[WIP]United Launch Alliance Pack *V1.0RC1 Released*

[Razorcane]

Well the thing is, if you use 1k textures for everything, then the detail levels would be different. Take something like a massive, lengthy first stage, and it uses a 1k or 2k texture. Then take something small, like an RCS block. Using a 1k or 2k on that would be overkill, because you don't need that much detail on such a small piece. And, the detail levels would be much different. The RCS block would still be crystal clear when you zoomed in really close, while the giant first stage would be blurry at close range.

[Razorcane]

I had never heard the 10k rule... But, 96k isn't THAT far over! (Note: Sarcasm) I'm not sure how it'll function, or how I could reduce the tri count without negatively impacting the model. It'll be something to look into tomorrow.

The textures, I believe are 1024x1024? I think.

A good way to cut down on polycounts is to remove details that are not seen/rarely seen. A lot of amateur modelers leave the end caps on cylinders that connect multiple pieces, when that detail is never seen, and doesn't need to be there. I once cut a model's poly count by a few 100,000(It was well over a million) by using this method. My advice would be to dial it down a bit on the engines. The detail under the shroud is very hard to see, and is really a waste of polygons. The shroud itself looks turbosmoothed, and that really drives up a polycount. I think that if you roughened up a lot of the curved edges on it, that would also lower the polygon count. A third option would be to lower the polycount on your cylinder-based objects. A lot of them are tiny, and you could get away with 4-8 sides(which would make it more square, but semantics).

[CluelessModeler]

All good suggestions. I'll see what I can do tomorrow.

I think it's just going to be best if I just have the engine and CBC as one piece. Not separate. I'll make a stand-alone RS-68 at some point.

The bottom is turbosmoothed. It's the only way I could figure out how to make it look like the actual thing without being insanely blocky.

The model is dark on one side because I had it set to import the lamps in the scene as well.

I've never heard anything being discussed about the size of textures. I'm pretty sure that's not relevant. What does have a big effect on performance is the type of file you use for a texture. For instance, .tga vs. .png and the like. All of them have different amounts that they can be compressed by and such.

I'll figure out more stuff later. I'm too tired to deal with this stuff tonight.

[BlazingAngel665]

Alright guys, first off, optimizations!

All Delta IV parts made by Clueless now have custom physics meshes. These are low poly, and highly optimized. The piece with the most polys is the DCSS with a little more then 200 (still too many in my opinion, but a huge optimization over the basic model) I also created placeholders for two bits Clueless hasn't finished yet, note his textures will look much nicer if experience is anything to judge by. The CBC has been in game, with awful lag (this is what prompted the new meshes) and hopefully I can get some beta tests out by Monday. PM for a spot. I also heard that some more pictures were wanted. . . . how about these?

total tris count 139k!!! That can be fixed though.

[NathanKell]

First: Loving the DIV!

I think it's just going to be best if I just have the engine and CBC as one piece. Not separate. I'll make a stand-alone RS-68 at some point.

That would be much appreciated. Also if you would make it without the boattail, just the engine itself. Let us boattail it ourselves.

I've never heard anything being discussed about the size of textures. I'm pretty sure that's not relevant. What does have a big effect on performance is the type of file you use for a texture. For instance, .tga vs. .png and the like. All of them have different amounts that they can be compressed by and such.

Um...have you missed all the threads with people complaining about crashing, and the need for memory reduction mods? :]

Or the giant thread in the Modeling forum called "Devs Please Read: About Textures" or some such.

Anyway, the long and short is: KSP is (a) CPU-limited due to physics and ( memory-limited as a 32bit process. It's not GPU-limited unless you have four-year-old integrated graphics and even then it's probably CPU-limited.

That means that high-detail geometry (as long as it has a low-detail collision mesh) is totally fine. However, high-resolution textures are bad news; if you have the choice between making detail with geometry or making it with a normal map, choose the geometry and use a smaller normal map. A 2048 diffuse and a 512 normal for the CBC should be totally fine, but if you're talking about about many, many 2048s then that's a different story.

Regarding formats: the format on disk has *nothing* do with the format in memory. That's like saying because I sent you a model in 3ds it'll have different geometry than if I exported it as .blend. Nope, just as all geometry must be read in and converted to actual vertices and tris, all textures have to be read in, converted to bitmap, and then compressed. Where it gets complicated is:

1. Textures with 4 channels (i.e. with an alpha channel) take up twice (not just 4/3) as much memory as textures with 3.

2. The png and tga loaders have some issues, both of which rbray89 has corrected; but mbm is still the safest format. That said, remember to name your normal maps whatever_NRM.ext (include the NRM) so that they get dealt with properly (i.e. not compressed to DXT, which is bad for normal maps).

[Chimer4]

Alright guys, first off, optimizations!

All Delta IV parts made by Clueless now have custom physics meshes. These are low poly, and highly optimized. The piece with the most polys is the DCSS with a little more then 200 (still too many in my opinion, but a huge optimization over the basic model) I also created placeholders for two bits Clueless hasn't finished yet, note his textures will look much nicer if experience is anything to judge by. The CBC has been in game, with awful lag (this is what prompted the new meshes) and hopefully I can get some beta tests out by Monday. PM for a spot. I also heard that some more pictures were wanted. . . . how about these?

Snip

total tris count 139k!!! That can be fixed though.

You mean you aren't using standard cylinder meshes? Fire parts like the CCB and DCSS you don't need anything more complex as they are already cylinders. Just make sure when you are doing the fairings and ISA you leave'convex' box unticked (I think that was the one) this is what was causing them to explode with the previous Delta IV.

[BlazingAngel665]

You mean you aren't using standard cylinder meshes? Fire parts like the CCB and DCSS you don't need anything more complex as they are already cylinders. Just make sure when you are doing the fairings and ISA you leave'convex' box unticked (I think that was the one) this is what was causing them to explode with the previous Delta IV.

They are cylinders except for they payload interstage, a cylindrical cone, and the DCSS which is three cylinders and an animation

[CluelessModeler]

I'll combine the DCSS into one thing. That shouldn't be an issue. Then I'll work on cutting down poly counts. But, should it be below 10,000 for the whole model? Or below 10k for each individual part?

Textures should be converted to .mbm when you export from unity, I thought they are at least. If that's true, that shouldn't be an issue.

WRT the boat tail, that is meant to be a part of the CBC. I meant the engine and the parts of it to be a separate part so it could be used elsewhere as well. I'll work on that at a later time though.

I'm going to give the boat tail another shot without using a subsurface modifier. Only time will tell if it looks ok.

Until then, it's time for calculus.

[Guest]

If you could leave RL-10B-2 engine as a separate part, it'd probably help with making a 4m DCSS and Delta III DCSS, as well as enable use on other rockets, which would be neat. Good idea about leaving RS-68 as a separate part, too. But the boattail could indeed use trimming down. I believe that 10k is a figure for the whole model, but you can go a bit over this, I imagine. If going over that limit is necessary to make Delta IV look good, do it.

[NathanKell]

CluelessModeler: Uh, 10k max per part. Modern GPUs can easily push *millions* of tris. A couple hundred k onscreen won't hurt anybody as long as the collision meshes are simple.

Re: textures. Yes, exporting to mbm should be fine; just make sure (a) you disable compression for normal maps and ( have NRM in the filename for (and only for) normal maps. Also, as I said above, a 2048 diffuse or two is fine (as long as no alpha channel!) for the CBC, but keep your normal maps much lower if you can (and as Razorcane says above, you don't *need* large textures for small parts).

Also, even if you do make a CBC with a builtin engine, make sure the engine is referencing the same texture as the engine-only part; otherwise you'll have duplicate textures. Check out how FASA does things for example: it has multiple models in the same folder, so they can share the same few texture pages.

Finally re: boattailless engine, just for clarity this is what I meant (apologies if I were already clear)

No boattail, and no stupid KSP "engine mount" that's actually the bottom of a tank...

[CluelessModeler]

I knew that's what you meant for the boat tailless model. That was my plan!

[NathanKell]

Excellent!

I'm just extra careful because I'm *sooo* sick of "here's an engine. Oh, and it has 1/4 of a fuel tank attached because...KSP."

[CluelessModeler]

Yeah, I hear ya! Might release a second one with the tank for people who want it. But, that's later on.

[CluelessModeler]

Did some optimizations of my own, cut the tri's from 96k to a little over 14.3k for the whole model.

Delta IV Heavy (click to view in 3D)

[Kerbal01]

anything new on either of the deltas?

[Naten]

Elon Kerman: Yep, definitely Krussian rockets

I remember, oh, yes. Mr. Desmond Tiny's models. 10k... that number scares me...

when compact rocketry wasn't ded'd, he made a 12k poly model ;_;

[scorchdestroya]

So... How's it goin'?

[Kartoffelkuchen]

Have you already started to work on the Delta II? I'm interested how your will look, anyway, I really like your models!

[Kerbal01]

check out the release thread, more pictures and progress.

[samroberts]

I wasn't able to find the release thread, would someone direct me to it -A lost soul

[Kartoffelkuchen]

Here you go, even if this is quiete outdated..http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/37274-United-Launch-Alliance

[shoe7ess]

I'm wondering, I downloaded the outdated set and added nodes so they would appear in my 23.5 game. Have the outdated rockets been updated to at least that point? Or would I have to go through and add the categories/nodes at which they appear in the tech tree if I downloaded it for .90?

[Sampa]

Nice, taking some initiative, but I think BlazingAngel is working on one of the delta's, you should talk to him.

Hey, nothing wrong with a little competition, is there?