[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[forsaken1111]

Instead of wasting all that exotic matter you could just reduce the storage size.

Reducing the storage size reduces the range. Doing it the way I suggested will leave the drive with the same range but limit you to a single jump before recharging.

Just explain it as exotic matter being volatile once tapped for propulsion so it must be vented into space and regenerated.

[Andersenman]

EC/MJ conversion

I have tried to find useful information in this hyperinflating thread, as well as the Wiki, both to no avail.

None of my contraptions seem to be able to deliver MJ, even though there should be more than enough solar power coming in:

Craft file: http://pastebin.com/8gV6gdNU (Using stock 0.21.1 + Interstellar. Action group 1 - toggle Gigantor folding.)

Please, what am I doing wrong?

Many thanks,

A.

[forsaken1111]

I have tried to find useful information in this hyperinflating thread, as well as the Wiki, both to no avail.

None of my contraptions seem to be able to deliver MJ, even though there should be more than enough solar power coming in:

Craft file: http://pastebin.com/8gV6gdNU

Please, what am I doing wrong?

Many thanks,

A.

There is currently NO WAY to convert electric charge to MJ on a single vessel. Its something we've suggested a few times.

You CAN transmit the power and receive it and that will convert it to MJ but thats the only way I know of.

[Andersenman]

on a single vessel

If only that information were included in the Wiki, which writes so boldly, "the mod will freely convert between the standard ElectricCharge and MegaJoules at no extra charge"

Thanks for the reply!

[forsaken1111]

I can see where that would be misleading.

[NeoAcario]

Hey Fractal_UK

Any plans to have the heat sinks work with the 2.5m Kethane converters which use their own sort of radiators to keep efficiency up?

Could be useful

~Steve

[DaveStrider]

0.22 is out now! i'm looking forward to see how this mod uses the science system

[Guest]

Yeah, it'd be nice to see it converted to the new system. The current implementation is somewhat rudimentary.

[redshift690]

Really enjoying your mod Fractal_UK! Thank you, and zzz and everyone else working on this for the time and effort that your putting in this! I to am excited to see how this works with the 0.22 science system. Now if I can just get 0.22 downloaded... as there server currently seems to be a bit overwhelmed for one reason or another.

[Bibblejw]

I'd imagine that part of the issue with conversion would be that the new stuff is capital. You collect and spend it once, Fractal's is revenue, it's a resource that it generated and spent continuously.

[DaveStrider]

I'd imagine that part of the issue with conversion would be that the new stuff is capital. You collect and spend it once, Fractal's is revenue, it's a resource that it generated and spent continuously.

Trouble is, it doesn't make sense to spend science every time you upgrade a single part. Why build a subpar reactor when you know exactly how to build a better one?

[Donziboy2]

Trouble is, it doesn't make sense to spend science every time you upgrade a single part. Why build a subpar reactor when you know exactly how to build a better one?

Cost?

I can see Fractal_UK making early non upgraded parts and then more expensive upgraded parts in the later half of a tech tree. But really im sure he is playing with 0.22 and totally ignoring the thread, like I will be doing once I get home:)

[zzz]

I'd imagine that part of the issue with conversion would be that the new stuff is capital.

It's not most intresting part of issue.

Science tree is work only in Career mode - is this will be "career only" mod or make last version of parts from start(or only basic) in sandbox?

Node tree, seems like, only make "unhide in vab" without changes in stats but Fractal did opposite - is this will be automatic upgrades depending on node unlock, all variants of parts in vab or hybrid system where tree unlocks parts(now you have antimatter tech) but upgrades is handled in old way?

Edited October 16, 2013 by zzz

[Fractal_UK]

Cost?

I can see Fractal_UK making early non upgraded parts and then more expensive upgraded parts in the later half of a tech tree. But really im sure he is playing with 0.22 and totally ignoring the thread, like I will be doing once I get home:)

Okay, let me give you an example of what the plan is:

Let's say you research the Nuclear Propulsion tech. That will give you access to Solid Core Nuclear reactors and Thermal Rockets. Let's say you research a later tech that gives you access to Gas Core Reactors (let's say Metamaterials for now but I haven't actually decided on this finally yet) then the idea is that all future Nuclear Reactors you build in the VAB will automatically be Gas Core designs but if you have older Solid Core still flying in space, you can upgrade them as you could before with the retrofit option.

I'm pretty sure this works in theory but I'm madly working out what I need to do to get the mod properly integrated with 0.22.

Also, I fear I'm going to be short on tech nodes unless I figure out a way to add more.

[Donziboy2]

Fractal_UK take some time to enjoy KSP while your at it;)

[Xentoe]

So, there is a limit of Texchtree spots? (additional to the damn memorylimt?)

Hell... another modlimiter .-(

[sidfu]

from what i gather to add more nodes to tech tree u have to create some type of .dll. did u check the mod dev thread thout they updated the mod part about .22 might have the info u need

[SeventhArchitect]

Cheers. Eeloo is a great destination for developing science infrastructure, good luck with the mission!

---

Oh and by the way, just wanted to share a cool little imagine I produced during development. When I was saying to be careful of antimatter explosions, well, I meant it

Goodbye Kerbal Space Centre and thanks for all the rockets!

The architect gives you seven thumbs up. gimme the files so I can have this too.

[Tharios]

Trouble is, it doesn't make sense to spend science every time you upgrade a single part. Why build a subpar reactor when you know exactly how to build a better one?

It should be noted that our current technological capabilities far outstrip what's commonly available, or even what's used most frequently in higher-order applications. A lot of that is cost, some of it is politics (hence, no nuclear engines, even though we essentially completed their development decades ago), and some of it is what I consider a kind of scientific "fear" for lack of a better word. Scientists today are terrified of not living up to their predecessors, those idols who inspired them to become scientists in the first place. It's hard to push the envelope when your primary concern is whether or not your contribution will measure up to the ground-breaking work of those who are the reason for your entering the field in the first place.

Granted, none of that matters in the game...but in those terms, it could be a meta-explanation.

[forsaken1111]

In any case, he said he'd like it to auto-upgrade parts once you have the research completed so that sounds awesome.

[Chase]

I hope no one lynches me for this, but I will be as honest and straight forward as I can. This is all my personal opinion, so grains of salt. Some of these have probably been touched on in the last 200 pages. But that is 200 pages, and I think it should be touched on again, even if it has.

I hope he integrates this well with the new Science system in 0.22. I can see the research lab staying around, but converted to use the science system, while the research system just goes away (since the Science system is far more evolved it seems like, it even varies on biome!). I think this would be a major benefit to this mod, since it already had a research system and should have at least a small head start on other mods at implementing it.

I personally think old parts in space should remain old parts in space unless there is a Kerbal nearby that can make adjustments, which is the best way to go about upgrading old stuff in KSP, since that is how real astronauts do it to say... Hubble. But even then the amount they can upgrade an old something should be limited. The more complex something probably the easier it is to justify being able to retrofit it (see chaos theory, a small change in a complex system achieves a larger end change then a large change in a very simple system). You don't seem them upgrading Voyager 1 or 2 with new reactors/engines! But they find new ways to use the old scientific instruments, but it doesn't mean the spacecraft itself changed in any way.

That said, I still think he should take this opportunity to make adjustment to some of the core attributes of the mod. Such as reducing the scale of some of the numbers he uses, and possibly switching MJ to stock EC.

I don't really understand the need for two types of electricity, and while such things exist in reality (AC vs DC, Hertz, Voltage, etc), I think there is major benefit to keeping things simple. One less thing for people to learn. But I can see some of this mods stuff using a completely ludicrous amount of EC. Which would mean things that consume a lot of power would rely on active generation rather then stored power (but we already do that with ion engines, so no big issue). But it would also mean we could use a boatload of solar panels to power a Alcubierre Drive if we wanted (and why not, this is KSP right?) despite being very slow to charge.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Chase

[forsaken1111]

The point behind the use of MJ as I recall was that electriccharge as a resource cannot be touched by his custom resource handler which allows the reactors to dynamically scale their output for example.

[forsaken1111]

Hey Fractal:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53192-0-22-TreeLoader-Custom-Career-Tech-tree-Loader-1-0

[Tharios]

I hope no one lynches me for this, but I will be as honest and straight forward as I can. This is all my personal opinion, so grains of salt. Some of these have probably been touched on in the last 200 pages. But that is 200 pages, and I think it should be touched on again, even if it has.

No lynching, but keep in mind, an opinion without some foundation of evidence or fact, isn't much of an opinion and probably won't be taken seriously. Not saying that's the case here, but we'll see. It's just a caveat I apply to all statements of opinion.

It has been touched on briefly a number of times throughout the thread, but typically only for very selfish and unproductive reasons. Rarely are they articulated particularly well, either. But constructive discussion on any topic is always a good thing.

I hope he integrates this well with the new Science system in 0.22. I can see the research lab staying around, but converted to use the science system, while the research system just goes away (since the Science system is far more evolved it seems like, it even varies on biome!). I think this would be a major benefit to this mod, since it already had a research system and should have at least a small head start on other mods at implementing it.

I don't think this is a particular concern. Most of what he's considered doing to merge the two is quite encouraging. Removing the research system he put in place might be necessary, but unfortunate. I actually prefer his version to .22. His system is more challenging, better suited to skilled players.

But I'm confident he'll figure out the best of both worlds.

I personally think old parts in space should remain old parts in space unless there is a Kerbal nearby that can make adjustments, which is the best way to go about upgrading old stuff in KSP, since that is how real astronauts do it to say... Hubble. But even then the amount they can upgrade an old something should be limited. The more complex something probably the easier it is to justify being able to retrofit it (see chaos theory, a small change in a complex system achieves a larger end change then a large change in a very simple system). You don't seem them upgrading Voyager 1 or 2 with new reactors/engines! But they find new ways to use the old scientific instruments, but it doesn't mean the spacecraft itself changed in any way.

I can somewhat agree to that. Though there's a world of difference between upgrading a permanent station or base, an interplanetary ship, and a simple deep space probe. So while you're not wrong, the position isn't really relevant. At no point in this mod is it implied that you should always upgrade everything that's upgradable.

That said, I still think he should take this opportunity to make adjustment to some of the core attributes of the mod. Such as reducing the scale of some of the numbers he uses, and possibly switching MJ to stock EC.

I don't really understand the need for two types of electricity, and while such things exist in reality (AC vs DC, Hertz, Voltage, etc), I think there is major benefit to keeping things simple. One less thing for people to learn. But I can see some of this mods stuff using a completely ludicrous amount of EC. Which would mean things that consume a lot of power would rely on active generation rather then stored power (but we already do that with ion engines, so no big issue). But it would also mean we could use a boatload of solar panels to power a Alcubierre Drive if we wanted (and why not, this is KSP right?) despite being very slow to charge.

The numbers are fine for the most part, although they should be adjusted to make things more difficult. It's been clearly demonstrated how easily abused the warp drive can be. Fortunately that should soon cease to be an issue.

There are two types of "electrical power" for the sake of resource control. It's intended to force players to more carefully use what they have, planning for each need, rather than simply "hogging" a certain part to acquire excessive power or whatnot. Contrary to (unfortunately) popular belief, that is NOT the purpose of KSP. If you thought the game would be like that by the time it was finished, you were always in for a rude shock then. It's meant to be a major challenge, with almost as much of the headaches and triumphs of running a real space program. Fractal wants to make it more interesting and more challenging. So it's just a fact you'll have to accept.

And no, a warp drive should not be powered by solar panels, unless it's a large array of very special panels designed for maximum efficiency, clear of planetary zones. Much like the solar collectors from the Battletech universe. That might not be such a bad idea then.

This has been a pretty good conversation. Now we can sit back and see what happens.

[Chase]

The numbers are fine for the most part, although they should be adjusted to make things more difficult. It's been clearly demonstrated how easily abused the warp drive can be. Fortunately that should soon cease to be an issue.

Fortunatelt the drive here is fairly balanced, a few tweaks to keep it from being used for excessively short hops might be in order.

There are two types of "electrical power" for the sake of resource control. It's intended to force players to more carefully use what they have, planning for each need, rather than simply "hogging" a certain part to acquire excessive power or whatnot.

Contrary to (unfortunately) popular belief, that is NOT the purpose of KSP. If you thought the game would be like that by the time it was finished, you were always in for a rude shock then.

What isn't the purpose, to be simple? I didn't say the game was suppose to be simple, I just see no reason to further complicate the game with 'yet another resource' that does pretty much the same thing as something we already have, and no need to get rude.

It's meant to be a major challenge, with almost as much of the headaches and triumphs of running a real space program. Fractal wants to make it more interesting and more challenging. So it's just a fact you'll have to accept.

Yes, the game is suppose to be challenging, and it is. What it isn't suppose to be is a boring grind. So it's just a fact you'll have to accept. (This phrase is rather hostile for me, but I hope you realize it yourself and decide to say things in a nicer way from now on.)

And no, a warp drive should not be powered by solar panels, unless it's a large array of very special panels designed for maximum efficiency, clear of planetary zones. Much like the solar collectors from the Battletech universe. That might not be such a bad idea then.

Of course it would be a large array, that is, if you want to get anywhere in any useful period of time. But there is no reason you can't just charge it up for a year before use and then fire away.