I'm using quantum struts on just about everything now.

[ecat]

The problem appears to be related to inertia or shock pulse I guess I could call it. Add a little flex and the parts survive, even if your creation starts to look very strange.

Okay.

Time to play

"Spot The 'Splosion"

a game in which you take a copy of the following images and mark the parts which you think will explode at launch!

Great Fun!

Big Prizes!

<Since humour is very hard to judge on the internet I'll point out the above as a joke. Though it is a game you could still play I will give the answers after the pictures>

Image 1.

Using 3.5MN charges

http://www.i2net.me.uk/files/Games/KerbalSP/Ships/OrionBased/Orion+RCS5a.craft

Image 2

Using 3.5MN charges

http://www.i2net.me.uk/files/Games/KerbalSP/Ships/OrionBased/Orion+RCS5b.craft

Spoiler (Highlight to read):

Image 1: The only tank to explode is the top most RCS tank. Add a vertical 'Modular Girder Segment XL' between the two 'Rockomax Brand Adapters' and all parts survive

Image 2: Normally all parts survive, though one of the large grey tanks may occasionally go bang.

End Spoiler.

[Sufficient Anonymity]

After almost a month of being on the other side of the world from my PC, I'm back and able to play KSP again - the 0.21 update of course means my space program has been reset, and what better thing to base this one around than servicing a single cruiser. Anyway, I've built and launched said cruiser, and am now working on some sort of restocking system (goodness knows how that's going to work).

I've even managed to improve the handling some more (possibly thanks to the SAS/ASAS updates, plus I remembered to fit this one with some really tiny bombs).

There are some things that are not very clear in these images that I should probably mention. Firstly, thanks to TurboNisu for the Kerbalified retexture. Also, some of those B9 HL fuselage sections contain bombs, so, once again, thanks to Nyrath, though this time for making your mod relatively moddable (I must say, I had a few headaches until I realised that extra magazines must be put in the same folder as the rest of the mod, as otherwise the right-click box works fine, though nothing else does).

[Markarian421]

The reason I mention it is my landers were suffering the same kind of death. It appears to happen if you land in just the right spot, and when you load the craft loads below ground. On Eve at least you can find many spots where a saved landed vehicle loads several meters above ground, and a few where it loads below ground. The game shifts the craft to be at ground level, but if it's below ground the shift can be violent -- everything on the top of my (non-Orion) lander would explode. I'm wondering if the bomb drop animation could be triggering the same violent level adjustment, resulting in the same "everything on top explodes" symptom.

[MajorMajor]

The reason I mention it is my landers were suffering the same kind of death. It appears to happen if you land in just the right spot, and when you load the craft loads below ground. On Eve at least you can find many spots where a saved landed vehicle loads several meters above ground, and a few where it loads below ground. The game shifts the craft to be at ground level, but if it's below ground the shift can be violent -- everything on the top of my (non-Orion) lander would explode. I'm wondering if the bomb drop animation could be triggering the same violent level adjustment, resulting in the same "everything on top explodes" symptom.

I think you're onto something. I've just been experimenting with big towers of stability enhancers. As soon as the engine is high enough up that the charge canisters explode before hitting the launch pad, the self destructions stopped.

[nyrath]

On the strength of these leads, I'm going to try altering the charge canister code: removing it, taking away the canister's collision mesh, etc. May take a day or two.

[The Right Trousers]

This might help: it seems if you lift the engine far enough off the ground before launch, it won't explode. This, for example, lifts off just fine:

I raised it all the way to the VAB ceiling. I don't know if it needs that much space below at launch (I was too excited to share this new information to test more ), but it's enough.

Theory: due to KSP changes, the first charge is just above ground level when it goes off. Detecting whether the plate is too near the ground and doing something different (e.g. don't detonate the charge, but subtract one anyway) might be enough to fix this.

[The Right Trousers]

FWIW, thanks for staying on top of this. Next to MechJeb, this is by far my favorite mod. I'm seriously looking forward to parking gigantic fueling stations on all the planetoids again so my SSTOs can flit about all over the solar system.

Edit: Bah. Scooped by MajorMajor, yesterday.

Edited August 9, 2013 by The Right Trousers