Career Mode and Mods

[DChurchill]

there's a control freak born every day...

Kid probably wants some sort of online highscore system as well, and is afraid that others will have a higher score than him by "cheating".

He's entitled to his opinion. Give him a break.

[OtherDalfite]

Not every single mod makes the game easier, and its not fun playing toy-like stock parts.

I'm well aware of that. That could also be left to sandbox. As a harder career mode for those that desire it. Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean by toy-like stock parts. Care to elaborate?

[DChurchill]

And I'm imposing my idea of fun on people? You seem to be a bit hypocritical in your response. Also, a LOT of manned spaceflight has been done by hand piloting a craft. Nobody is going to be able to steer a real rocket into orbit in the real world, that's insane. In KSP, we don't have to worry about millions of dollars going up in flames or exploding. We don't have to worry about people dying and having to tell their families what happened to them. Honestly I don't care if you or anyone uses mechjeb, I just want it to stay out of career mode, as that is supposed to be the limited/hard mode of KSP.

Hypocritical? Seriously? How many "for me's" and "play the game any way you like's" do I have to put in my post? I couldn't care less how you play the game. I'm going to play my way, and how you play doesn't affect me in the least. I'm not telling you how to play. I'm telling you how I play. See the difference?

[fatfluffycat]

I'm well aware of that. That could also be left to sandbox. As a harder career mode for those that desire it. Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean by toy-like stock parts. Care to elaborate?

But career mode will be more like running a real space program, rockets and parts cost money, you get money for a completing task, and you'll get punish for a failure. And Mods add so much more to the game. Sandbox there's no goals.

[OtherDalfite]

Hypocritical? Seriously? How many "for me's" and "play the game any way you like's" do I have to put in my post? I couldn't care less how you play the game. I'm going to play my way, and how you play doesn't affect me in the least. I'm not telling you how to play. I'm telling you how I play. See the difference?

I very well understand that you are telling me the way you play and how you don't want to change it. I'm aware that the way I play doesn't affect you and the way you play doesn't affect me. That is besides the point.

This thread is about whether career mode should allow mods or not, and that implies that people will give their opinion and that they will try and convince others as to why it should be that way. That is exactly what is happening right now. I don't get why you take my words to heart, as I don't mean them out of hate. If mods that make the game easier are allowed into KSP's career mode, what is the point of even having one? It may as well be a sandbox if it is made easy by mods. Yes, some mods make it harder, that can be saved for sandbox as well. The KSP career mode should be as the devs intend it to be, with the stock parts. They would have added mechjeb a long time ago if they wanted an autopilot, and HarvesteR has stated that that is not what he wishes for KSP.

[sal_vager]

How about we wait and see how career mode turns out before we get upset over people using addons?

Plus you just know that most modders will try to balance their stuff to fit with career mode

[Akinesis]

Surely the challenge you're seeking is with other people who don't want to use mods. So go challenge those like-minded people. By the sounds of things you know the stock parts well, so if someone is 'cheating' and trying to troll your challenge then you'll know that through your own experience. That's the way I see it.

Let me throw a couple of questions to you. This is not to be rude or anything - I'm just curious of your opinion.

1. I use Ironcross crew support because I want to have to think about oxygen and scrubbers to manage the crews. With stock, this is not supported. So is the stock game itself not cheating in this respect because you don't have to think about this?

2. Squad will bring in a form of autopilot that could rival Mechjeb. An autopilot system is realistic and true to life, but I get the impression that you disagree with this in regards to the game. But when a similar autopilot is brought in as stock, will you u-turn and say that it's suddenly OK? Or will you then be saying that using some stock items in game is still cheating? On which case your argument here would become moot, unless you then suggest that squad deny acces to certain stock parts in career mode?

Me, I'm not with the idea of 'must fly manual or GTFO'. I can fly manual, and I can do it very well. But I don't want to have to manually launch every single time. So I don't. And a lot of other people don't. And I don't really expect to in career mode. Not everyone wants the 'stock or die' challenge, so why must we go through it? To what end? For what reason? So a few competitive folk can compare notes on a single-player game? Pffft.

Even if it was made that way, a modder will find a way to break it anyway. Now, I agree with the Skyrim (I think it was that?) where posted results indicated whether the game was modded or not. That's fine, because the only people who care about that are folks like yourself. But to stamp it out completely? Nope.

People like flexibility. Box them in tight and the majority will lose interest. Squad don't want that.

For most, mods enrich the game-play experience, however that may be. I'd get use to it.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Akinesis
Spelling

[Xaiier]

How about we wait and see how career mode turns out before we get upset over people using addons?

Plus you just know that most modders will try to balance their stuff to fit with career mode

A thousand times this! I don't understand how we got to 16 pages of arguing when career and most of the necessary components for creating it don't even exist yet!

[Akinesis]

A thousand times this! I don't understand how we got to 16 pages of arguing when career and most of the necessary components for creating it don't even exist yet!

Agreed. I've got sucked in twice :S

[Skyrunner27]

2. Squad will bring in a form of autopilot that could rival Mechjeb. An autopilot system is realistic and true to life, but I get the impression that you disagree with this in regards to the game. But when a similar autopilot is brought in as stock, will you u-turn and say that it's suddenly OK? Or will you then be saying that using some stock items in game is still cheating? On which case your argument here would become moot, unless you then suggest that squad deny acces to certain stock parts in career mode?

This will not happen with the current mind set of Squad. They are even having a debate whether or not your crew should be able to control the ship.

[OtherDalfite]

Surely the challenge you're seeking is with other people who don't want to use mods. So go challenge those like-minded people. By the sounds of things you know the stock parts well, so if someone is 'cheating' and trying to troll your challenge then you'll know that through your own experience. That's the way I see it.

Let me throw a couple of questions to you. This is not to be rude or anything - I'm just curious of your opinion.

1. I use Ironcross crew support because I want to have to think about oxygen and scrubbers to manage the crews. With stock, this is not supported. So is the stock game itself not cheating in this respect because you don't have to think about this? A good example, I think.

2. Squad will bring in a form of autopilot that could rival Mechjeb. An autopilot system is realistic and true to life, but I get the impression that you disagree with this in regards to the game. But when a similar autopilot is brought in as stock, will you u-turn and say that's it's suddenly OK? Or will you then be saying that using some stock items in game is still cheating?

Me, I'm not with the idea of 'must fly manual or GTFO'. I can fly manual, and I can do it very well. But I don't want to have to manually launch every single time. So I don't. And a lot of other people don't. And I don't really expect to in career mode. Not everyone wants the 'stock or die' challenge, so why must we go through it? To what end? For what reason? So a few competitive folk can compare notes on a single-player game? Pffft.

Even if it was made that way, a modder will find a way to break it anyway. Now, I agree with the Skyrim (I think it was that?) where posted results indicated whether the game was modded or not. That's fine, because the only people who care about that are folks like yourself. But to stamp it out completely? Nope.

People like flexibility. Box them in tight and the majority will lose interest. Squad don't want that.

For most, mods enrich the game-play experience, however that may be. I'd get use to it.

Thank you for being civil in your response.

For question 1, I would have to say no, as the devs haven't added the need to watch Oxygen and other gas levels yet, and that it falls under the same categories as RemoteTech or any other mod that increases game challenge.

For question 2, I'd have to say that it's a bit off. SQUAD has said that they will add a sort of thing like automatically doing maeuvers, as you said, but they will have a given chance of failure. This, I would be completely fine with in career mode, so long as the success rate wasn't 100% all the time. Mechjeb does everything exactly as you say, and doesn't give the classic chance of failure vibe as real rocketry does. I'm not with the whole "fly manual or GTFO" group either, I use ASAS on nearly all my craft, and will probably do so even more with the amazing new ASAS system being implemented.

If the system that SQUAD has in mind would be implemented, you would hear no gripes from me. So long as you aren't guaranteed success, then the game still has a bit of difficulty to it. I agree I've been a bit hasty in my responses, so thank you for making me realise that. And I do agree that mods enrich the gaming experience and that modders will eventually find a way to break through.

I agree that Squad doesn't want to lose interest, but they also deeply care about the end product of the game. The creation of ASAS was precisely made to the point that it is to not make the game too easy, but manageable in your flights. If Squad simply bent the will of KSP to what the community wants, it probably wouldn't be the game it is today.

[AceGamer]

Just play the game as you enjoy it. But i do get your points about not having mods.

[sal_vager]

Every time your rocket spins out of control and loop de loops, it's Jedediah at the controls

[DChurchill]

I don't get why you take my words to heart, as I don't mean them out of hate. If mods that make the game easier are allowed into KSP's career mode, what is the point of even having one? It may as well be a sandbox if it is made easy by mods.

Honestly, I'm not taking anything to heart. Don't read emotions into what you read on the internet. I've seen so many threads go to hell because someone thought someone was upset. I'm not upset at all.

The simplest solution to this is this: you play the game how you want, I'll play it how I want. Stop saying "what's the point" when the point is whatever that player want's to make it for himself. Including me telling you what's fun. You don't get to tell other people how they should have fun, and neither do I. It's a simple as that. I don't know how to make it any more plain.

Squad doesn't have to add MechJeb or anything like it to their game. It's theirs, they can publish what they want. And again, this is my opinion, I would be extremely disappointed, and quite honestly surprised, if they somehow made it so mods were unusable in career mode. Which I doubt is even possible, but what do I know. IMHO, you can't in good faith embrace mods on one hand, and devote an entire slice of your website to hosting them, even hire former modders to your dev team, and deny them on the other. And I certainly would lose interest in KSP quickly if they did so. Part of the fun of this game, for me, is the mods. Designing is as well. Manually flying stuff is not so much. I find it highly unrealistic and tedious.

Edited July 12, 2013 by DChurchill

[Akinesis]

Oooooo - chance of failure!!! I love the idea of that! Is there a mod for it??

I know I have just gone completely off topic but I love that idea!!

[OtherDalfite]

Oooooo - chance of failure!!! I love the idea of that! Is there a mod for it??

I know I have just gone completely off topic but I love that idea!!

I don't know of any, but I too really like the idea as well.

[DChurchill]

I don't know of any, but I too really like the idea as well.

Oddly enough, so do I. But I'd like the ability to turn it off, too.

[Akinesis]

This will not happen with the current mind set of Squad. They are even having a debate whether or not your crew should be able to control the ship.

That would be a real shame if they didn't. I loved the idea of having crews that could fly better depending on their training/experience

[OtherDalfite]

That would be a real shame if they didn't. I loved the idea of having crews that could fly better depending on their training/experience

I imagine that is more-so what the Astronaut Complex is for. Each successful flight, a Kerbal gains more experience. Perhaps with the random chance maneuvers, he would be less likely to make mistakes as to burning on target and not burning retrograde. Anyways, back on topic:

I am fine with mods in Sandbox, just not career mode. Alright, all done here.

[fatfluffycat]

I imagine that is more-so what the Astronaut Complex is for. Each successful flight, a Kerbal gains more experience. Perhaps with the random chance maneuvers, he would be less likely to make mistakes as to burning on target and not burning retrograde. Anyways, back on topic:

I am fine with mods in Sandbox, just not career mode. Alright, all done here.

Just because you don't want mods shouldn't mean no one else should have them.

[Goldham]

I dont see why People want to have Career mode modless, why do you care if people play with mods?

[OtherDalfite]

Just because you don't want mods shouldn't mean no one else should have them.

That's why it's an opinion. It's up to Squad as to what to do. I'm simply giving my suggestion.

[regex]

Sandbox there's no goals.

Wait, sandbox mode has no goals? Why the hell would anyone play in sandbox mode?

[Goldham]

Also When I was practicing landing somehow no kerbals died

[Kimberly]

Wait, sandbox mode has no goals? Why the hell would anyone play in sandbox mode?

A sandbox has no inherent goals. Sand can be terrific fun to play with, but you have to decide whether you want to build a sandcastle or mud cakes or a quicksand pit...the sandbox doesn't care.