[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[BananaDealer]

Yes and no. The KSPI lab currently really does it all. It handles data collection, and all those other non-research functions.

I suppose it would be better to say the stock lab will be redundant. It's highly unlikely to do anything the KSPI lab can't. In fact, reading about it, I'd actually almost have to say they GOT the idea from the KSPI lab.

Lol... Probably not, but I see what you mean... And again- the KSPI Science Lab can still stay after Squad implements their own... It's what being a mod entails...

[Tharios]

[snip]

To summarize:

DT Vista - working great

Plasma - too much trouble with heat

Thermal rocket - too large and heavy

Thermal turbojet - too poor thrust and isp

My main point is not to make the game easier, but to open up possibilites that are being restricted right now. For example: a plasma powered SSTO (restricted by heat), thermal rocket VTOL (restricted by size), or a thermal turbojet interceptor (restricted by thrust).

While I do think some of the gaps in thrusts between the "best" thermal propulsion/reactor combinations and the "worst" combinations of same is much too large, I can't say I agree otherwise.

Plasma rockets are for space only. It's not a restriction of options, it's just a fact of the device...it's what they're for. The same is kind of true of the thermal VTOL, it'd be cool to get it to work, but it really shouldn't.

[Fractal_UK]

Plasma engine powered designs are too greatly affected by heat. I can see the very obvious reason for this, with the lack of thermal energy venting. However, I don't think the addition of heat mechanics contributes to good gameplay. When the weight of your heatsinks exceeds the weight of your reactor, then something has gone wrong somewhere. Also, heatsinks of any kind are ugly and contribute to part count.

This is actually pretty reasonable, once you start talking about large high power output spacecraft, it's not unreasonable to be looking at 50% of the dry mass of the spacecraft being radiators. Certainly, the mass of the radiator and generator are massively outweighed by radiators. Things are nowhere near that extreme in the mod.

Given the massive reduction of parts that the powerful rockets in the mod give you, including a massive list of new capabilities, I don't think it's unreasonable to balance that against asking you to install a couple of radiators. Since working on this, I've never had to build a craft that remotely challenged my computer's ability to run it.

There is also talk of fast atmospheric jets but I am just not seeing them. Nor am I seeing working examples of any kind of ship. That is pretty telling in and of itself but let's go back to the jets. You would think a jet powered by an antimatter reactor would be able to reach at least mach 2 speeds in the lower atmosphere but that seems to be a stretch right now. Before - on .5.something the turbojets would put out a few thousand kn of thrust on one of my designs and it would seem to be a good amount of thrust but I really was not impressed even then. Now it seems like the engines have been nerfed further and they are 100% useless now, putting out only a few hundred kn of thrust. If there is a combination with high thrust now, it is certainly way too large to fit on a fighter craft.

I can only think you must be doing something wrong if you think this to be the case. The antimatter powered thermal jets are twitchy at the amount of power they produce at the moment, making them more powerful would just make them unfliable. I'm not really seeing how 607kN of thrust without using any propellant is not ludicrously impressive by any possible definition of the word. Strap two of them together and you almost have a mainsail that uses no fuel.

I'm failing to see how that can be defined as 100% useless on any level.

The trouble with the thermal rockets is they need this massive stacked assembly to work, necessitating the design of your ship in a certain way. It would be nice to see remote antimatter tanks able to feed the reactors to reduce the overall length.

They need 2 parts attached together, you don't even need a generator if you only want to use the rocket.

Also, all the other configurations below the heaviest antimatter reactor are useless.

All the antimatter reactors scale linearly with mass in terms of power output. The smaller antimatter reactors actually have better TWR because they are lower temperature, that means they make faster jets and better launch vehicles.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Fractal_UK

[BananaDealer]

Yeah, the Nova (I'll post pictures as soon as KSP's ready to stop it's hissy-fit) is a single-engine Thermal-powered interceptor. A first-generation starfighter, carrying enough liquid fuel and oxidizer for a short mission, if it launches from an orbital base, or just enough to get itself to a ~100km orbit from the KSC runway. It has two "auxiliary" thrusters for manoeuvring around satellites and stations or for performing precision burns for rendezvous/docking. In Kerbin's atmosphere, it can reach speeds of 1000 m/s and upwards at around 20 000 m using Intake Air alone (I didn't test Intake Atmosphere capabilities due to the bug reported in my previous posts), reaching 600 m/s at as low as 6 000 m.

Though Fractal... I wouldn't mind being able to "route" antimatter to reactors from different points on the ship... I mean, stack priority is OK, but some of my designs would just have long engine blocks (i.e- AM tank-> gennie-> reactor->thermal jet)... Especially if I'm planning on more than one AM storage container per block...

[Fractal_UK]

Though Fractal... I wouldn't mind being able to "route" antimatter to reactors from different points on the ship... I mean, stack priority is OK, but some of my designs would just have long engine blocks (i.e- AM tank-> gennie-> reactor->thermal jet)... Especially if I'm planning on more than one AM storage container per block...

You can use fuel lines to create antimatter flows.

[Donziboy2]

600kN?

Erm.... I broke da game....

Total of 7 intakes feeding that one engine.... After about 25Km I switch to Liquid Fuel and burn until I can clear the atmo completely. The quantum plasma's are awesome once I get into orbit, I can run them a few minutes before I have to shut down due to heat(with 6ms acceleration).... Its not a stable plane either, I suck at SSTO's or planes in general lol.

But Jeb likes it

[BananaDealer]

You can use fuel lines to create antimatter flows.

Did not know that...

[CaelReader]

The KSPI Science Lab seems to be more of a "Stick this on a station and go do other things to get a drip of science," while the .23 lab seems like "Put this on a planet, get surface samples, process samples in lab," though until we have more info we can't make a clear judgement.

[DrNuke]

I've seen reference to a chart or table showing the optimal heights for science lab orbits, but was unable to find that info. I'm trying to lock down a good altitude for max science gain in moho orbit while at the same time capturing as much antimatter as I can. Anyone have the link for best orbits for science generation? I have the updated set of charts showing antimatter density around the planets and moons.

Yeah, that's my bad. I'm still trying to figure out that best way to show the data and got distracted with playing KSP. Here is my first try at showing science across the system with the computer cores as starting point, at the moment working on the best way to show stupidity as a function of altitude and science multiplier.

Oh, this chart assumes the computer core is fully powered.

Edited November 6, 2013 by DrNuke
grammer

[Tharios]

Personally, I'm eagerly awaiting the inclusion of fusion reactors because I'm just never going to get to using antimatter. I am not, and will never be, capable of getting large stations into orbit around other worlds, even one piece at a time.

[stevron]

Personally, I'm eagerly awaiting the inclusion of fusion reactors because I'm just never going to get to using antimatter. I am not, and will never be, capable of getting large stations into orbit around other worlds, even one piece at a time.

You got KW Rocketry mate? You can lift just about anything with the 3.75m tanks/engines, the only limiting factor is if it hold together as you're turning.

[Donziboy2]

Or you can use Tac Fuel Balancer and fill as many AM tanks as you want, nobody said you have to collect it;)

[Thourion]

...SNIP...

Thanks Doc. This is very usefull, in order to plan missions accordingly. And i was about to say that you might want to increase the size of the landed state, but i forgot that the actual image is much bigger

[Xentoe]

Uhhh 0.23 wil bring a scienc elab module.

to bad they asked Fractal and zzz not to use theirs. (looks cooler)

[Skoot]

Has anyone got any tip on how to build a thermal spaceplane? Am I supposed to use rockets too or switch to LFO when I get out of the atmosphere? Cause I can't make it work... Right now I can get my 7 tons plane to fly at about 1200m/s at 28Km high, but then I'm stuck. The 28kN I get by switching to LFO can't get me into orbit, and if I have to put rockets on the damn thing then I'm better off using a regular turbojet engine (the atmospheric part of the flight does not consume any propellant with the thermal engine, but the savings in fuel don't make up for the reactor's extra mass). I'm using an upgraded nuclear reactor btw, not AM. So, is the thermal turbojet worth anything on Kerbin or should I just either use AM or use it on other planets?

Edited November 6, 2013 by Skoot

[Aranthos]

If you're trying to climb hard when your jet flames out and you swap to rocket mode you'll have trouble since you're fighting gravity more. If you climb to near-flameout and level off, build as much speed as you can on the jets while climbing gradually you'll find your jet thrust will get closer and closer to zero as you go. Once it gets below 28kN (which it will if you're going fast and high enough) flip the switch and you should be quite able to make orbit.

[forsaken1111]

Has anyone tried this out?

http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1q008p/expansionkrags_planetfactorysentar_system/

I'm thinking the warp drive will be very useful with these new planets.

Edited November 6, 2013 by forsaken1111

[Skoot]

If you're trying to climb hard when your jet flames out and you swap to rocket mode you'll have trouble since you're fighting gravity more. If you climb to near-flameout and level off, build as much speed as you can on the jets while climbing gradually you'll find your jet thrust will get closer and closer to zero as you go. Once it gets below 28kN (which it will if you're going fast and high enough) flip the switch and you should be quite able to make orbit.

Well that's exactly what I'm trying to do, I'm flying with as low vertical velocity as I can above 20km,trying to get as much speed as I can. But as the thrust goes lower and lower, I reach a point at about 28km where I'm up to 1250m/s and have to point my nose 45° up if I don't want to fall back to earth. At that point I can't get either higher or faster using the thermal turbojet. If I get any higher I start losing speed, and I'm still 1000m/s shiy of orbital velocity. Do I need more lift? Have you managed to get a small spaceplane into orbit using just the thermal jet? If so care to share more of your design?

[forsaken1111]

Well that's exactly what I'm trying to do, I'm flying with as low vertical velocity as I can above 20km,trying to get as much speed as I can. But as the thrust goes lower and lower, I reach a point at about 28km where I'm up to 1250m/s and have to point my nose 45° up if I don't want to fall back to earth. At that point I can't get either higher or faster using the thermal turbojet. If I get any higher I start losing speed, and I'm still 1000m/s shiy of orbital velocity. Do I need more lift? Have you managed to get a small spaceplane into orbit using just the thermal jet? If so care to share more of your design?

Hm, I enjoy a design challenge and I need more practice making spaceplanes anyway. I'll see if I can come up with a viable SSTO thermal turbojet design when I get home. I doubt you'll get to orbit using ONLY a thermal turbojet as it cuts out once you're out of atmosphere but I'll give it a try anyway.

[toomuchbrew]

I did a quick search, but I haven't been able to find what I am looking for. How does the science from the lab convert into science points in the research building? Here is the back story:

. I have a science lab, reactor/generator, and communications module in orbit around Minmus. The science output is about .3/day. I don't see that being added into my science pool. Am I missing a part (perhaps the computer core)? Or just not doing the correct things to transfer the science?

[wasmic]

Well that's exactly what I'm trying to do, I'm flying with as low vertical velocity as I can above 20km,trying to get as much speed as I can. But as the thrust goes lower and lower, I reach a point at about 28km where I'm up to 1250m/s and have to point my nose 45° up if I don't want to fall back to earth. At that point I can't get either higher or faster using the thermal turbojet. If I get any higher I start losing speed, and I'm still 1000m/s shiy of orbital velocity. Do I need more lift? Have you managed to get a small spaceplane into orbit using just the thermal jet? If so care to share more of your design?

I think you need more lift. Higher angle of attack → less intakeAir → less power with flameout preventer on.

[forsaken1111]

I did a quick search, but I haven't been able to find what I am looking for. How does the science from the lab convert into science points in the research building? Here is the back story:

. I have a science lab, reactor/generator, and communications module in orbit around Minmus. The science output is about .3/day. I don't see that being added into my science pool. Am I missing a part (perhaps the computer core)? Or just not doing the correct things to transfer the science?

It is simply added immediately when you switch to the lab again.

Fractal: Maybe you should add a user-initiated 'transmit' button to alleviate the obvious confusion many are experiencing over this. The lab could say "xxx science stored" and have a transmission button which uses the normal transmit mechanics. Each science point could be 10 data units so it costs power to transmit and is a bit more obvious in how it works as well as more in line with the way data is transmitted in KSP.

[Skoot]

Hm, I enjoy a design challenge and I need more practice making spaceplanes anyway. I'll see if I can come up with a viable SSTO thermal turbojet design when I get home. I doubt you'll get to orbit using ONLY a thermal turbojet as it cuts out once you're out of atmosphere but I'll give it a try anyway.

The upgraded (hybrid) version can switch to LFO or Liquid, but the thrust is then very small (17.5kN). It's enough for orbital manoeuvres and stuff, but not to get from 28 to 70 km altitude.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Skoot

[forsaken1111]

The upgraded (hybrid) version can switch to LFO or Liquid, but the thrust is then very small (28kN). It's enough for orbital manoeuvres and stuff, but not to get from 28 to 70 km altitude.

Hmm...

Alright, I have a few ideas.

To be clear, the design constraints are:

1. Fueled by antimatter (Does the reactor size matter to you? I plan to use the smallest)

2. Propelled ONLY by thermal turbojets (probably I'll use two, will see how it shakes out in testing)

3. Must reach orbit (We'll define this as >80km circular orbit) in a single stage, so no drop tanks or JATO/boosters. I could see a single-use booster getting it to orbit but you're wanting one which can get there on its own yes?

Any others?

[Aranthos]

Well that's exactly what I'm trying to do, I'm flying with as low vertical velocity as I can above 20km,trying to get as much speed as I can. But as the thrust goes lower and lower, I reach a point at about 28km where I'm up to 1250m/s and have to point my nose 45° up if I don't want to fall back to earth. At that point I can't get either higher or faster using the thermal turbojet. If I get any higher I start losing speed, and I'm still 1000m/s shiy of orbital velocity. Do I need more lift? Have you managed to get a small spaceplane into orbit using just the thermal jet? If so care to share more of your design?

I've not done it with the thermal jet but I have done it with normal turbojets and ion engines. It was a pretty dart-shaped aircraft, not a lot of lift to it. Loads of air intakes jammed on. Basically after clearing about 15-20km I'd drop the nose to 5 degrees above the horizon and just burn like hell. I needed to throttle the jets back as it climbed to avoid a flameout, but by keeping on as much power as I could with the nose just up a little bit it would accelerate to about 2,200m/s, at which point the jets would stop producing thrust (their exhaust velocity now matching the airspeed). They were each producing newtons of thrust, not kN any more when I lit the ion engine. It's easier to do with Mechjeb handling the throttle as it can jets right up to the absolute razor's edge of flaming out so you can get a lot more from them doing that.

I'm at work at the minute but I'll see if I can find the craft file when I get home if you'd like?