Do you Cheat?

[Rickenbacker]

Do you cheat when playing KSP? Occasionally or regularly?

i would not consider mods like MechJeb a Cheat, but putting your craft into orbit with HyperEdit or editing the savefile is.

I have 2 saves in the moment, one i go completely wild and one i try to play legit. I couldnt stand it and had to edit my savefile once or twice to brig poor Jeb back from the dead.

This is about the millionth time someone asks this same question. Honestly, why do you care what we do in the privacy of our own homes? Just stop.

[TheDarkStar]

This is about the millionth time someone asks this same question. Honestly, why do you care what we do in the privacy of our own homes? Just stop.

If you don't want to answer, don't answer.

On-topic, I don't cheat at all. When I do any missions for the first time, I don't use any mods at all. The only time I've used the debug tool is to mess with Whack-a-Kerbal. Now that I've landed everywhere (and returned from almost everywhere) stock, I've downloaded a few mods like Kethane and KAS. Also, no MechJeb is ever allowed, since I personally see this as cheating (but if someone else wants to use it, they can go ahead).

[Qwertyest]

"Cheating" is a very abstract thing in a single player sandbox game. Pretty much the definition of a sandbox game is to do what you want with it. And what "cheating" actually is would be entirely up to the person whose game world it was. For me, "cheating" would be putting something in orbit that you couldn't physically do if you tried to play under normal game rules (I.E. by editing savefiles and such-like). But I'll happily use quicksave any time I want purely as a time-saver for if I mess up, so I don't have to waste my time re-doing parts of the mission I already know I can do/have just done.

I also have mechjeb installed, but I rarely actually use it's automated flying functions. I mainly use it now purely just for the phase angles for when I'm looking for a launch window to transfer my craft from a Kerbin orbit to other planets.

[Markotiks]

The best way for me to answer this is to revert to my childhood. It's my sandbox and when I'm in my sandbox by myself, there are no rules. I could use whatever tools I want and play whatever I want. Now introduce some other kids into the sandbox and the rules change. Now we all have to play fairly with each other, share our tools, and have some consistency of what we are trying to accomplish together. So as far as I'm concerned, I'm in my sandbox by myself so there is no real or right way for me to play.

[AfailingHORSE]

The only time cheat is when the game cheats me. that is to say, for example, the other day I finally got my 1500 part colony ship to duna only to have a part around the docking port randomly accelerate destroying the entire ship and all 13 kerbals on board. So I hyper edited another ship back in, then burned around duna for a while to get approximately to the fuel level I had before (I had not use RCS at this point)

[Mercy]

How is Mechjeb not cheating but Hyperedit is? They both do the same thing.

Anyway no.

[whatisthisidonteven]

I use MechJeb2 for a lot of guidance and piloting. It's not a cheat, it's computerised guidance, most modern rockets have it.

I use Hyper Edit to drop test craft into orbits and transfer windows to run test simulations on landing behaviour, transfer times etc. Again this is something modern space programs do all the time.

I don't 'cheat' as in just build all my stuff and put it on planets and the like. Once I hit a good design and the sims prove it will work I go fly it, however that might be (usually several launches then assemble in orbit and then fly it).

If you're looking for a more realistic experience, you can try using ProgCom. Mechjeb is nothing like real life. Not only is it incorrect to say they just press "go" and watch their rocket fly - It's insulting to the people who put years of work into those launches. Also, astronauts are trained to fly their spacecraft manually, as has been done several times. The Moon landing was done manually, for one.

Finally, they design not only the flight path that the rocket will take, but the guidance systems themselves. You have just downloaded a mod and slapped it onto your rocket. Not to mention real life is a totally different thing as they are not dealing with some pixels on a screen, they're dealing with millions of dollars and in some cases, real human lives.

Feel free to use mechjeb all you like, noone is going to (or wants to) stop you, but don't try and say it's more realistic.

Edited June 12, 2013 by whatisthisidonteven

[EvilotionCR2]

Only when I do videos or mess 'round.

[Scotius]

Yesterday i used "Hack gravity" option from Debug menu to check if my outrageously overengineered kethane miner could even fly in straight line (it couldn't ). I would consider it cheating if i'd fly it up anyways - into the orbit, or even to the Mun. Instead i turned off hack, ended the flight and returned to the VAB to rebuild my monstrosity from scratch. So, was it cheating or not? And yes - i do use Mechjeb, and Eve will freeze over before i'll apologise for it

[nimbim]

I've edited save files to save time sending up refueling trips for very laggy constructions... It sucked, but spending 30+ minutes for refueling would have probably been worse.

I use MechJeb to do boring tasks, like fixing the apoapsis while I get something to drink etc, to keep me pointed at the maneuver node and to plan maneuvers most of all.

Also, I'd like to point out that using any Mod or Debug function isn't cheating at all, since it is a sandbox game at this time. Cheating implies any rules are broken, that is not the case (there are no rules).

[Devo]

I cheat on a regular basis, but since I am not really striving for any goals other than my own, it's not really cheating, it's just saving time

[magnemoe]

How is Mechjeb not cheating but Hyperedit is? They both do the same thing.

Anyway no.

Mechjeb is an autopilot, they are pretty common, spacecrafts has been controlled by computers from the beginning or do you think they used joystick and throttle during shuttle launches?

Two unrealistic things about mechjeb, first if the user interface who is a more fancy (maneuverer nodes) but gives fewer options than an real one like the option to set trust on each engine and so on. Second is that it read game data about position and speed. An real system have to get this from external sources if it want accurate date.

Mechjeb is not able to do anything better than an good player with a couple of exceptions like keeping track of 36 air intakes but this is an user interface issue.

Hyperedit let you put anything in any orbit. Its an cheat your purpose is to put an probe in Mun orbit and you use it.

If you try to make worlds smallest Eve accent craft its pretty much needed as you need to try it 20 times or more.

[WhiteWeasel]

Once I gave my rocket infinite fuel for ten seconds because I quickloaded and was facing WEST (partially retro grade) during my gravity turn. I didn't want to relaunch because of some wasted DV.

Edited June 12, 2013 by WhiteWeasel

[BubbaWilkins]

How is Mechjeb not cheating but Hyperedit is? They both do the same thing.

Anyway no.

Mechjeb removes some of the tedium of directly controlling a launch vehicle, but retains all the risks and expenses associated with that activity. Your craft still has to be designed to obtain orbit and survive all the forces of launch. You still have to expend fuel to get there, and you have to have Mechjeb configured correctly or it will fail spectacularly.

Hyperedit has no such downsides. You build a ship, and then all of a sudden it's in a stable orbit? Nevermind that it would have never survived the ascent or had enough fuel/booster sections to get there.

So no, the two are not the same thing, not even close.

For the "Why does it matter, its a single player game crowd?" It's the basic achievement recognition. If you hyperedit a craft into orbit or across the system, you have accomplished nothing. But if you get the same craft there legitimately, that is quite the accomplishment. Doing so gains a certain amount of recognition and acknowledgement within the community.

Hyper-Edit a massive space station into space: Meh.

Build the same space station in a dozen launches: Spectacular.

See the difference?

"We choose to go to the Mun and do these other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard."

[rodion_herrera]

I cheat on a regular basis, but since I am not really striving for any goals other than my own, it's not really cheating, it's just saving time

Same here. I have a day job, so most of my time is devoted to that--KSP provides entertainment in my free time, and since it's my free time, I do things in KSP that keeps me entertained, esp. if it can free up more time for me to play with it.

[Hoa_Binh]

I've played around with hyperedit for a kind of test facility. I don't want to spend 2 hours designing my new Duna rover, launch it only to have it flip or be unable to slow down enough to land. So I would drop the final stage of my rover into Duna orbit around 10 km and see if it can land. If it lands I would then end the flight and launch it for real.

Of course this is something I would expect a real Lauch Stuff Into Space-agency to test in some sort of simulator so I don't really think of it as that much cheating.

[dahud]

I use the debug menu cheats on rare occasion.

When I spend all afternoon building an interplanetary ship in orbit, haul it out to Jool, and discover that I'm 300 m/s short of making orbit, I'm not going to just do it all over again.

When I'm making a video though, I do everything legit or specify that I've cheated and this is all just for funsies.

Edited June 12, 2013 by dahud

[rryy]

I occasionally use the debug menu, but mostly on orbital stages, which have the amount of fuel to deorbit anyway. I sometimes edit the persistence file in case of some bug or something, or trying to launch from KSC2.

[leax256]

a few times, hyper edit for moving something that "fell" underground back to the surface. inf. fuel for the time I had to send replacement modules for a station since ksp decided to not let me undock stuff.

[NASAFanboy]

I cheat.

It is an personal belief of mine that RCS should use liquid fuel. So, I use infinite RCS. I go for realism. I use computers, or what you call Mechjeb. I simply dislike using calculators and such. I'm a engineer, not a pilot. I use Hyperedit as a Plan B. Moonbase flew into orbit? No sweat, Hyperedit fixes it. Space station crashes for no reason? No sweat, click a button and its back.

I simply do not believe in random failures because of "kerbalness". I play the game the way I like it, and I call planets the things I want. (I landed on Mars.).

[entaran]

I'm with NASAFanboy.

I don't understand people going on and on about how Mechjeb isn't an autopilot and your'e DEVALUING REAL ASTRONAUTS etc etc.

Something something single player game. shut up etc.

Seriously are you all so "righteous" that the way you play has to be "Correct" and the others are "cheating"?

[Mercy]

I'm with NASAFanboy.

I don't understand people going on and on about how Mechjeb isn't an autopilot and your'e DEVALUING REAL ASTRONAUTS etc etc.

Something something single player game. shut up etc.

Seriously are you all so "righteous" that the way you play has to be "Correct" and the others are "cheating"?

Who said anything about devaluing real astronauts?

Usually it's Mechjeb users saying "B-but real rockets use computers!"

Nobody's being righteous either, I simply don't see how taking out the part of the game that actually requires some effort and skill isn't cheating. Just because it's singleplayer doesn't mean you can't cheat.

Example -

User one - Hey look guys, I manually piloted this ship all the way to Eeloo, it was really hard but the challenge is what makes the game worth playing!

Audience - Well done!

User 2 - Hey look guys, Mechjeb flew this ship all the way to Eeloo and all I had to do was click a button!

Audience - Well done!

It kinda devalues User 1's achievement, when another person gets the same reward and praise as them simply for letting a program fly the mission.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Ted
Removed inflammatory content.

[Outback_Zach]

I don't "cheat" but that is mostly because the F1-F12 keys on my keyboard are non-functional so no quicksaves for me.

[Aragosnat]

I have only edited ships in and parts out if they are causing a conflict.. Mainly to just to test the vehical out then they get deleted out. As I dont want to wait through the launch proccess every time.

[falofonos]

To cheat - Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage over others, esp. in a game or examination.

I don't cheat in KSP because it is impossible to do so.