[space] Is Mars-one a scam?

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

The headline of this thread isn't supported by the link in the OP. I'm personally inclined to believe that it's hokey at best and a scam at worst, but the article doesn't prove that it is.

Good point, I was pretty biased on the subject already. I'll change it to something more neutral.

[LordFerret]

"Because of Mars One’s eventual failure, Roche fears that people will lose faith in trustworthy agencies like NASA and perhaps even scientists in general."

Right from the start, I thought it a pipe-dream and had doubts. This doesn't surprise me. As for the statement by Roche, I lost faith in NASA ages ago when the government took over and it was no longer a public agency ... and as for scientists?... "global warming" / climate change / climate disruption / whatever you want to call it, clinched it... I take everything they claim at this point with a grain of salt.

[Lohan2008]

Nope. Not surprised one bit. DITTO.

[PB666]

So you guys think that Bas Lansdorp sold his company, started a non-profit organization, got a team, advisors and ambassadors together, opened applications and paid money to paragon to develop the space suit and life support just for the media hype?

And then there's the suppliers, partners, sponsors and contributors. You think those people would stick out there necks if the knew it was just media hype?

Mars One has only 2 problems; Money and time, and the time part isn't that big of a problem if you can reschedule.

So basically their only problem is getting enough money so they can get the ball rolling.

They have a third problem or lets say two, physics and biology. Mars is a long way from earth most of which is pure space, and humans don't live well in pure space (they tend to undergo lyophilization). Unless they can contract with the Russians, to build their vehicles, they don't have a ghost of a chance. I don't see how you can call it a scam per say, if you told them there that they would be returned alive to Earth once landed on Mars, that would be a scam. It you tell them its a trip with no return, when their dessicated bodies crash into Mars, they got what they signed up for.

As for the suppliers, . . . , . . . , . . . . companies do all sorts of stupid. Remember the broadband movies online, that was about 10 years ahead of it infrastructure under active development by another now Dutch owned (is vestiges) company called ENRON. Their motto was why not? (The answer was cause its friggen stupid).

[Vanamonde]

Mars One threads merged.

[hugix]

Yeeey, my old thread is back up.

in order to set up a colony Mars-one (still without any astronauts!) needs at least 9 launches according to their plan to set up the colony. Ramping up a 36billion USD cost. Just for the infrastructure. No group of multinationals is going to fund up front such a huge, Huge, HUGE sum of money on something that might not even become reality. (this is why Endemol stopped the partnership).

By now, Mars-one has gotten 759,816 USD from donations on the site. $313,744 via a Indygogo campaign (minus $28,237 fee from Indygogo). And it got about $50,00 fee from the candidates. This article claims that was a total of 2,761 applicants.

All totaling up to $1,183,373.... Now Bas Lansdorp might not be going to Mars, but he doesn't care. With 1.1 million dollars he's going some place nice and warm.

[peadar1987]

"Because of Mars One’s eventual failure, Roche fears that people will lose faith in trustworthy agencies like NASA and perhaps even scientists in general."

Right from the start, I thought it a pipe-dream and had doubts. This doesn't surprise me. As for the statement by Roche, I lost faith in NASA ages ago when the government took over and it was no longer a public agency ... and as for scientists?... "global warming" / climate change / climate disruption / whatever you want to call it, clinched it... I take everything they claim at this point with a grain of salt.

Edit: mean post, deleted.

[Mazon Del]

I'm not surprised, but as I've said before and shall say again, I feel given the information I had at the time, that it was worth the $40.

[Voyager55]

Assuming it is a scam, it's quite sad to see how devoted and hopeful many of the 100 finalists are. Literally preying on people's dreams, it's disgusting.

[Nibb31]

I lost faith in NASA ages ago when the government took over and it was no longer a public agency ...

Huh?

NASA has always been a government agency.

[FishInferno]

I personally am not going to make any assumptions about Mars One until stuff happens (or doesn't happen). This finalist from the link could just be mad that he didn't get chosen and trying to get attention. I do not believe that Mars One is a scam. In fact, I want them to succeed. But their plan is very optimistic and I will not be surprised if they fail.

[lajoswinkler]

Their plan is not optimistic. Optimistic is when you have a decent chance of success and you hope you'll succeed.

This is pure lunacy. Even if money is somehow magically gathered (it won't), it will end in death. 100% certainly.

[Darnok]

Assuming Mars One is going to succed and colony is going to be self sufficient (with basic resources) over years... then

Where are they going to pay taxes?

What law is going to be in there?

What nationality will have children?

In what currency they will make trade with the Earth?

Banks will be there for people to take out loans, so needed to live, or people will have to simply work to sustain and prosper?

[peadar1987]

Their plan is not optimistic. Optimistic is when you have a decent chance of success and you hope you'll succeed.

This is pure lunacy. Even if money is somehow magically gathered (it won't), it will end in death. 100% certainly.

Well, so will staying on earth, eventually. If they get the money together, if they can keep the base resupplied, if there are no catastrophic failures, and if they can solve the problem of long-term closed-loop life support (they won't actually achieve any of these things), the whole "you'll die on Mars" angle isn't really a great argument. Provided the supply drops keep coming and the habitat doesn't depressurise, you're probably not going to live much of a shorter life than you would have had you stayed home.

[Dkmdlb]

Where are they going to pay taxes?

What law is going to be in there?

What nationality will have children?

In what currency they will make trade with the Earth?

Banks will be there for people to take out loans, so needed to live, or people will have to simply work to sustain and prosper?

These questions range from not at all important or based on false premises (where are they going to pay taxes) to already solved (what nationality will have children) to easily solvable with a little bit of thought (the question about banks).

[LordFerret]

Huh?

NASA has always been a government agency.

No, NASA started out as a 'public' agency. I'm old enough to remember that.

[Darnok]

These questions range from not at all important or based on false premises (where are they going to pay taxes) to already solved (what nationality will have children) to easily solvable with a little bit of thought (the question about banks).

Awesome, so what are those answers?

[Dkmdlb]

What's the difference between public agency and government agency?

[LordFerret]

What's the difference between public agency and government agency?

In the beginning, when it was a public agency, access to all its data and technology was open ... mission data streams (video/radio) were wide open, anybody could tune in and watch. All that ended after the government clamped down, during Apollo, it was all locked up ... the mission data is transmitted on non-conventional bands and oft encrypted, to keep the public eye off. Now, they feed you bits and pieces, what they want you to know about.

[Budgie]

In the beginning, when it was a public agency, access to all its data and technology was open ... mission data streams (video/radio) were wide open, anybody could tune in and watch. All that ended after the government clamped down, during Apollo, it was all locked up ... the mission data is transmitted on non-conventional bands and oft encrypted, to keep the public eye off. Now, they feed you bits and pieces, what they want you to know about.

Something tells me you just can't run a space program all open like that when you're competing to get to the moon as a proxy for other international issues (and I'd much rather a race to the moon than another Vietnam or Soviet Afghanistan ). I'm okay with the bits and pieces given to me, because its a lot more than some other government agencies.

To stay on topic with Mars One, though, I am of the belief that a private space program could make it to mars, given enough time and money, in our current era. But not at the scale Mars One hopes to do it in, not yet

[magnemoe]

Something tells me you just can't run a space program all open like that when you're competing to get to the moon as a proxy for other international issues (and I'd much rather a race to the moon than another Vietnam or Soviet Afghanistan ). I'm okay with the bits and pieces given to me, because its a lot more than some other government agencies.

To stay on topic with Mars One, though, I am of the belief that a private space program could make it to mars, given enough time and money, in our current era. But not at the scale Mars One hopes to do it in, not yet

More accureat they did not want the enemy to get info neither the chance to gloat because of minor mistakes, main reason was that encryption was getting simpler, however I think the tv signals was unencrypted. The mission data might be however that might also has to do with signal quality, an encrypted signal will give error with fail, an unecrypted might give the set Pe to -40 km on a single bit fail. Numerous tests on kerbals and probes attests that negative Pe is bad for you health.

[Bill Phil]

In the beginning, when it was a public agency, access to all its data and technology was open ... mission data streams (video/radio) were wide open, anybody could tune in and watch. All that ended after the government clamped down, during Apollo, it was all locked up ... the mission data is transmitted on non-conventional bands and oft encrypted, to keep the public eye off. Now, they feed you bits and pieces, what they want you to know about.

It's paid for by tax dollars. By law ( recent law) they have to give the public the fruits of those tax dollars.

The government chose to make it anyways. It is the National Aeronautcs and Space Administration for a good reason. Key word here is "National".

[SargeRho]

And they do. As opposed to most other agencies.

[Technical Ben]

Assuming Mars One is going to succed and colony is going to be self sufficient (with basic resources) over years... then

Where are they going to pay taxes?

What law is going to be in there?

What nationality will have children?

In what currency they will make trade with the Earth?

Banks will be there for people to take out loans, so needed to live, or people will have to simply work to sustain and prosper?

(I assume, I am not a layer)

They would not be required to pay taxes, unless American citizens. American applicants (while on Mars) will have to fill out and post (big stamp!) a tax return/form for filling with the IRS.

They would be governed by "Space Law". Which is an actual thing. Though not as fun as it sounds, it's just national and international law extended to... SPAAAAAAAAAAACE! (Which might mean all these countries help if a rescue is needed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_Agreement ) They would also be under laws that apply to residents/citizens of a country while outside of it's territories. So, a pon return, or even in their absence they could be served as criminals, for murder/theft/etc. No idea what their bail would cost though!

There will be no children. But if there were to be, the answer is easy to deduce. If born on Mars, they could be considered by the nation of "descent". If they are clever and return to the lander for the birth, then the child inherits the nationality of the craft, in which case it's more like "nation of orbital descent!"

They obviously trade in Roman coins (cookie for anyone who gets the reference!).

As long as there are two people, there can be a bank. One just lends the other a denarius.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Technical Ben

[Voyager55]

Make of this what you will, he's one of the 100 finalist and in contact with Bas.

I'm still not exactly convinced, there are far many more issues, but there were alot of inaccuracies in the article everyone's been citing. Edited March 19, 2015 by Voyager55