[0.90] Magic Smoke Industries Infernal Robotics - 0.19.3

[Kamuchi]

Ran into a weird little bug that I`m still not sure of what caused it.

A basic extendatron refused to work and didn`t use electricity while spamming the log file with errors like mad.

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object at MuMech.MuMechToggle.doTranslation () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 at MuMech.MuMechToggle.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

The problem started while it was connected to the original root part.

After moving it to an assambly and to a new probe core, the problem remained.

Switched the extendatron for a new one didn`t solve the problem either.

Added a probe core inside the fuselage and change it to the root part and the problem was fixed.

Stranges thing, it worked just fine in the sph.

The fix with the probe core showing through the hull:

Thinking this may have been related to the parts being attached to docking ports:

I tried several more configurations but they all worked, except for the original ship.

This might be a rare bug or simply unity crapping out for god knows what reason, but here is the log:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m9fzdw89dhnvvqs/IR%20bug.txt?dl=0

Don`t break your head over it if it`s an unknown bug, just wanted to let you know

Still love the mod and can`t live without it, the sph preview is awsome even if it still has a few issues

[sirkut]

Ran into a weird little bug that I`m still not sure of what caused it.

A basic extendatron refused to work and didn`t use electricity while spamming the log file with errors like mad.

The problem started while it was connected to the original root part.

After moving it to an assambly and to a new probe core, the problem remained.

Switched the extendatron for a new one didn`t solve the problem either.

Added a probe core inside the fuselage and change it to the root part and the problem was fixed.

Stranges thing, it worked just fine in the sph.

http://i.imgur.com/biLo2lr.png

http://i.imgur.com/RguarOw.png

The fix with the probe core showing through the hull:

http://i.imgur.com/epoDQPN.png

Thinking this may have been related to the parts being attached to docking ports:

http://i.imgur.com/s5aclEW.png

I tried several more configurations but they all worked, except for the original ship.

This might be a rare bug or simply unity crapping out for god knows what reason, but here is the log:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m9fzdw89dhnvvqs/IR%20bug.txt?dl=0

Don`t break your head over it if it`s an unknown bug, just wanted to let you know

Still love the mod and can`t live without it, the sph preview is awsome even if it still has a few issues

When I updated to the new 0.19 version which allows moving parts in the VAB/SPH I removed the warning that attaching pistons to docking ports will break things.

[Kamuchi]

When I updated to the new 0.19 version which allows moving parts in the VAB/SPH I removed the warning that attaching pistons to docking ports will break things.

Oh lol, thanks

Funny it worked though in my test ship and every other combination I attempted

[Tortoise]

Please tell which specific tweakscale configuration to install.

[Master Tao]

The only parts of TweakScale 1.44 you need for Infernal Robotics 19.2 are:

• GameData/ModuleManager.2.5.1.dll
  
• GameData/TweakScale/plugins/
  
  • 000Dummy.cfg
    
  • KSPAPIExtensions.dll
    
  • Scale_Redist.dll
    
  • Scale.dll
    

[Carlbergh]

I seem to have trouble with the Telescopic Pistons.

The Piston on the left inserted in the girder works fine after docking and undocking. However the piston attached to the bottom of the orange tank with hexagonal girder and a docking port attached isn't. I use two rovers to move the assembly around and if I extend the piston to dock the rover with the tank, after docking the piston stops working and if I try to revert to launch/SPB the game crashes.

[BudgetHedgehog]

I extend the piston to dock the rover with the tank, after docking the piston stops working and if I try to revert to launch/SPB the game crashes.

Seriously sirkut, you need to put this known issue back into the OP :/

@Carlbergh - yes, that's a known issue with docking and undocking ports connected to IR parts and screwing up all kinds of parent/child associations, resulting in the wonkiness you report. From memory, sirkut said he'd try to work on this bug for the next update, but in the meantime, there's no fix, no workaround, just don't do it. If you have a save or craft from before you docked, I suggest reloading that and going from there. EDIT: From a few posts up:

When I updated to the new 0.19 version which allows moving parts in the VAB/SPH I removed the warning that attaching pistons to docking ports will break things.

Edited November 9, 2014 by ObsessedWithKSP

[Carlbergh]

Stuff

Yeah, I tried to work around that but spacing the docking port with a hexagonal girder. That didn't work either Thanks though.

[Master Tao]

Yeah, I tried to work around that but spacing the docking port with a hexagonal girder. That didn't work either Thanks though.

I swear sirkut said that no one would try to wokr around it that way. There's been talk of preventing anyone from attaching docking ports to IR parts, but not if you stick a hexagonal girder between them...

Anyway, here's a brief description and the best workaround I've used:

Docking directly using IR parts is not supported and can destroy your ships. Any IR part that moves a docking port can cause this issue.

One way to get a similar effect in game is to use KAS magnets: grab the target with a magnetic arm (which doesn't dock) and then move the ship into position to dock.

[Carlbergh]

I swear sirkut said that no one would try to wokr around it that way. There's been talk of preventing anyone from attaching docking ports to IR parts, but not if you stick a hexagonal girder between them...

Anyway, here's a brief description and the best workaround I've used:

That's not a terrible idea actually, thank you! I orginially thought that the crashes was caused by KAS so I tried uninstalling that but now there's reason to install it again I guess

[Galane]

When I first installed IR back a few IR and KSP versions ago, the first thing I did was build a robot arm with DROMOMAN parts with an IR piston on the end with a hinge on the end of that, topped off with a docking port.

Worked perfectly fine on a Mun rover but it was hard to get the ports to attach. Had to ram the lander almost hard enough to knock it over and shifting the weight of the Kethane drills from lander to rover didn't make the lander any more fuel efficient.

Anyway, at some point attaching docking ports to IR parts worked, so what's interfered with that?

[nli2work]

got a strange one... IR button doesn't show in blizzy Toolbar or KSP plugin bar. replaced KSPAPIExtention.dll from TweakScale with new one from InfernalRobotics. Logs show DLLs loaded with no errors, all parts show up correctly, right click in Editor shows IR related menu items, KSPAPIExtention is loaded, configured blizzy Toolbar to show IR buttons, the buttons only show briefly between scene change.

Edited November 11, 2014 by nli2work

[Master Tao]

The current version of TweakScale (and the only version that supports KSP 0.25) comes with the same KSPAPIExtensions as Infernal Robotics. If replacing one of them changes things, at least one of those mods is outdated.

If updating all of your mods doesn't fix the problem, please actually post the output log along with your mods and their versions.

[Master Tao]

Do you mean the IR button no longer appears in the stock toolbar? That's intentional – if you install blizzy's Toolbar, the IR button moves there, though you still have to set it up in the editor and in flight. That matches up with the log.

That sounds different from your initial issue, though, so you may need to keep adding in mods.

[nli2work]

ModularFuelTanks. toolbar disappears when root part is added in Editor mode. KSPAPIExtensions ? replaced MFT KSPAPIExtensions with one from IR. still same.

Logs, no errors from what I can tell. but pretty sure Toolbar shouldn't disappear after adding a part in Editor

http://www./view/4h6a16t66iphbun/MFT_IR_Log.txt

Edited November 11, 2014 by nli2work

[Master Tao]

Please stop replacing KSPAPIExtensions with other versions. Only the most recent version runs and each mod that includes it expects to find the version it came with. It's only working now because the changes between versions are so slight. In the case of MFT 5.2.3 + IR 0.19.2, the included KAE plugins are already the same.

That said, I can confirm this issue as an interaction between MFT, IR, and blizzy's Toolbar.

KSP: 0.25 32-bit OS X/Windows

Mods: Toolbar 1.7.7, IR 0.19.2, MFT 5.2.3

Reproduction Steps:

1. Add the white IR button to the in-editor Toolbar
   
2. Add a root part, such as a command pod.
   

The IR button will disappear. If it's the only button in the Toolbar, the entire Toolbar will disappear. If another button is present, only the IR button disappears, but it can't be reenabled in the Toolbar.

[sirkut]

When I first installed IR back a few IR and KSP versions ago, the first thing I did was build a robot arm with DROMOMAN parts with an IR piston on the end with a hinge on the end of that, topped off with a docking port.

Worked perfectly fine on a Mun rover but it was hard to get the ports to attach. Had to ram the lander almost hard enough to knock it over and shifting the weight of the Kethane drills from lander to rover didn't make the lander any more fuel efficient.

Anyway, at some point attaching docking ports to IR parts worked, so what's interfered with that?

It's broken because Squad redid all the attachment nodes in the game and created PartJoint(configurable joints). I'm not sure if you recall but IR was broken for quite a while due to that particular update.

[Dire_Squid]

Yesterday, I tried out two Gantry Rails inside a MK2 cargo bay (attached on either side using tiny cubes and two spaceplane probe cores, and joined together with a series of square plates)... long-story short, I made a liftable "bay" floor.

Why's it relevant to any of you? Well, considering I usually just mess with Guide Rails, and practically nothing else (SOMETIMES using 90 Degree hinges), I'm slowly figuring out how to work each part.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Dire_Squid

[kcs123]

I don't get it. Does attaching dock port to any IR part break ships or only to pistons ? I have used piston, on piston I have attached hringe, on hringe rotation wheel and on top of rotation wheel I have attached dock port.

I didn't found any problems with it. I'm using those mostly for easier payload deploy/retreive in orbit from proteced cargo bay.

Should I need to attach some other non IR part between rotation wheel and dock port or not use dock port at all ?

IR parts usage is heavy limited if you can't attach dock ports on them directly or indirectly.

[sirkut]

I don't get it. Does attaching dock port to any IR part break ships or only to pistons ? I have used piston, on piston I have attached hringe, on hringe rotation wheel and on top of rotation wheel I have attached dock port.

I didn't found any problems with it. I'm using those mostly for easier payload deploy/retreive in orbit from proteced cargo bay.

Should I need to attach some other non IR part between rotation wheel and dock port or not use dock port at all ?

IR parts usage is heavy limited if you can't attach dock ports on them directly or indirectly.

You must be lucky. The issue is when you have 2 EXACT crafts. Both have pistons, both have docking ports on the pistons. When you dock to the other craft, the "child" craft's piston will not function correctly. Only the active craft's piston will work. THIS is the issue. As for IR parts being heavily limited if you can't use them with docking ports then you are doing it wrong.

Exhibit A:

Exhibit B:

Edited November 12, 2014 by sirkut

[kcs123]

That exibit B certainly shows new insight on IR parts I have saw similar mech a like crafts but nothing like this, that's new to me.

So, if I use piston and dock only on one ship without docking I will not going to have issues with it ? Good to know that, I can continue to use my small orbital deployment crane without much issues. And far as I was able to understand attaching on rotation wheel without piston will not going to couse any issues ? Here is example how I have used it.

That video opens another question: What is that additional ingame scripting tool that allows special purpose IR movment for wings on that plane in demo ?

Is there link for that and possible small tutorial for it ?

I don't need to make such complex design like plane in that video, but I would like to make something that will allow me to quickly move some piston on chosen position. Not center or min/max position but something between. It is better explained trough pictures in galery for my hidraulic landing gears. What I need is some assitance when I carry heavy payload, so the plane does not destroy runway, raising front pistons to certain value for optimal takeoff/landing pitch, move to max position when I need to load/deploy rover trough ramp on tail, move all pistons to center whenever landing gear is raised and move to landing positions when landing gears are lowered.

Should be less complex to make compared to that plane in video

Don't get me wrong, I like this mod, but still learning how to use all parts in more efficient ways.

Edited November 12, 2014 by kcs123

[Darren9]

^ At the moment there's kOS-Scriptable-Autopilot-System and Flight-Computer. Both can only operate action groups (I'm not sure about Flight Computer, haven't tried it properly), Action Groups Extended can increase the number of available action groups. So it's just move back/forward/center for a certain amount of time and stop, kOS can toggle action groups in reaction to almost anything else. kOS will in it's next update have better control, select individual servo's, read angle/extnsion and move them by a desired amount or in reaction to anything else it can read (virtually everything).

Edited November 12, 2014 by Darren9

[kcs123]

Thanks Darren, it seems that is KOS Scriptable Autopilot Sytem on that video. I don't know if it is possible to make everything trough action groups. I don't even need action group extender, one or two action groups I can spare. However pistons got only move to center or move +/- commands available trough action groups. Missing "move to position 0.62 and stop" command for example, so I don't know if it is possible to do such stuff even trough KOS SAS or Flight Computer if those are restricted to commands available trough action groups.

[m1sz]

I need to learn to use kOS, I think it could be used as a stabilization system for robots... mmm, must try it someday!

[erendrake]

Controlling the part buttons directly is a feature that we are releasing very soon for kOS, if you want to get your feet wet in automation come on over to the kOS thread. we are a friendly bunch and we are always helping new scripters get started