[1.0.5] TAC Life Support v0.11.2.1 [12Dec]

[Oafman]

Open up the saves persistent.sfs and search 'TAC'. After a few stacktricouplers and whatnot, you'll get to a heading under SCENARIO similar to the following:

SCENARIO
    {
        name = TacLifeSupport
        scene = 5, 7, 6, 9
        SavedGameSettings
        {
            IsNewSave = False
            [B]Enabled = False[/B]
            HibernateInsteadOfKill = False
            RespawnDelay = 9203545

I'm assuming changing the bolded to True enables TACLS on that save.

Thanks for the info. It seems I need to download some software to be able to open .sfs files, so I'm starting to think it might be easier to remove the mod and reinstall.

The one slight concern I have with doing so is that I've already put a couple of ships in orbit with TAC Life Support parts, waiting to be crewed and sent on missions. If I remove the mod and re-add it, will those ships survive?

[panarchist]

Thanks for the info. It seems I need to download some software to be able to open .sfs files, so I'm starting to think it might be easier to remove the mod and reinstall.

The one slight concern I have with doing so is that I've already put a couple of ships in orbit with TAC Life Support parts, waiting to be crewed and sent on missions. If I remove the mod and re-add it, will those ships survive?

Oafman - any text editor will work. Open the text editor, browse to the file location, and open the file. If your text editor only shows .txt files, have it display all files if that's an option.

If not, then if you are in Windows you can rename the file to persistent.sfs.txt or persistent.txt, edit the file, then rename back to persistent.sfs - voila!

Note: Always make a copy of the persistance file before editing.

[panarchist]

Taranis, it feels like some of the numbers here are.. off. First off, you've defined the density of food in the TacResources.cfg as 0.00025, but in your spreadsheet for calc'ing the numbers you still have it listed as the density of water (cell G33). This means each Kerbal is using 1/4 the food they should be using. Units per second should be 0.0000432703021 instead of 0.000010817575525. Likewise, waste production is 1/10 what it is supposed to be. The numbers for Water, O2 and CO2 all look fine.

This is more minor, and not game-breaking - but respectfully, I think you should use the NASA numbers for a human baseline rather than the Wikipedia ones. The Wikipedia article linked in your spreadsheet sources a text from 1994 - before ISS. I strongly suggest the numbers in NASA's Advanced Life Support doc, which is 10 years newer and more up-to-date. Page 39 of the PDF (Document page 27) contains most of the relevant values.

That would give values looking like this:

Human Kerbal

kg/day kg/day

Food 1.83 / 0.935

Water 2.70 / 1.379

Oxygen 0.84 / 0.429

CarbonDioxide 1.00 / 0.511

WasteWater 4.25 / 2.171

Waste 0.12 / 0.061

("Waste" here is crew waste only - with food packaging, etc, it's more like 1.2 kg/day)

"Food" contains 1.21 kg of water, which is why the NASA water numbers vary from those you picked. Again, this is minor - the numbers for the most part are within 10% of what you have, other than the difference in water - which matters only if one assumes Kerbals are eating dehydrated food.

Overall, this is an awesome update, and I'm looking forward to the full release.

[freedomispopular]

I'd like to configure this to use the 6 hour Kerbal day instead of the 24 hour day. What numbers do I need to use in order to do this? Or has someone made an MM config for it?

[TaranisElsu]

This may be a stupid question, but why aren't they large versions of the recyclers at least twice as effective instead of only 12.% more effective?

Twice as big does not always mean twice as good or effective or whatever. I really only supplied the bigger recycler parts so that they would fit on larger rockets. I think that 1 part for every 8-9 Kerbals is really easy. Making them work for more might make it too easy. I don't know though. Still working on the balance.

I recently downloaded this fantastic mod. It asked me if I wanted to initiate it in my current save, and I declined as I had a bunch of lads en route back from Jool, and it seemed unfair to suddenly introduce the concept of hunger into their lives. And indeed thirst and breathing.

The boys are now back home, and I'm ready to start sending resources out into space. So how do I now initiate it for my save? Since I initially declined I have not been asked again.

I guess I could uninstall and reinstall, but I wondered if there was a more straightforward option.

Open up the saves persistent.sfs and search 'TAC'. After a few stacktricouplers and whatnot, you'll get to a heading under SCENARIO similar to the following:

SCENARIO
	{
		name = TacLifeSupport
		scene = 5, 7, 6, 9
		SavedGameSettings
		{
			IsNewSave = False
			[B]Enabled = False[/B]
			HibernateInsteadOfKill = False
			RespawnDelay = 9203545

I'm assuming changing the bolded to True enables TACLS on that save.

You could just open up the settings window by clicking the icon in the Space Center scene. Then click "Enabled". No file editing required.

If you have the toolbar installed, make sure the icon is set as visible there. Otherwise if you are missing the icon.... something is wrong.... upload your log file somewhere please.

Taranis, it feels like some of the numbers here are.. off. First off, you've defined the density of food in the TacResources.cfg as 0.00025, but in your spreadsheet for calc'ing the numbers you still have it listed as the density of water (cell G33). This means each Kerbal is using 1/4 the food they should be using. Units per second should be 0.0000432703021 instead of 0.000010817575525. Likewise, waste production is 1/10 what it is supposed to be. The numbers for Water, O2 and CO2 all look fine.

This is more minor, and not game-breaking - but respectfully, I think you should use the NASA numbers for a human baseline rather than the Wikipedia ones. The Wikipedia article linked in your spreadsheet sources a text from 1994 - before ISS. I strongly suggest the numbers in NASA's Advanced Life Support doc, which is 10 years newer and more up-to-date. Page 39 of the PDF (Document page 27) contains most of the relevant values.

That would give values looking like this:

Human Kerbal

kg/day kg/day

Food 1.83 / 0.935

Water 2.70 / 1.379

Oxygen 0.84 / 0.429

CarbonDioxide 1.00 / 0.511

WasteWater 4.25 / 2.171

Waste 0.12 / 0.061

("Waste" here is crew waste only - with food packaging, etc, it's more like 1.2 kg/day)

"Food" contains 1.21 kg of water, which is why the NASA water numbers vary from those you picked. Again, this is minor - the numbers for the most part are within 10% of what you have, other than the difference in water - which matters only if one assumes Kerbals are eating dehydrated food.

Overall, this is an awesome update, and I'm looking forward to the full release.

Oops, I must have missed the density values when changing things around. And thank you for pointing me at another source. I will take a look at it.

I'd like to configure this to use the 6 hour Kerbal day instead of the 24 hour day. What numbers do I need to use in order to do this? Or has someone made an MM config for it?

I am working on the next release, v0.9, which changes everything so that the length of the day does not matter anymore, and the displayed values respect the length-of-day setting in the game. See http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-23-0-23-5-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-0-8-22Dec?p=1259202&viewfull=1#post1259202 for information about the second pre-release. A full release should come soon. Thank you to everyone who is helping me test it and giving me feedback .

[freedomispopular]

I am working on the next release, v0.9, which changes everything so that the length of the day does not matter anymore, and the displayed values respect the length-of-day setting in the game. See http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-23-0-23-5-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-0-8-22Dec?p=1259202&viewfull=1#post1259202 for information about the second pre-release. A full release should come soon. Thank you to everyone who is helping me test it and giving me feedback .

Ah, sweet, I should have gone back a page further! So this should have better compatibility with Universal Storage now, correct?

[pjf]

There may be a problem for anyone who wants to use this version while also using Realism Overhaul mod. The issue is that this is adding a modular tank to all of the pods and other parts with a crew capacity and many (if not all) of the pods at least have already had a modular RCS tank defined by RO. Currently, there is no way for one part to contain two tanks in this way, and as a result, one or the other of these tanks will be excluded from the final part.

I can confirm that I'm seeing this as well, or at least what I presume to be this. Starting with an Apollo command module, I have a 2710 litre tank with 2450 litres free space, and the rest containing N2OH, NMH, ElectricCharge, and Oxygen (2038 units of O2). The craft *also* contains a 27 litre tank with life support supplies, which includes the *same* 2038 units of oxygen, and -6.1 litres (yes, negative litres) of free space. At the very least, things seem confused.

Going to launch, the craft does appear to have all the resources loaded on it. I haven't launched it or tried further yet.

(Using TAC-LS 0.9 pre-release 2, and RealismOverhaul c315140e01326a5ee6d2da2bffe4acc067f7cd65 (latest dev))

[NathanKell]

Talked with TaranisElsu today. He's going to remove the tank-adding if RO is present. I'm also fixing RF so it doesn't create duplicate tanks.

EDIT: To be clear, TaranisElsu brought this up with me. Full credit to him!

Edited July 12, 2014 by NathanKell

[DasBananenbrot]

Totally unrelated but are you a moderator only for a short time or did I always miss it

[NathanKell]

Just got made one.

[Smurfalot]

Would it save you time to use TweakScale to replace the redundant parts of various sizes?

[BudgetHedgehog]

Would it save you time to ue TweakScale to replace the redundant parts of various sizes?

I posted a config aweek or so ago. Search thread for TweakScale and you'll find it.

[Smurfalot]

I posted a config aweek or so ago. Search thread for TweakScale and you'll find it.

Found it. Thank you very much. Does your TweakScale config work with the LS v0.9 he just posted?

I do not suppose you can do the same thing for Extraplanetary Launchpads too-- Assuming taniwha is ok with it that is?

[dlrk]

Just got made one.

Good to see it! I was thinking we need more mods who make mods

[BudgetHedgehog]

Found it. Thank you very much. Does your TweakScale config work with the LS v0.9 he just posted?

I do not suppose you can do the same thing for Extraplanetary Launchpads too-- Assuming taniwha is ok with it that is?

Assuming the part names are the same, it should work fine. I haven't tested though but I see no reason why it wouldn't.

As for EPL, I can certainly do one, but you should be able to do it too - just basically copy the Hexcan section of it and replace the part names with, say, HexCanMetal and it should all work fine.

Edited July 12, 2014 by ObsessedWithKSP

[Smurfalot]

Assuming the part names are the same, it should work fine. I haven't tested though but I see no reason why it wouldn't.

As for EPL, I can certainly do one, but you should be able to do it too - just basically copy the Hexcan section of it and replace the part names with, say, HexCanMetal and it should all work fine.

EPL has a "huge option" for the cans how does Tweakscale handle that?

[BudgetHedgehog]

EPL has a "huge option" for the cans how does Tweakscale handle that?

At the risk of going off-topic (sorry guys), the current settings for TweakScale 'surface' mode doesn't go that high (the description for the Huge cans says 6m, the largest TweakScaled TACLS can looks to be about 2.5m) - if you want the Huge ones, you'll need to keep its cfg. I don't know if 'free' mode will go any bigger, you're welcome to try it out.

[Smurfalot]

At the risk of going off-topic (sorry guys), the current settings for TweakScale 'surface' mode doesn't go that high (the description for the Huge cans says 6m, the largest TweakScaled TACLS can looks to be about 2.5m) - if you want the Huge ones, you'll need to keep its cfg. I don't know if 'free' mode will go any bigger, you're welcome to try it out.

Thanks, sorry for going so far off topic.

[munseeker]

So I've been working on making my greenhouse mods compatible to the resource changes in the new TACLS alpha (I know that there are still changes coming...), but I've been having a hard time matching the resource needs I see in the alpha with the Google Doc.

I decide to go and test the numbers - if I put Kerbals with TACLS canisters into orbit and measure the resource needs, this is what I see with the latest alpha release:

Usage for one Kerbal per day:

Food: 0.23

H2O: 0.46

O2: 76

Does this roughly sound right?

[BadLeo]

I'm sorry, but Modular Kolonization System thread says something about TAC Life Support pre-release version number 0.9, but the main post lists 0.8 as current. Is there something I missed?

Edit: Here's the MKS release thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79588

Never mind, I just looked around better and found it. I'm sorry.

Edited July 14, 2014 by BadLeo

[Smurfalot]

I'm sorry, but Modular Kolonization System thread says something about TAC Life Support pre-release version number 0.9, but the main post lists 0.8 as current. Is there something I missed?

Edit: Here's the MKS release thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79588

Never mind, I just looked around better and found it. I'm sorry.

It is here earlier in this thread, it just got buried a little: TAC-LS V0.9 Prerelease #2

[TaranisElsu]

I started working on a set of config files to work with TweakScale, but I am not happy with the results yet. I would appreciate some help from someone that knows more about that mod. The files can be found here: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/tree/TweakScale/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportTweakScale. Note that there are three files.

An additional concern is that it does not seem to be playing well with ModularFuelTanks (v5.0.3) right now. I am seeing exceptions loading TweakScale_ModularFuelTanks. I have not had time to dig into it, sorry. Thanks for any help

So I've been working on making my greenhouse mods compatible to the resource changes in the new TACLS alpha (I know that there are still changes coming...), but I've been having a hard time matching the resource needs I see in the alpha with the Google Doc.

I decide to go and test the numbers - if I put Kerbals with TACLS canisters into orbit and measure the resource needs, this is what I see with the latest alpha release:

Usage for one Kerbal per day:

Food: 0.23

H2O: 0.46

O2: 76

Does this roughly sound right?

Sorry, my spreadsheet is in a bit of a mess right now because I am doing further changes after a conversation with NathanKell and others. Your numbers sound like you are in the right ballpark. If you want the exact values per Kerbin day, multiply the numbers in {KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupport/PluginData/TacLifeSupport/LifeSupport.cfg by 21,600 (the number of seconds in 6 hours). That file is created the first time you run KSP after installing the mod.

I'm sorry, but Modular Kolonization System thread says something about TAC Life Support pre-release version number 0.9, but the main post lists 0.8 as current. Is there something I missed?

Edit: Here's the MKS release thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79588

I have uploaded two pre-releases of a version 0.9, but it is still in testing and there are more changes that I want to do before doing a full release. More information here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-0-23-0-23-5-WIP-TAC-Life-Support-0-8-22Dec?p=1259202&viewfull=1#post1259202.

[munseeker]

Sorry, my spreadsheet is in a bit of a mess right now because I am doing further changes after a conversation with NathanKell and others. Your numbers sound like you are in the right ballpark. If you want the exact values per Kerbin day, multiply the numbers in {KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupport/PluginData/TacLifeSupport/LifeSupport.cfg by 21,600 (the number of seconds in 6 hours). That file is created the first time you run KSP after installing the mod.

Thanks! That is perfect. For now I'm just eyeballing the values for my greenhouses to get a feel for the new resource system in TAC LS - and I'll be ready with an update very soon after the release of 0.9. :-)

[munseeker]

One note from testing: Is it possible that the containers have too much stuff in them? Three Kerbals with two standard-sized life support containers that are pretty easy to bring plus the command capsule can survive 184 days - it feels like those containers are not big enough for such a long duration.

[Smurfalot]

I started working on a set of config files to work with TweakScale, but I am not happy with the results yet. I would appreciate some help from someone that knows more about that mod. The files can be found here: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/tree/TweakScale/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportTweakScale. Note that there are three files.

An additional concern is that it does not seem to be playing well with ModularFuelTanks (v5.0.3) right now. I am seeing exceptions loading TweakScale_ModularFuelTanks. I have not had time to dig into it, sorry. Thanks for any help

Here is the TweakScale Cfg I have been working on tonight based on the one Obsessed did earlier, I added some missing tanks (including the MFT tanks). I also added a "Huge" option because I was basing it off a similar Cfg for the EL mod. That can be removed, or "huge" added to the others as you see fit.

The hexcans all scale nearly perfectly, but your other containers have slightly more than the original parts, this is likely due to rounding differences.

I hope this helps.

Edit: I noticed you have small and large of the various conversion/recycling modules, except for the Air filter and the water splitter, is that by design?

Edited July 14, 2014 by Smurfalot