[WIP] Space Launch System (SLS) and ORION (MPCV)

[ouion]

How much thrust are the engines and the Solid Rocket Boosters ?

[Guest]

just about every reference I found has them pointing the way I have them, I think I had a similar discussion earlier. I assume they are meant to be discharged while the SRBs are still going, so it works in that instance. I want to keep them that way, I just have to find a balance between the nosecone boosters and the skirt boosters. But you can easily flip the skirt ones if need be.

Check out the Space Shuttle, those boosters are the same as on it. Somehow, I don't think those sep motors would be pointed like that. Yes, the SRB is still firing at the sep, but this thrust is really tiny. They don't separate them when burning at full thrust.

[spawnofbill]

just about every reference I found has them pointing the way I have them, I think I had a similar discussion earlier. I assume they are meant to be discharged while the SRBs are still going, so it works in that instance. I want to keep them that way, I just have to find a balance between the nosecone boosters and the skirt boosters. But you can easily flip the skirt ones if need be.

That may be how the real ones work, but what Dragon01 is talking about is separation motors that literally point perpendicular to the central tank. KSP pretty much requires this due to how in-game physics works.

[Stevincent]

The rocket with SRB's looks good but the SRB's should be closer to the inner fuel tank to make it look more streamlined and less wobble would occur?

I based the distance of the SRBs on the reference, I've been trying to cancel out the wobble without using struts I have a few more things I want to try before I make any changes.

How much thrust are the engines and the Solid Rocket Boosters ?

Right now, the values are just place holders so Im not quite sure.

Check out the Space Shuttle, those boosters are the same as on it. Somehow, I don't think those sep motors would be pointed like that. Yes, the SRB is still firing at the sep, but this thrust is really tiny. They don't separate them when burning at full thrust.

Pointed the same way I have them.

That may be how the real ones work, but what Dragon01 is talking about is separation motors that literally point perpendicular to the central tank. KSP pretty much requires this due to how in-game physics works.

Yeah I may just have to have it as a visual thing. But Im still going to toy around with it.

[Guest]

If you look closely, they're not perpendicular to the tank (like on your model), but diagonally mounted, both pointing towards the Shuttle. The boosters need to clear the wings, remember, and the Shuttle is "upside-down" at the sep. On SLS, they'd probably be pointing towards the tank. Not to mention they're both at the same side, your vid had them symmetrical. I wanted to do a proper setup for the CSS, but I didn't have good separation motors and had to just fling them clear instead.

[CAPFlyer]

There are several issues -

1) The SRB's are producing no useable thrust at separation in the real world. KSP does not simulate SRB burnout properly. As such, you must allow the SRB to burn out and give a half second prior to activating separation to allow the thrust to fully decay and acceleration to normalize. If you trigger the SRB's while they are still burning, you are separating them while they are producing 100% thrust, thus why they act like they do.

2) The separation motors on the skirt are only designed to relieve the aerodynamic forces on the connection as the separation occurs. The primary thrust for separation are the upper separation motors. In KSP, with aerodynamics not working 100% accurately on them, you can almost just have an effect for the skirt motors and no thrust at all.

The positioning of the skirt motors give a short (less than 1 second) burst of momentum away from the wings of the STS. If you watch the SRB videos on Youtube, you'll see that the motors don't even give enough thrust to keep up with the launch vehicle for a fraction of a second. The upper motors burm for only slightly longer than the skirt to give a bigger impulse and ensure that the SRB's are pushed away from the stack by aerodynamic forces.

[little square dot]

Beautiful models.

[Stevincent]

There are several issues -

1) The SRB's are producing no useable thrust at separation in the real world. KSP does not simulate SRB burnout properly. As such, you must allow the SRB to burn out and give a half second prior to activating separation to allow the thrust to fully decay and acceleration to normalize. If you trigger the SRB's while they are still burning, you are separating them while they are producing 100% thrust, thus why they act like they do.

2) The separation motors on the skirt are only designed to relieve the aerodynamic forces on the connection as the separation occurs. The primary thrust for separation are the upper separation motors. In KSP, with aerodynamics not working 100% accurately on them, you can almost just have an effect for the skirt motors and no thrust at all.

The positioning of the skirt motors give a short (less than 1 second) burst of momentum away from the wings of the STS. If you watch the SRB videos on Youtube, you'll see that the motors don't even give enough thrust to keep up with the launch vehicle for a fraction of a second. The upper motors burm for only slightly longer than the skirt to give a bigger impulse and ensure that the SRB's are pushed away from the stack by aerodynamic forces.

Option 2 might be what Ill wind up going with. Thanks!

[EKS21]

anyone else notice how much the SLS Heavy Launch Vehicle looks like the Saturn V? But great job on the parts! I'll be really happy when you release them!

[Nibb31]

anyone else notice how much the SLS Heavy Launch Vehicle looks like the Saturn V?

The black and white color scheme for the PR renderings is intentionally reminiscent of the Saturn V to be "inspirational" and to separate it visually from Ares V.

In reality, the main tank will probably use the same orange foam insulation as the Shuttle/Ares V main tank, because it uses the same propellant and is based on the same tanking technology.

[Stevincent]

The black and white color scheme for the PR renderings is intentionally reminiscent of the Saturn V to be "inspirational" and to separate it visually from Ares V.

In reality, the main tank will probably use the same orange foam insulation as the Shuttle/Ares V main tank, because it uses the same propellant and is based on the same tanking technology.

Well I believe it is going to be shipping out with the orange foam insulation. But I prefer the artist renditions it does look a hell of a lot sexier than the Ares platform. But if people really want the orange foam core stage that wouldnt take too much time to do.

[Virtualgenius]

I prefer the black & white but I am old and a child of apollo

[Stevincent]

I prefer the black & white but I am old and a child of apollo

I agree I prefer the black and white.

[Fox62]

Yeah, Bobcat's already done an Ares V, I think the orange looks bland.

[Razorcane]

Check out the Space Shuttle, those boosters are the same as on it. Somehow, I don't think those sep motors would be pointed like that. Yes, the SRB is still firing at the sep, but this thrust is really tiny. They don't separate them when burning at full thrust.

Actually, the SLS's SRBs are a little taller than the big orange tank. So they aren't the same.

[Guest]

No, the Block 0 SRBs are actually SSRBs taken straight out of the Shuttle program.

[Reddragon]

I just discovered this thread and it's amazing to have a WIP SLS mod. The concepts and models look really good. Congratulations on the process you made in so little time!

[spawnofbill]

No, the Block 0 SRBs are actually SSRBs taken straight out of the Shuttle program.

I'm pretty sure even Block 0 will be using non-recoverable five segment boosters as opposed to the Shuttle's recoverable 4 segment boosters.

[Guest]

Block 0 will use actual Shuttle hardware, meaning 4-segment SRBs and only slightly modified ETs. That's the point of the SLS Block 0, to use the existing hardware leftover from the Shuttle.

[Tiberion]

No, Block 0 and 1 will use the ATK boosters designed for the shuttle, but its not left over hardware (they made each booster set on time and delivered them for the mission)

They will in fact be able to do 4 or 5 segment boosters depending on the mission requirements.

Then for blocks beyond one they are holding bids for new booster designs, so they may move away from ATK boosters

[Mr. Pseudonym]

No, Block 0 and 1 will use the ATK boosters designed for the shuttle, but its not left over hardware (they made each booster set on time and delivered them for the mission)

They will in fact be able to do 4 or 5 segment boosters depending on the mission requirements.

Then for blocks beyond one they are holding bids for new booster designs, so they may move away from ATK boosters

Yes, they will have different booster configs for each of the blocks depending on mission requirements. But right now, I think he's working on various pieces of all of the things except Block 0, which he said that he would be working on it after the initial release.

Now, please stop arguing over boosters, because I think we have settled it.

But, on a booster related note, how are those sep motors doing?

Edited August 24, 2013 by Mr. Pseudonym

[Climberfx]

Great stuff, amazing modeling!

[Stevincent]

Yes, they will have different booster configs for each of the blocks depending on mission requirements. But right now, I think he's working on various pieces of all of the things except Block 0, which he said that he would be working on it after the initial release.

Now, please stop arguing over boosters, because I think we have settled it.

But, on a booster related note, how are those sep motors doing?

Actually havent had much time to work on it, final projects have begun so I've been working on school work. I'm still working on the models but its geared more towards my needs for school. I'm currently UVing and preparing the texture the RL-10 and the Cryo-Stage, I also have to remodel the ORION pod because Im not satisfied with it. So I'm not sure when I'm going to be able to start converting the assets over for KSP, it may not be fore several more weeks when the term is over.

But I am looking for someone who wouldn't mind taking over the Unity aspect and config file aspect of the project since I'm not sure when ill be able to dedicate enough time to really learn unity and making the config files working properly. I feel if I continued to make the config files and work in unity the mod wouldn't be up to par with what would satisfy me. So if anyone who has solid knowledge of config file construction and unity who would is interested in partnering up with me please inbox me.

[MainSailor]

So if anyone who has solid knowledge of config file construction and unity who would is interested in partnering up with me please inbox me.

I'm not 100% on .cfgs, mostly I'm learning as I go. I don't have a lot of experience in Unity however.

The biggest hurdle for me is that I either have huge open blocks of time one day and none the next, so I couldn't do constant development.

[Reddragon]

Excuse me if anybody asked this earlier but I was thinking of are you going to do both of the 4 engine and the 5 engine 1st stages or only one of them?