long term missions + mods = pointless?

[Motokid600]

So I'm building a nice infastructure in the solar system. Some ships using mods some not, but what's the point? .20 just came out. Mods are just now getting updated. So when .21 comes out soon.. it all breaks. Even stock parts are doomed. All my landers end up a mile below the surface. Everythings lost... So what now? Start over? Id rather not... This is the only thing bumbing me out about this game. All my work goes to **** every update. So.. all my future plans.. screw em or what?

[Spatzimaus]

What you do is simple: don't update. Wait until the mods you use have updated to the new system before making the transition. I'm still running 19.1 on my own machine, because none of the 20 improvements matter to me as much as working mods do.

[BubbaWilkins]

So I'm building a nice infastructure in the solar system. Some ships using mods some not, but what's the point? .20 just came out. Mods are just now getting updated. So when .21 comes out soon.. it all breaks. Even stock parts are doomed. All my landers end up a mile below the surface. Everythings lost... So what now? Start over? Id rather not... This is the only thing bumbing me out about this game. All my work goes to **** every update. So.. all my future plans.. screw em or what?

I expect that most mods won't have issues with the next couple of patches. The new file structure is there to help that sort of thing.

[Camelotking524]

Considering I've been here since 0.17, I feel your pain bro. Just every update, retire the old designs and start anew. Every update my designs get more effective and more streamlined.

[Spatzimaus]

The new file structure is there to help that sort of thing.

Depends. When they add a new aerodynamics model, parts might have to have some new piece of information that isn't there currently; regardless of file structure, that'll break things unless they keep the current system as some sort of default backup system. The same goes for the fuel tanks once we get tunable sizes (necessary for the new resource system). It's possible that these sorts of things will break many (if not most) mods once they're implemented.

[Uberick]

Don't lose hope! Remember that the game is still in development phase, and fast development is a good thing!

[MR4Y]

You saying it like SQUAD changed the folder structure at every single release, including the hotfix ones. Also, some big mods worked like normal in their 0.19 versions even when 0.20 was released, only requiring a few tweaks to work properly. Then the mod maker would make a fully compatible version later. So, it's not that every new version of KSP makes all mods unusable.

With 0.20, at least one mod was rendered redundant (Haystack), so I believe some functionality mods suffer the risk of getting obsolete.

[Aeshi]

You think you have it bad? Us Mac players have to re-download (and then re-install) the entire frickin' game EVERY time we want to update!

[Johnno]

All my landers end up a mile below the surface.

They fixed that, all my stuff that was below the surface is fine now. I left it all in the hopes that they'd sort it out, which they did.

Everythings lost... So what now? Start over? Id rather not... This is the only thing bumbing me out about this game. All my work goes to **** every update. So.. all my future plans.. screw em or what?

To be honest you're playing a game in development, you're supposed to be a tester not player. If you've paid for the license you're free to take a break until everything's sorted and there's no risk of setbacks/rollbacks. But even now I haven't lost anything since I started back in 0.18.

Even in 'live' or 'gold' games you have to often update mods/addons, if you don't want to do that then just use stock stuff.

What's the point of anything? Why even play computer games? Why breathe and go about your daily business? Sounds more like you're having a blue day than anything wrong with the game.

[Motokid600]

They fixed that, all my stuff that was below the surface is fine now. I left it all in the hopes that they'd sort it out, which they did.

To be honest you're playing a game in development, you're supposed to be a tester not player. If you've paid for the license you're free to take a break until everything's sorted and there's no risk of setbacks/rollbacks. But even now I haven't lost anything since I started back in 0.18.

Even in 'live' or 'gold' games you have to often update mods/addons, if you don't want to do that then just use stock stuff.

What's the point of anything? Why even play computer games? Why breathe and go about your daily business? Sounds more like you're having a blue day than anything wrong with the game.

lol na just bumbed that any plans I have for the game cannot be long term. But you guys are right. Development is what you want to see. I guess I can always disable auto update in steam.

[wbcundiff]

Considering I've been here since 0.17, I feel your pain bro. Just every update, retire the old designs and start anew. Every update my designs get more effective and more streamlined.

i second this. I was really bummed when I lost my space station, but it prompted me to come up with a redesign for the same purpose and I like the new one better. its sort of a grieving process. once you get through the anger and denial you can start to launch stuff again and move on.

[Rickenbacker]

I don't consider anything I do before 1.0 permanent. Plus I kind of enjoy starting over every new patch, but I'm kinda funny like that . I don't think I ever loaded a save in a strategy game, I just start over - the beginning is the fun part anyway!

[lobsterbark]

You think you have it bad? Us Mac players have to re-download (and then re-install) the entire frickin' game EVERY time we want to update!

You have to do that on the pc as well.

[Merinsan]

I chose to restart my save due to one new feature - Clamp-o-tron Sr. Great for space stations.

Otherwise, I would have just copied my saves over. Yes the terrain was messed up to start with, but they fixed that. I was also impacted by that since I had already put a base on the Mun before 0.20.1 - I fixed it by editing the save file to give them a higher altitude.

[Randox]

It's something you just sort of have to make peace with. Even if you wait for mods to update, every once in awhile the game loses forward compatibility (that is, the save files can't be read by the new version), such as when they overhauled the parts system.

The game is still way in development, and Squad is gracious enough to try and space out compatability crushing updates when they can. But part of the development cycle is that you have ideas, but they are not wholly representative of the end product, especially when you're working on this scale. You find that something doesn't work the way it did in your head, or you get a new idea. There are also parts of the game created quickly as placeholders to make it relatively playable under the foundations are complete, such as the aerodynamic system we currently have. It's crude and unrealistic, but it's good enough for now, and it relies on things like the way parts are described, so that needs to be finalized as much as possible before significant effort is made to fixing anything that relies on it.

This highlights some of the advantages and disadvantages of doing a live alpha like this. On the upside, the feedback is invaluable to a developer at this stage for making a game that will succeed, and better to find out what changes should be made during development than in Beta or upon release, when making large changes is difficult and expensive, often to the point of 'we'll try that next game'. Also, they get funding as they progress, so they require a lot less investment to get the game to the release stage. On the other hand, it adds a lot of time to the development cycle. Squad will have probably added at least 6 months or more to the games development cycle before we clear Alpha, mostly on bug fixing and issues like the patcher.

At the end of the day, I find it helps to look at it like this. Treat alpha states as kickstarter. You are giving them money now to help provide funding for a game that does not yet exist. You are helping to allow that game exist, and contributing for the promise that you will get a copy for your support, often cheaper than at release price. As a bonus, the developer has been gracious enough to allow access to the development builds of the game for their backers so that they can get feedback.

My point is, these versions aren't what you are paying for. That product doesn't exist yet. That you have access to these versions is a favor, and Squad does a better job of making them not a royal pain in the butt than most. This game, as it is right now, is a favor for giving them money now. Consider it the interest on your support if you like. I just find that, in that light, the issues that come up with alpha state releases are a lot easier to take in stride than if you approach it as a game that you paid for, because that would mean paying for what is essentially a broken game that is taking months to patch. All about your state of mind really

[OrbitusII]

You have to do that on the pc as well.

Indeed. Until the new patcher is out (I think it's almost ready, they just need to finish bugfixing/testing? o.O) then you will have to redownload every time. It's better than the old patcher, if people remember, which took several hours to complete a download that should have taken 15 minutes at most (for Mac users at least).

[Brotoro]

I held off updating for a while since some mods were not yet updated (and still aren't). And I had some ships turning up underground (a couple rovers so far...haven't checked everything yet)...so I moved them to safer locations in 0.19 and tried updating the save again. For a couple things that have parts that haven't been updated (damned robotics hinges) I made replacement craft and edited them into the save in place of the others. My biggest problem was all the Dishy JEB 9000 units that I have attached to ships spread all over the solar system...but I used the new Dishy Bill 9000 cfg file in place of the old JEB 9000 cfg file, with edits, and all of the old units now link to MechJeb 2.

So, yes... A bother to maintain big projects, but doable.

[Tripod27]

I generally just extract the new version ontop of the old one and let it overwrite and that almost always works perfectly

The only time I've really restarted a game was when I got bored and wanted to start fresh

[magnemoe]

I expect that most mods won't have issues with the next couple of patches. The new file structure is there to help that sort of thing.

Pretty much this, mods worked well from 18 to 19, one option might be to put mod parts on dockable struts. this also let you upgrade mechjeb to 2 and add new functions in orbit.

On large ships I always have an docking port for this.

However changes like adding reentry damage will break existing games, this will break them independent on mods if you are incoming to Jool and has to aerobreak to get into orbit.

[NeoMorph]

I'm actually GLAD SQUAD sorted out the folders... it makes keeping track of what you have installed so much easier now. So when you update to the next version you know what is going on, what files you have installed and what you need to update.

[rodion_herrera]

Have you seen kids playing in a real sandbox in a playground? I've seen kids playing with the usual construction type toys, or shovels and rakes and buckets. But I've also see some kids actually playing out a story or a mini-drama with their action figures, complete with sound effects and lighting. KSP is that sandbox. Now if they change the sand, to the point that your action figures "sink" into the sand, and say the sand is now wet that it might actually break battery-operated toys placed in it, well, that's how a sandbox is--you just have to find a way to adapt to the changes the owners make, because the owners announced that they can change it anytime they want to.

Edited June 6, 2013 by rodion_herrera

[Tripod27]

Have you seen kids playing in a real sandbox in a playground? I've seen kids playing with the usual construction type toys, or shovels and rakes and buckets. But I've also see some kids actually playing out a story or a mini-drama with their action figures, complete with sound effects and lighting. KSP is that sandbox. Now if they change the sand, to the point that your action figures "sink" into the sand, and say the sand is now wet that it might actually break battery-operated toys placed in it, well, that's how a sandbox is--you just have to find a way to adapt to the changes the owners make, because the owners announced that they can change it anytime they want to.

damn solar flares frying all my spaceships, I knew I shoulda used vacuum tubes on everything

[Guest]

Everything I'm doing now is in preparation for version 1.0. Nothing I build is permanent. KSP is, for me, at this point like a fantastic Lego set. One that gets better and better. Why would I want to keep all that old crap hanging about when I can build better, newer, and bigger things? Once the game goes gold, then I'll consider more long-duration structures.

[Bothersome]

So quit depending on mods. The stock game has enough stuff in it to make it fun. In fact, most of the fun is in the challenge to overcome the problems without it being handed to you.

[Brotoro]

So quit depending on mods. The stock game has enough stuff in it to make it fun. In fact, most of the fun is in the challenge to overcome the problems without it being handed to you.

Try and handle seven interplanetary transfers all wanting attention at the same time without Kerbal Alarm Clock? I'd go nuts.