The new (and improved??????) SAS system.

[Danger Will Kerbinson!]

If your SAS will not hold its heading.

A. Add a command pod or add what use to be known as the small ASAS.

B. Set your deadzone.

Response to A.....

B. There is a deadzone setting for the keyboard?

[Conzolax]

To me it seems that they ripped out the old ASAS, and put an Avionics package in the command modules instead.

I can imagine making a rocket in 0.20.2 with an AP instead of an ASAS would feel the same as the ASAS in 0.21.0.

Atleast for me it does.

Heck, tried my VTOL and it tipped right over with the SAS enabled, i can only take off if i do it manually.

This could just as well being 0.21.0 breaking it, but as other people reports, even on a normal small rocket in orbit, i have to sit and manuelly adjust my course all the time, because the SAS isnt holding anything.

And to the people saying "its not supposed to fly the rocket for you", no thats true. But its supposed to do everything to hold the damn course with all of the control surfaces/gimballing/Pod torque that it has available. Thats the whole point of an ASAS.

Right now it just dont care.

I do have a feeling that its a bug effecting some of us though, since so many people are reporting different issues.

As an example, in C7's preview of the new ASAS, if he turned his plane by holding Q, the plane would just roll left.

If i do that on any plane, (except the Ravenspear, weirdly enough) it will just drop like it turned the ASAS off totally.

Anyway, just my personal rant.

~Conzo

Edited July 25, 2013 by Conzolax

[Danger Will Kerbinson!]

B. There is a deadzone setting for the keyboard?

Ill be damned, there is. But you know what...that ain't it. When I'm not pressing any buttons my keyboard is totally in the dead zone, yet it wanders. I can observe my deadzone is actually dead by taking a kerbal for a spacewalk, if there was any way my keys were somehow being half pressed the poor guy would be showing all sorts of jetting from his pack but there he floats, no jets.

Wandering during active control is one thing, wandering with no input in a vacuum is a different thing.

[Guardian_Gryphon]

When I'm not pressing any buttons my keyboard is totally in the dead zone, yet it wanders. I can observe my deadzone is actually dead by taking a kerbal for a spacewalk, if there was any way my keys were somehow being half pressed the poor guy would be showing all sorts of jetting from his pack but there he floats, no jets.

Do you have a joystick, gamepad, or any sort of other control peripheral besides the mouse/keyboard plugged in? Even if you're not using it?

If so; it can be sending input spikes, and an EVA would not reveal this since peripherals are usually not tied to EVA controls.

Are you on a Steam install?

Have you done a complete clean-out and re-install?

Are you running on a clean/new profile?

[Temeter]

Why put words into my mouth?? I was just saying that based on this poll that this issue seems to affect a minority of players, this does not mean it should not be fixed. And I do not agree with the wording of the poll either, but this is the only poll we got right now.

And I think it is you who are behaving stupid now attacking me for just stating that it seems like it works for majority.

And BTW I had a nearly 30 minute flight earlier today which was nearly around the planet and the plane kept the heading all the way.

And what does this have to do with opinions??? I guess we who have it working fine should not be able to even respond?

The fact is that for me it works at least as good as the old ASAS judging by how it has worked so far.

I never EVER called anyone a crybaby. And I would be on this forum and bitch about this issue myself if I had experienced it.

Yeah, but then you use this poll to argue the problem only affects a minority of players. If a too simplified poll shows a outcome of 30% of players having already experienced problems with a very recent update, calling it a minority is understating the whole problem. Frankly, it just sounds like you are downplaying the problems i and many other people have. This whole thread is pretty much about this.

I mean, why would someone even make a thread in a sub-forum filled with people having problems, just to procclaim, that it's working pretty fine for him. Of course shortly followed by a post claiming we all just don't understand how the system works.

The second part of my comment was misleading, since it was less directed at you, but e.g. at the guy calling others lazy and being cheaters directly above you. Sorry about that.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Temeter

[Danger Will Kerbinson!]

Do you have a joystick, gamepad, or any sort of other control peripheral besides the mouse/keyboard plugged in? Even if you're not using it?

If so; it can be sending input spikes, and an EVA would not reveal this since peripherals are usually not tied to EVA controls.

Are you on a Steam install?

Have you done a complete clean-out and re-install?

Are you running on a clean/new profile?

I have a mouse....want me to unplug it? Might make doing everything else in the game challenging.

Clean install, yes its on steam, no mods, I approached this in a very careful way because I saw the forum screaming before I bothered to update and play. Steam seems to be common among the people with problems. Any steam people who are totally fine?

[boxman]

@Temeter

The reason I responded was that many of the comments here make it seem like it is broken for pretty much everyone. The minority was just a poor choice of word which probably has something to do with me having english as second language. Either way what I meant is that it seems to work for more people than it does not. I never meant to downplay any problems..

It definitely seems like a bug of some kind that is affecting only some systems/installs for some reason.

[Temeter]

@Temeter

The reason I responded was that many of the comments here make it seem like it is broken for pretty much everyone. The minority was just a poor choice of word which probably has something to do with me having english as second language. Either way what I meant is that it seems to work for more people than it does not. I never meant to downplay any problems..

It definitely seems like a bug of some kind that is affecting only some systems/installs for some reason.

Actually, english is also my second language, seems we were both a bit unclear.

But you'e not wrong: The Update is indeed great and whe're focusing quite a bit on bugs, but sorting out the problems is important.

I think the behaviour of the sas is also a matter of perception. Some people here think it's a change for the worse, some assume it to be a bug, for other's it's a feature. It's a weird thing.

[mordin86]

I really like the new SAS system, it makes my planes flyable and landable lol (I`m using a joystick), and I dont have much problem with flying rockets so far too.

[magnemoe]

Just done one launch with the new system, however it look like it works nice, yes I used novapunch and one of their large reaction wheels but one 5 meter module on an 1000 ton rocket is not bad, however I have used torque mod parts since 0.18 and find them pretty much required.

[Comrade Jenkens]

It has its pros and cons. I really like the reduced wobble and it makes aircraft very easy to fly.

However its not a heading lock and this can present a problem with long burn times. Also it doesn't lock the other axis while you control one of them.

Its a start but it needs tweaking. Its got much more potential than the previous system.

[cypher_00]

On the last rocket i build the ASAS was perfectly able to keep my heading during launch. After the gravity turn i turn ASAS on and it keeps it right where i want only drifting a little bit up after some time but it has always done that.

I did notice you also have make use of the other control options. Lower stage i used the little wings and after i do my gravity turn i keep RCS on all the time.

I like this alot because before the patch the RSC system wasnt used as much to keep heading straight. I only used it to turn around my craft before.

[Pingonaut]

Cycling the SAS after a turn seems to help, to keep it from thinking you want it to be moving in a direction.

[Kimberly]

Cycling the SAS after a turn seems to help, to keep it from thinking you want it to be moving in a direction.

But that doesn't that make it exactly like the old ASAS? Except less effective.

[Ben88]

Works great for airplanes with wings.

Not so much for long burns in outerspace.

It's different. I don't use mechjeb so I can adapt easily but it is frustrating on long burns on a single heading.

[Piggius_Max]

Not kidding, it actually sucks. I'd rather have a wobbly rocket than one that can't even fly straight with SAS.

For manned rockets, though, it kinda works.

Add more reaction wheels. You can't expect ASAS with one reaction wheel to pull a several tonne rocket going at several hundred meters per second back onto trajectory.

[rytheguy]

Add more reaction wheels. You can't expect ASAS with one reaction wheel to pull a several tonne rocket going at several hundred meters per second back onto trajectory.

Logged in to my lurker account because I'm having huge issues with the new ASAS. That doesn't make any sense, if you have enough torque to start turning a vessel, you have enough to stop it.

[marach]

I have a question how many of the people complaining about the new SAS are asparagus pancake builders and how many of them are conventional style builders? My asparagus builds are awful with this SAS they need IRS on nearly every fuel pod to be effective. My old school conventional rockets work perfectly without even an added reaction wheel

[Ben88]

Add more reaction wheels. You can't expect ASAS with one reaction wheel to pull a several tonne rocket going at several hundred meters per second back onto trajectory.

No but I expect it to use more than 1% of the reaction wheels to steer the rocket and use the gimbals to vector the thrust.

It's just not keeping the heading the same as it used too, if its not intended to work this way thats OK but it would be nice to have a clarification on the situation.

[oberlerchner123]

I'm curious does the loction of the reaction wheel matter?

As for small rockets it seams like would almost need 1/4 of your mass in reaction wheels to make the SAS hold it stable.

But once you turn it off you could probably do an instant 360 with all the torque.

It's like the SAS only uses a very tiny force no matter how far it has drifted off it's locked heading.

[marach]

I'm curious does the loction of the reaction wheel matter?

As for small rockets it seams like would almost need 1/4 of your mass in reaction wheels to make the SAS hold it stable.

But once you turn it off you could probably do an instant 360 with all the torque.

It's like the SAS only uses a very tiny force no matter how far it has drifted off it's locked heading.

Yes it will matter in much the same way as RCS placement matters and for much the same reason

[JonhyBee]

Hello There,

I am on steam, and I did a clean install. I did notice some "sponginess" in my designs, but I interpreted that has the new ASAS working differently. I did a few rocket lunches quite succesfully, but did notice you have to be present and babysit the ASAS a little bit. For a spaceplace it works 1000% better then the old, its great for flying around and landing. I even got my spaceplace in orbit, one rotation of kerbal, de-orbit and land at KSC. I was amazed to see the ASAS recuperate from a very heavy spin cauzed by back-end first re-entry.

Personnaly I like it, it feels a lot more like flying a plane and adjusting trim to set your heading right while lot leaving it to drive for you and take a nap. But I can see why some peoples are unhappy with it. It seems to want to drift off course sometimes if you dont give it a tap in the right direction.

[Geschosskopf]

I like it. I find it works for all vehicle types: rockets, planes, SSTOs, and rovers. It does require some changes in how you fly/drive compared to the previous version, and therefore has a small learning curve, but in general I think it's a big improvement. Could it be tweaked to be better? Certainly. But it's hardly the non-starter some make it out to be.

I think a lot of folks are forgetting that using SAS now burns electricity. This means manned craft, not just probes, now need RTGs or solar panels; otherwise SAS stops working very soon after launch. So don't forget to add these to your pre-0.21 craft files if you want to keep using them.

[zarakon]

I really like that I can change heading without toggling it off/on, but I do have a few issues.

1.

Like others here have said, it just doesn't try hard enough to maintain heading. Even when I have plenty of control authority, it just doesn't use enough of it.

2.

It doesn't work as well as it should with analog controls.

For example, let's say I have a plane that tends to pitch upward, and it requires 20% pitch-down control to stay level.

If I leave the controls alone, it stays level. If I input a 5% upward pitch, instead of pitching up gently at 5% it jumps straight to 25%, because the 20% pitch-down correction just goes away completely.

It would be more ideal if it summed together the analog input and the control required to maintain course. So if I input 5% up, it should change from 20% down to 15% down.

This would also solve the issue where I try to input 5% down, and the plane actually ends up pitching upward because the control changes from 20% down to just 5% down. If they were summed, my 5% down input would result in a 25% total pitch down control, and a 5% actual pitch down.

3.

The selection of parts is lacking. We have a medium reaction wheel, a medium SAS+reaction wheel, and a large SAS-only. Why isn't there a medium SAS-only part, or large reaction wheel parts, or anything probe-sized?

A large reaction wheel would be the most-needed, since it's generally large craft that need extra torque

Edited July 25, 2013 by zarakon

[the-d-o-c]

fresh install, no mods, only built rockets, not messed with space planes, anything i have tried so far has cartwheeled out of control

been on KSP since .18, landed on most planets & had a few SS in orbit but this build seems unflyable to me