Career Mode and Mods

[SleepyWacKo]

I'm not trying to limit fun at all. I'm just trying to keep a level of difficulty in the game so that way Career mode isn't basically sandbox with a few missions. I just want it to be as good as can be, and that is my idea on how to make it so.

you can still keep a level of difficulty by using your own willpower not to use mods. Those that wants to use mods also want to keep a level of difficulty too. There is no right or wrong answer in this debate and i know it's your idea how to make career mode to you liking but there is no reason to limit someone else ability to do what they like. We are all assuming and have our own visions of what career mode will be like and in the end I strongly believe the devs will side on the fact of giving the player the choice to use mods. A compromise would simply be to mark said save game mod enabled if one choose to use mods althouth to me that is rather pointless for a single player game

[SleepyWacKo]

I think I have something that we can all agree on: We all can't agree on some things.

One of life's lessons is that you can't please everybody. Whatever Squad decides on, it'll upset a percentage of the players.

Now lets all hug. I'm tired and drained from the kids and ended the night with a couple if whiskeys. Now I'm in one of those

'Lets all just hug, man' chilled-out moods...

that reminds me to go get a beer!

[SleepyWacKo]

If you think the only reason I don't want mods in career mode is because of my ego, maybe you do need to step back.

FYI, i don't think that is your only reason, but i'm sure it is one of them

[OtherDalfite]

you can still keep a level of difficulty by using your own willpower not to use mods. Those that wants to use mods also want to keep a level of difficulty too. There is no right or wrong answer in this debate and i know it's your idea how to make career mode to you liking but there is no reason to limit someone else ability to do what they like. We are all assuming and have our own visions of what career mode will be like and in the end I strongly believe the devs will side on the fact of giving the player the choice to use mods. A compromise would simply be to mark said save game mod enabled if one choose to use mods althouth to me that is rather pointless for a single player game

Perhaps a sort of "Do it stock first, then mods will be enabled" approach would work? I'm quite sure that stock would eventually get boring, but I really think that everyone should play through stock mode at least once, to get a feel for the game as the devs intended it.

[Rockhem]

Perhaps a sort of "Do it stock first, then mods will be enabled" approach would work? I'm quite sure that stock would eventually get boring, but I really think that everyone should play through stock mode at least once, to get a feel for the game as the devs intended it.

If the devs intended the game to be completely stock and never have mods, they would have never allowed mods.

There is no point in forcing someone to play through something just to get to the "good bits"

It would be like a movie that only had 15 minutes of good movie at the end, and you couldn't fast forward.

Why do you have to restrict everybody else because you lack the brainpower to limit yourself, and you have to have someone do it for you?

[SleepyWacKo]

Perhaps a sort of "Do it stock first, then mods will be enabled" approach would work?

then you are back to the square one question, why force someone to do something one way first? There is no reason to do so if you are going to allow the capability in the end anyways. yes i already know your areguement toward that about learning the ropes of the game etc, but then those same questions of WHY should i care what someone else does?

[sal_vager]

Hey guys don't lose sight of the fact that no one can force you to play KSP in a certain way, stock or modded, people might complain about it but how you play is up to you.

Don't let other peoples opinions control you

[OtherDalfite]

If the devs intended the game to be completely stock and never have mods, they would have never allowed mods.

There is no point in forcing someone to play through something just to get to the "good bits"

It would be like a movie that only had 15 minutes of good movie at the end, and you couldn't fast forward.

Why do you have to restrict everybody else because you lack the brainpower to limit yourself, and you have to have someone do it for you?

Is there a way you could counter my suggestion without trying to insult me? I would appreciate it.

Also, what are you guys talking about as to how it wouldn't make sense to not have some good bits after completing the initial missions? Many games have done this (ie: Terraria, Fallout 3, etc.) Many games have you go through a level initially, and then you can come back and do whatever you like with your preferences.

[SleepyWacKo]

Hey guys don't lose sight of the fact that no one can force you to play KSP in a certain way, stock or modded, people might complain about it but how you play is up to you.

Don't let other peoples opinions control you

yes but some wants the development of KSP to involve forcing people to play in a certain way, that is what most of this thread is about. Personally i'm just trying to get everyone on boths side to have an open mind.

[SleepyWacKo]

Is there a way you could counter my suggestion without trying to insult me? I would appreciate it.

Also, what are you guys talking about as to how it wouldn't make sense to not have some good bits after completing the initial missions? Many games have done this (ie: Terraria, Fallout 3, etc.) Many games have you go through a level initially, and then you can come back and do whatever you like with your preferences.

what? fallout 3 was a complete open end sandbox from the beggining unless you are talking about the tutorial, and this thread is about mods and fallout 3 has no restrictions on mods at all in any way shape or form.

[OtherDalfite]

what? fallout 3 was a complete open end sandbox from the beggining unless you are talking about the tutorial, and this thread is about mods and fallout 3 has no restrictions on mods at all in any way shape or form.

I was referring to the Broken Steel DLC. You had to play through the original storyline to get to it.

[SleepyWacKo]

I was referring to the Broken Steel DLC. You had to play through the original storyline to get to it.

so, what has that to do with mods?

[sal_vager]

yes but some wants the development of KSP to involve forcing people to play in a certain way, that is what most of this thread is about. Personally i'm just trying to get everyone on boths side to have an open mind.

Yes I know, and the devs are very unlikely to go this route, so I apologize to everyone who wants career to be stock only as it's unlikely to be.

It's a single player game, you only cheat yourself, if you can even call it cheating, the idea behind all games is to have fun and if you want to go to Moho with a modded craft then great, have fun flying there.

If you want to later try it stock then also great, it's a challenge either way

[OtherDalfite]

so, what has that to do with mods?

The Broken Steel DLC is a mod. In order to get to the missions and extra content it has, you have to go through the original storyline. It may not be exactly like the situation KSP is in, but it's easily comparable.

[SleepyWacKo]

The Broken Steel DLC is a mod. In order to get to the missions and extra content it has, you have to go through the original storyline. It may not be exactly like the situation KSP is in, but it's easily comparable.

Broken Steal was not a mod, it was an Addon! even if it was a mod, broken steel was designed to be end game content, it was designed to fill in the gaps between level 20 and 30 since it also raised that level cap. what about all the other DLC that you did not have wait to the end game? why only choose the only single DLC that somewhat proves all be it loosely your way of view? It was also developer made content not community made which in of itself makes it not a mod.

[OtherDalfite]

Broken Steal was not a mod, it was an Addon! even if it was a mod, broken steel was designed to be end game content, it was designed to fill in the gaps between level 20 and 30 since it also raised that level cap. what about all the other DLC that you did not have wait to the end game? why only choose the only single DLC that somewhat proves all be it loosely your way of view? It was also developer made content not community made which in of itself makes it not a mod.

Either way, it still changes the game. I stated before that it wasn't necessarily a good comparison. My point was that you played the game Vanilla up till the end, and then you access the new weapons/areas that weren't available before.

[SleepyWacKo]

Either way, it still changes the game. I stated before that it wasn't necessarily a good comparison. My point was that you played the game Vanilla up till the end, and then you access the new weapons/areas that weren't available before.

but your example has nothing to do with using mods, point is moot!

Edited July 12, 2013 by SleepyWacKo

[OtherDalfite]

but this has nothing to do with using mods, point is moot!

Did you read what I posted a while ago about allowing mods simply after beating a few missions in vanilla? The point is perfectly viable in that case. You just refuse to think about it.

[regex]

Either way, it still changes the game. I stated before that it wasn't necessarily a good comparison. My point was that you played the game Vanilla up till the end, and then you access the new weapons/areas that weren't available before.

Fallout (and most other Bethesda open-world RPGs) are terrible examples to make your case with because they are easily modded and Bethesda even provides the modding tools. For instance, I don't play Fallout or Oblivion without mods because they're way too easy as published (Skyrim and FONV were pretty good stock, though).

[OtherDalfite]

Fallout (and most other Bethesda open-world RPGs) are terrible examples to make your case with because they are easily modded and Bethesda even provides the modding tools. For instance, I don't play Fallout or Oblivion without mods because they're way too easy as published (Skyrim and FONV were pretty good stock, though).

KSP is easily modded as well. They both require about the same thing. C7 even wrote a few tutorials. There are even more on Youtube. But yes, I agree. Bethesda games aren't replicas of a Unity game.

[regex]

KSP is easily modded as well.

So what's the point of restricting mods in some future career mode we don't have any concrete information about?

[SleepyWacKo]

Did you read what I posted a while ago about allowing mods simply after beating a few missions in vanilla? The point is perfectly viable in that case. You just refuse to think about it.

yes i read that, but you tried to state an example of another game that would not allow mods until you got so far into it, which was not true(AS fallout 3 could be modded to allow you to play broken steal from the beggining). I'm not the one refusing to think about your view, i'm not the one trying to deny your play style. You are the one refusing to have an open mind, you are the one that is trying to deny a certain gameplay. When in reality simply providing the choice of to use or not use is all we need.

I've had fun debating but i see this may start getting out of hand and also see there is no hope in debating this further with you at least, you seem to be set in your way and unwilling to see that providing a CHOICE is more logical than forcing something on someone. I am 100% confident the devs will provide the choice rather than restrictions, they have thus far in any feature they added

[KWilkiePJ]

Thank you for being civil in your response.

For question 1, I would have to say no, as the devs haven't added the need to watch Oxygen and other gas levels yet, and that it falls under the same categories as RemoteTech or any other mod that increases game challenge.

For question 2, I'd have to say that it's a bit off. SQUAD has said that they will add a sort of thing like automatically doing maeuvers, as you said, but they will have a given chance of failure. This, I would be completely fine with in career mode, so long as the success rate wasn't 100% all the time. Mechjeb does everything exactly as you say, and doesn't give the classic chance of failure vibe as real rocketry does. I'm not with the whole "fly manual or GTFO" group either, I use ASAS on nearly all my craft, and will probably do so even more with the amazing new ASAS system being implemented.

If the system that SQUAD has in mind would be implemented, you would hear no gripes from me. So long as you aren't guaranteed success, then the game still has a bit of difficulty to it. I agree I've been a bit hasty in my responses, so thank you for making me realise that. And I do agree that mods enrich the gaming experience and that modders will eventually find a way to break through.

I agree that Squad doesn't want to lose interest, but they also deeply care about the end product of the game. The creation of ASAS was precisely made to the point that it is to not make the game too easy, but manageable in your flights. If Squad simply bent the will of KSP to what the community wants, it probably wouldn't be the game it is today.

Before I started modding, I made sure I mastered everything by hand, launch, rendezvous, docking and landing. I then added mechjeb to speed up the process of establishing larger vessels like space stations and lunar bases, this is my preference though. I think this is true to life as quite a bit of current space travel is automated, hell the first space vessels made didn't even have a joystick! I disagree about the mechjeb point, mechjeb has crashed me quite a few times randomly. Ultimately, mods allow for variety, and variety is the spice of life! Also, its freedom of choice, let people choose!

[OtherDalfite]

So what's the point of restricting mods in some future career mode we don't have any concrete information about?

There really isn't a point. It's a single player game. All I want is for the devs to not appeal to the Casual Gamers and make KSP even more easy than it already is. I started playing KSP because of it's complexity and near infinite possibilities. I want KSP to retain the difficulty. Mods can cancel that difficulty. And hear you ask "Well some mods make it harder, why don't you want those?" I'll respond to this by saying that even though I want career mode to be difficult, I don't want to overwhelm a new player with extra difficulty mods they may install. This is what sandbox is for. For testing things and having fun with insane parts that wouldn't fit in elsewhere.

People already run artificial careers with sandbox. Hell, we even have a mod for it now. What's to keep you from running your own career mode with sandbox? Either way, this is a circular argument, as we've all just been asking the same questions and getting the same answers. Each of our compromises each have their own set of flaws, and I suppose I've lost here. Mods will probably be included, no matter what I say. Oh well.

[regex]

There really isn't a point. It's a single player game. All I want is for the devs to not appeal to the Casual Gamers and make KSP even more easy than it already is.

The best part about modding is that if the developers stray from the vision of the game you have (a hard game that doesn't appeal to casual gamers), you can always mod the game to play the way you want to play it (a hard game that doesn't appeal to casual gamers).