[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Moleculor]

this is a problem caused by an external mod...

...that is included in the download, required for KSPi to function 'out of the box', and is currently broken.

Whether or not it's a mod that can be fixed by the KSPi author is beside the point; If KSPi depends on it working, and it's not working, then KSPi needs to be changed to not depend on it. A fix the author of KSPi can use is listed 14 pages back.

If I write a mod that only functions on 128 bit processors, and what processors you have are "out of my control", but everyone knows that 128 bit processors flat out don't exist, I haven't written a working mod.

[Shalashalska]

Yes, my mistake, I was thinking at least partially of the N-1 (or Energyia, perhaps). But my main point was that LH2/LOX were NOT used on the LEM/CEM- so you guys have missed the main point of my post- the gold foil tanks on the LEM were used solely to hold hypergolics, *NEVER* LH2.

Regards,

Northstar

My point was that the majority of the DV was provided by LH2/LOX. Those two stages took the CSM all the way from 70 km at 2.3 km/s (on Earth, where the orbital velocity is ~7.5 km/s, and the total DV of the Saturn V was around 15 km/s) to a lunar intercept.

...that is included in the download, required for KSPi to function 'out of the box', and is currently broken.

Whether or not it's a mod that can be fixed by the KSPi author is beside the point; If KSPi depends on it working, and it's not working, then KSPi needs to be changed to not depend on it. A fix the author of KSPi can use is listed 14 pages back.

If I write a mod that only functions on 128 bit processors, and what processors you have are "out of my control", but everyone knows that 128 bit processors flat out don't exist, I haven't written a working mod.

It works out of the box. However, you can't unlock some of the upgraded parts in career mode. You can unlock all of them though.

And either way, Fractal is modifying ATC to allow creation of new tech nodes.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Shalashalska

[Jovus]

Fractal is modifying ATC to allow creation of new tech nodes.

I must have missed this. Music to my ears.

[TheGatesofLogic]

The problem is that you are stating that the functionality KSPI adds to the game is not compatible with KSP .25, but this is false. All of the functionality KSPI adds to the game is compatible with .25. KSPI also adds an optional functionality that is semi-compatible with KSP .25, but it is not the fault of KSPI that this is so. The only way to add this type of functionality is to add it via TreeLoader, there simply is no other way to add nodes to KSP. It is therefore not an issue with KSPI but an issue with TreeLoader. If, for instance, TreeLoader DID work with KSP .25, then any resultant issues would be at the fault of KSPI, but this is not the case, and if TreeLoader were updated I doubt there would be any issues anyway. Many mods have relied on TreeLoader for quite some time, including the NearFuture Packs by Nertea. Many modders are very upset about this loss of functionality, and they are trying very hard to restore it.

The real issue as a whole is that TreeLoader is necessary at all. It would take Squad all of an unpaid intern's 30 minutes to add 30+ unnamed nodes with no icons and compile it for a hotfix release. This would help modders immensely.

KSPI may recommend that you deal with the minor bugs in exchange for optimal gameplay by using TreeLoader, but in no way requires it.

[Atragon]

The real issue as a whole is that TreeLoader is necessary at all. It would take Squad all of an unpaid intern's 30 minutes to add 30+ unnamed nodes with no icons and compile it for a hotfix release. This would help modders immensely.

KSPI may recommend that you deal with the minor bugs in exchange for optimal gameplay by using TreeLoader, but in no way requires it.

A better solution would be to enable mods to add their own nodes via API calls, adding a bunch of blank nodes is just begging for conflicting mods to happen.

[Sokar408]

The problem is that you are stating that the functionality KSPI adds to the game is not compatible with KSP .25, but this is false. All of the functionality KSPI adds to the game is compatible with .25. KSPI also adds an optional functionality that is semi-compatible with KSP .25, but it is not the fault of KSPI that this is so. The only way to add this type of functionality is to add it via TreeLoader, there simply is no other way to add nodes to KSP. It is therefore not an issue with KSPI but an issue with TreeLoader. If, for instance, TreeLoader DID work with KSP .25, then any resultant issues would be at the fault of KSPI, but this is not the case, and if TreeLoader were updated I doubt there would be any issues anyway. Many mods have relied on TreeLoader for quite some time, including the NearFuture Packs by Nertea. Many modders are very upset about this loss of functionality, and they are trying very hard to restore it.

The real issue as a whole is that TreeLoader is necessary at all. It would take Squad all of an unpaid intern's 30 minutes to add 30+ unnamed nodes with no icons and compile it for a hotfix release. This would help modders immensely.

KSPI may recommend that you deal with the minor bugs in exchange for optimal gameplay by using TreeLoader, but in no way requires it.

I have been thinking about this too for a long time. How come KSP hasn't added direct support to the techtree? It seems at some level ridiculous that, a mod is needed just to get that functionality, especially when its almost certain that mods will appear that will need this functionality.

Regardless we all know that Squad won't do this anytime soon, or at least hoping for it isn't really the way to go. On that note, what happened to Treeloader? We have tons of talented modders, probably some of the best in the gaming community. I personally do not have the expertise to maintain it, and maybe its a failure of imagination on my part, but it can't possibly be that hard to maintain, can it?

[Jovus]

What probably happened with Treeloader is that whatever API it was calling into to make the changes got modified/removed in 0.25 with the changes to the tech tree. Unfortunately, since KSP's API documentation is so scarce as to be nonexistent, fixing Treeloader or coding up something with similar functionality is probably less a matter of code modification and more a matter of forensics.

[Atrius129]

...that is included in the download, required for KSPi to function 'out of the box', and is currently broken.

Whether or not it's a mod that can be fixed by the KSPi author is beside the point; If KSPi depends on it working, and it's not working, then KSPi needs to be changed to not depend on it. A fix the author of KSPi can use is listed 14 pages back.

If I write a mod that only functions on 128 bit processors, and what processors you have are "out of my control", but everyone knows that 128 bit processors flat out don't exist, I haven't written a working mod.

You might not realize that the author for this mod had been gone for quite a while. It's a one-person-show. Fractal_UK stated that they were very busy lately and hasn't had as much time recently to devote to KSPi. He/she mentioned that they were going to be gone for another time period, but managed to force an update that got KSPi working with 0.25 before doing so. Magnetic nozzles also weren't working out of the box until a fix was found.

[Moleculor]

It works out of the box. However, you can't unlock some of the upgraded parts in career mode.

These two statements are contradictory. When the tech tree doesn't work, that means it doesn't work. When the mod breaks stock functionality, the mod is not compatible with 0.25. (Or 0.24, apparently.)

However, you can't unlock some of the upgraded parts in career mode. You can unlock all of them though.

Contradictory statements. So which is it? Can you unlock everything in career mode, or can't you?

The problem is that you are stating that the functionality KSPI adds to the game is not compatible with KSP .25, but this is false.

Okay, then tell me how I'm installing the mod incorrectly so that it partially disables the tech tree and apparently doesn't allow you to unlock all the parts in career mode.

All of the functionality KSPI adds to the game is compatible with .25.

Except for unlocking parts, apparently, which you'd need to play with the mod. And it breaks stock functionality, so when you can say "the MOD works, but it breaks the game", that's not compatible with 0.25.

As an example, again, TAC Fuel Balancer's "functionality" worked, but some parts were the wrong size and a control panel wasn't available. The mod author didn't claim compatibility with 0.25 until those things were fixed. That's all I'm asking for here, too.

KSPI also adds an optional functionality that is semi-compatible with KSP .25, but it is not the fault of KSPI that this is so.

TreeLoader is part of KSPi. Whether it's written by Fractal or not, it's part of the mod. It's something that can be fixed within KSPi by deleting the broken mod and doing... something? with a config file. That can be done inside the download so that KSPi is compatible with 0.25.

[etmoonshade]

This is half feature request, half suggestion:

Create an engine that utilizes antimatter directly, without the "middleman" of having an A/M reactor. I've got tanks stuffed quite full of antimatter, but I don't want to put a multi-thousand credit A/M reactor on my SSTO probe launcher that isn't recoverable.

I guess the concept would be a direct annihilation reaction - x units of antimatter + x units of liquid fuel = y units of thrust. I'm not going to be picky - just a suggestion to give a reason to farm the antimatter for more than just sustainable trips.

[Shalashalska]

This is half feature request, half suggestion:

Create an engine that utilizes antimatter directly, without the "middleman" of having an A/M reactor. I've got tanks stuffed quite full of antimatter, but I don't want to put a multi-thousand credit A/M reactor on my SSTO probe launcher that isn't recoverable.

I guess the concept would be a direct annihilation reaction - x units of antimatter + x units of liquid fuel = y units of thrust. I'm not going to be picky - just a suggestion to give a reason to farm the antimatter for more than just sustainable trips.

So basically, you want an AM version of the DT vista?

[Northstar1989]

@FractalUK

I've been buzzing around this topic for a while, over in my Request thread for a RealFuels/KSP-Interstellar integration config, but haven't actually mentioned it over here yet...

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/95671-RealFuels-KSP-Interstellar-Integration-Config

Anyways, it seems that the Meth/LOX chemical engine in KSP-Interstellar (the Deinonychus 1-D) has significantly lower Specific Impulse than the real-life Raptor Meth/LOX engine design concept that I assume it is modeled after... (what else could "Elon Kerman's Space Exploration Corp" refer to if not real-life "Elon Musk's Space Exploration Corp." aka, "Space-X"?)

The Space-X Raptor engine would have a sea level ISP of 321s, and a vacuum ISP of 380s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raptor_%28rocket_engine%29

(I know this link is to Wikipedia- but I also found a number of other sources confirming this is accurate information- just Wikipedia has it in an easier-to-digest format...)

This may seem rather high to you, compared to the stock engines, until you consider that most stock engines appear to be modeled after Kerosene/LOX performance specs, whereas Meth/LOX falls a *little* more towards the high-ISP low fuel-density end of the spectrum (LH2/LOX is capable of MUCH better ISP- with some engines measuring over 460s, but has a *much* lower still fuel density).

Since KSP-Interstellar already has a lower fuel-density for Methane/Oxidizer than the standard LFO fuel tanks (that is, less fuel mass is held per cubic meter), it would only make sense to realistically balance the engine by increasing its ISP to real-life levels. Right now, its performance lags too far behind its LFO cousins (due to lower fuel-density) and the real-life Raptor designs (which would have better ISP, if they ever get built...)

In fact, KSP-Interstellar's Meth/LOX engine lags far behind the Space-X "Raptor" in almost every possible design criteria. Here are just *SOME* of the specifications for comparison:

Interstellar's "Deinonychus 1-D"

Thrust 1425 kN (thrust does not vary with atmospheric pressure in stock engine module)

Mass 3500 kg (for the record- what TWR is that?)

ASL ISP 309 s

VAC ISP 368 s

Space-X's "Raptor"

ASL Thrust 6900 kN

VAC Thrust 8200 kN

Mass Unknown- but TWR predicted likely to exceed 120 (yes, I know this is a *very* high TWR- and might be over-optimistic)

ASL ISP 321 s

VAC ISP 380 s (this prediction by Space-X *IS* possible: the theoretical maximum for Meth/LOX is a bit over 400s)

Keep in mind that the "Deinonychus 1-D" is not available until "Experimental Rocketry" - the *very last* tech node in the rocketry series of the tech-tree! So, it would be perfectly reasonable to expect it to significantly out-perform Kero/LOX engines (assuming LFO engines represent Kero/LOX) in many ways, considering its higher tech level (and as a Meth/LOX engine, it is in fact a bit further towards the "high ISP" end of the real-life fuel-density vs. ISP spectrum than Kero/LOX engines...)

Regards,

Northstar

Edited October 18, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Insanitic]

Hi guys, this is my first time using Interstellar.

I have a bit of a problem. I have 4 fusion reactors in orbit around Kerbin at 350 km and all are set to transmit. I have put 4 relay stations at 350 km in such a way that I know that they are in sight of any of the 4 reactors at any given time. But when I turn on the relay option, it shows that there are no satellites connected and I'm not receiving power. Can anybody shed light on this? Maybe I'm missing something? Any help would be appreciated.

Oh and thanks to the devs for an awesome mod!

[PhoeniXYZ]

In which file should I make the changes then? Just a MM-fix.cfg?

I created a .cfg-file (e.g. "KSP-0.25-fixes.cfg") and added it to the WarpPlugin folder (although you could also put it directly into GameData afaik).

This should integrate all the fixes of the last few pages:

@PART[AntimatterReactor*] {
    @TechRequired = advScienceTech
    @MODULE[FNAntimatterReactor] {
        @upgradeTechReq = experimentalScience
    }
}

@PART[AntimatterTank*] {
    @TechRequired = advScienceTech
}

@PART[FNFissionFusionCatReactor] {
    @TechRequired = specializedElectrics
    @MODULE[InterstellarCatalysedFissionFusion] {
        @upgradeTechReq = experimentalElectrics
    }
}

@PART[FusionReactor250,FusionReactor375] {
    @TechRequired = metaMaterials
    @MODULE[InterstellarTokamakFusionReator] {
        @upgradeTechReq = nanolathing
    }
}

+PART[FusionReactor250] {
    //@name = placeholder_fusion_upgrade
    @name = placeholder.fusion.upgrade
    @TechRequired = nanolathing
    @category = -1
    @title = Tokamak Upgrade
}

@PART[NuclearReactor*,FNPFissionReactor*] {
    @MODULE[InterstellarFissionMSRGC,InterstellarFissionPBDP] {
        @upgradeTechReq = metaMaterials
    }
}

@PART[FusionReactor0625,FusionReactor125] {
    @techRequired = specializedElectrics
    @MODULE[InterstellarInertialConfinementReactor] {
        @upgradeTechReq = experimentalElectrics
    }
}

@PART[*MPD] {
    @MODULE[ElectricEngineControllerFX] {
        @upgradeTechReq = experimentalScience
    }
}

@PART[ThermalTurbojet*] {
    @MODULE[FNNozzleController] {
        @upgradeTechReq = hypersonicFlight
    }
}

@PART[KSPIMagneticNozzle1]:Final
{
    @node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.401, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1
    @node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.21, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1
}
@PART[KSPIMagneticNozzle2]:Final
{
    @node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.80, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
    @node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.50, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
}
@PART[KSPIMagneticNozzle3]:Final
{
    @node_stack_top = 0.0, 1.205, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
    @node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.75, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
}

Also delete the TreeLoader folder from GameData.

If it breaks the functionality of major features (the entire tech tree) and won't function "out of the box" (nodes missing), it's not functional as-is, and still only compatible with whatever version it was last working under (0.23.5, it seems?).

In addition, if I have to start pulling individual mods out and running through the five minute KSP loading process just to try and track down which mod is causing the problem, then have to dive through 13+ pages of forum posts *hoping* someone else has mentioned the problem, it's a problem that should be fixed/mentioned in the first/initial post of the thread.

KSPi's download should be repaired with the proper fixes, or warnings about it being fundamentally broken as-is should be posted prominently.

I agree, there should be at least some warning in the initial post, maybe with a link to the workarounds suggested here.

[rainerd66]

It would be nice if there was some sort of a manual converter, so you activate the part and it will drain EC and produce MJ. That way, you could have science labs powered by insanely huge solar arrays. (But seriously, why do science labs need as much power as a small town?)

Just look at CERN, they use even more! It is depending on what the science lab is doing!

[Norcalplanner]

Hi guys, this is my first time using Interstellar.

I have a bit of a problem. I have 4 fusion reactors in orbit around Kerbin at 350 km and all are set to transmit. I have put 4 relay stations at 350 km in such a way that I know that they are in sight of any of the 4 reactors at any given time. But when I turn on the relay option, it shows that there are no satellites connected and I'm not receiving power. Can anybody shed light on this? Maybe I'm missing something? Any help would be appreciated.

Oh and thanks to the devs for an awesome mod!

Even though the relay shows that it isn't connected to the network, it most likely is. Put something with a receiver on the launchpad, right click on the activated receiver, and it should tell you how many satellites and relays you're connected to.

[Shalashalska]

@FractalUK

-snip-

This may seem rather high to you, compared to the stock engines, until you consider that most stock engines appear to be modeled after Kerosene/LOX performance specs, whereas Meth/LOX falls a *little* more towards the high-ISP low fuel-density end of the spectrum (LH2/LOX is capable of MUCH better ISP- with some engines measuring over 460s, but has a *much* lower still fuel density).

-snip-

Regards,

Northstar

Stock engines seem to be more like Meth/LOX. Some of them hit 400s, which is too high for Kerosene, which has a theoretical maximum of 353s.

[NickJames4]

So I've updated to .25, all the mods I have (the list is long) have also been updated. I started a brand new career and now I have a slight issue... Right clicking on any capsule or Kerbal results in the menu displaying the general information followed by radiation information and then rad status safe. This radiation section is repeated over and over until it extend past the edge of the screen which prevents me from using any of the button in the right click menu. Any ideas?

[sober667]

So I've updated to .25, all the mods I have (the list is long) have also been updated. I started a brand new career and now I have a slight issue... Right clicking on any capsule or Kerbal results in the menu displaying the general information followed by radiation information and then rad status safe. This radiation section is repeated over and over until it extend past the edge of the screen which prevents me from using any of the button in the right click menu. Any ideas?

Reinstal mod

[RunAwayItzJack]

So I've tried at least 3 or 4 different configurations installing Karbonite and Interstellar and the two just don't want to play together.

I can get a clean install of one or the other, but the both of them make my KSP do weird flashes and/or everything is in shadows at the MUN/Kerbin title screen, then trying to hit start will either make it crash or when I can load up a save I get a flashing between the center and a patch of ocean.

If it helps I'm playing on Mac OS X.

[Insanitic]

@Norcalplanner Thanks for the reply, yeah you're right. As soon as I activated a receiver craft, everything works and I receive power no matter where I am. Thanks!

[etmoonshade]

So basically, you want an AM version of the DT vista?

No, because the DT-Vista is way too expensive.

Actually though, that seems almost correct. The concept seems the same - use a reaction just outside the engine to create thrust.

I imagine you'd have a pure liquid fuel tank plus whatever antimatter you have onboard (possibly some internal storage, depending on how much antimatter the reaction uses?)

My thought was that it'd be decent thrust (certainly enough to use for a SSTO,) but probably fairly poor Isp compared to some of the engines that use either the core heat or energy from A/M - maybe 800s to match a NERVA, with a ratio that gives you decent mileage out of 1g of antimatter.

Edited October 19, 2014 by etmoonshade
Edited for clarity. Need more sleep.

[Jack Knife]

I made a little MM patch to fix the gaps between the magnetic nozzles if anyone is interested.

@PART[KSPIMagneticNozzle1]:Final
{
    @node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.401, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1
    @node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.21, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1
}
@PART[KSPIMagneticNozzle2]:Final
{
    @node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.80, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
    @node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.50, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
}
@PART[KSPIMagneticNozzle3]:Final
{
    @node_stack_top = 0.0, 1.205, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
    @node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.75, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
}

Exactly what I was looking for .. thank you!!

[LuvSicGrl]

Hello all, I can't be the only one experiencing this, when it asks to update interstellar I let it, but it just wants to update it again and again? any help?

[Atrius129]

Hello all, I can't be the only one experiencing this, when it asks to update interstellar I let it, but it just wants to update it again and again? any help?

Treeloader is currently broken and is causing some issues. We are resorting to this workaround for the time being:

Originally Posted by Bolter

Hi,

No, Interstellar 0.13 still has the issue with the custom tree in 0.25

The fix is easy, thanks to UndercoverYankee (page 1190, post 11898.)

Step one: Move or delete the TreeLoader folder in Gamedata out of the KSP folder

Step Two: Download the file linked on the page/post above, and place it in you KSP root folder

The progression will be different, as some parts will be on different nodes, but it's playable.

I hope that helps,

Bolter