[1.1.2] Station Science (v2.0: New models by SpeedyB)

[ethernet]

Hi Ethernet and all... This mod looks really interesting to me, especially with the now completely broken stock MPL. But I had a couple questions about how the mod is supposed to work/flow of the inputs.

Required:

1) Lots of power

2) Science Lab --> Eurekas

2 other basic components:

1) Zoology Bay (w/kibbal container) --> Bioproducts

2) Cyclotron --> kuarqs

These 3 base "materials", kuarqs, bioproducts, and eurekas are used by the other modules... (e.g. kuarqs + eurekas + prograde\retorgrade kuarqs experiments --> science)

If I'm misunderstanding any of the above please let me know...

Basically right. Although to get Eurekas, you don't really need "lots" of power. It's the Kuarqs, from the Cyclotron, that require a large amount of power.

Now my questions:

1) I can run the experiment from each module once and get science from it?

2) I can also get more science from a module even if it has been already run once if requested through a contract?

3) This is the part I'm not sure about, are the experiment modules essentially meant to be returned to kerbal?

4) Is the science limited to once per module or once per experiment? If I bring down one prograde kuarq experiment back to kerbal, and bring up a new prograde kuarq module and dock it, then can I get science again from the new module?

5) Is the Spectrometron limited to one use per different type of soil sample or can I run it more than once per sample type? Like, can I bring it 4 samples in a row from the shores of kerbal and get repeated science from them?

5a) If it is limited to once per soil type, does that apply globally or only as to that Spectrometron?

Thanks

You can run each Experiment pod in a given situation (high or low orbit around a given body) once for Science from the experiment itself. You can get contracts for repeats that give money, and a little Science, but repeats themselves don't give more Science.

The pods must be returned to complete Contracts. Most may be transmitted (ones requiring Kibbal cannot), but it won't give you the full amount, and won't complete your Contracts.

The Spectrometron actually works on all experiment results now. The description in the OP was out of date. I've fixed it now. It doesn't make the experiment any more repeatable, though. It just lets you transmit at a higher percentage, but you can't get any more than you could get through returning it a few times (you'll get a little less ultimately vs doing actual return trips). The per biome/situation limits are determined by the underlying experiment type.

[Tig]

Thanks for the fast response and for the balanced mod, I was looking for a non-game breaking station lab and it sounds like this fits that perfectly.

You can run each Experiment pod in a given situation (high or low orbit around a given body) once for Science from the experiment itself. You can get contracts for repeats that give money, and a little Science, but repeats themselves don't give more Science.

If I'm reading the bitmasks correctly can these also be used on the ground? (51 is for space high\low & landed & splashed if i understand correctly)

Also if that's right, then the zoology test can be done while flying... incoming bioproducts at mach 2.

The Spectrometron actually works on all experiment results now. The description in the OP was out of date. I've fixed it now. It doesn't make the experiment any more repeatable, though. It just lets you transmit at a higher percentage, but you can't get any more than you could get through returning it a few times (you'll get a little less ultimately vs doing actual return trips). The per biome/situation limits are determined by the underlying experiment type.

Ahh, okay so while the other items are new science entries, the Specto is just a massive transmit increase over stock, but still only applies to the stock "surface sample"?

[Boots]

I've had a problem with one of the contracts. It asked me to do Creature Comforts in Kerbin orbit. I launched the experiment and it got the tick for "launch new experiment," but once I changed focus to a different ship it lost that tick. If I then separated it from the station, the tick came back.

I've noticed the same problem with the plant growth experiment - the tick doesn't stay ticked once you focus on a different ship.

The other ticks - 'run experiment' and 'return to Kerbin' both work fine.

[obi1kenobi]

I also have a small problem with the experiments. When Finalizing the experiment, I chose to send the data to my lab for analysis. Afterward, I was unable to remove the data out of the experiment via EVA -- there was a Throw Away button in the context menu, but no Take Data.

This sounds like it may be a simple bug to fix, but if I am mistaken, please let me know and I'll provide more details.

[Jansn]

I also have a small problem with the experiments. When Finalizing the experiment, I chose to send the data to my lab for analysis. Afterward, I was unable to remove the data out of the experiment via EVA -- there was a Throw Away button in the context menu, but no Take Data.

This sounds like it may be a simple bug to fix, but if I am mistaken, please let me know and I'll provide more details.

Maybe only a Scientist can take/handle Science Data.. ?

[PowWowKen]

This is working as intended. Repeating the same experiment in the same place doesn't give more Science; you get it all the first time. You get a little Science from Contracts for repeats, but not from the experiment itself.

And that's why i deleted this mod despite losing a decent career save! So I'm supposed to build a giant resource eating station, that i have to launch new experiments to everytime, and I only get the science value once? That's just dumb, like really dumb... Why the restriction of needing to launch new experiments up to it then as well as the multiple sections? As soon as you research an experiment with your new fancy expensive station addition that addition is now garbage. Just depreciate the science value or something, at this point I will never bother with this mod again because that's the way it works.

- - - Updated - - -

This is working as intended. Repeating the same experiment in the same place doesn't give more Science; you get it all the first time. You get a little Science from Contracts for repeats, but not from the experiment itself.

And that's why i deleted this mod despite losing a decent career save! So I'm supposed to build a giant resource eating station, that i have to launch new experiments to everytime, and I only get the science value once? That's just dumb, like really dumb... Why the restriction of needing to launch new experiments up to it then as well as the multiple sections? As soon as you research an experiment with your new fancy expensive station addition that addition is now garbage. Just depreciate the science value or something, at this point I will never bother with this mod again because that's the way it works.

[Red Iron Crown]

PowWowKen, please try to be a bit more constructive in your criticism, and remember that modders are volunteers who make add-ons in their spare time. There is never call for such a rude post, IMO. If you don't like the mod, uninstall it and move on; if you think of ways in which it can be improved, try sharing them in a non-insulting manner and they might get the attention they deserve.

[Vist]

Small correction to my previous posts: the problem is with Spectrometron, not the Cyclotron as I said.

Interesting fact just checked:

if I freshly switch to the station and right click on the spectrometron, it will start to loop the available experiments. But if I click to start analysing one of them, the loop stops until I review the results.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l18/igorsouz/KSP/th_Spect1.jpg http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l18/igorsouz/KSP/th_Spect2.jpg

After I reviewed, it starts to loop again without refreshing the previous items. It stops the loop if I start another analysis (as before).

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l18/igorsouz/KSP/th_Spect3.jpg

Hi everybody

Just bumping what Igor Souza reported on the looping analyzing experiments in the spectrometron. :">

Regards and thanks in advance.

[TheAnswerIsIsaacNewton]

And that's why i deleted this mod despite losing a decent career save! So I'm supposed to build a giant resource eating station, that i have to launch new experiments to everytime, and I only get the science value once? That's just dumb, like really dumb... Why the restriction of needing to launch new experiments up to it then as well as the multiple sections? As soon as you research an experiment with your new fancy expensive station addition that addition is now garbage. Just depreciate the science value or something, at this point I will never bother with this mod again because that's the way it works.

You can always create your own experiments if you don't think there are enough to make it worthwhile. There was a mod with a series of fuel-based experiments abandoned a while ago. Or make some that require other resources...uranium, RocketParts, water, civilians, whatever.

[Jansn]

There was a mod with a series of fuel-based experiments abandoned a while ago.

Is/was that: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/81578-0-90-Orbital-Material-Science-version-0-6

[TheAnswerIsIsaacNewton]

This one, IIRC: Fuel Science

[Jansn]

This one, IIRC: Fuel Science

Wow ;-), sad that there is no update anymore.

Big Problem: after some tries and several new started savegames i experience that all the station science contracts

loose the "launch new experiment" flag. i also tried to "cheat" that into the persistent and quicksave file, but it always

jump back to "NewPodParameter State = Incomplete", so i can recover on kerbin but never get the contract funds.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Edit & Update: have to reassemble stored vessel with a new/changed science module, then

contracts accepts the "new vessel flag". this mod (or the "modded" contract system beside

dont like "reused" vessels.. !?!?)

Just put the same science module into the rocket and delete the old one and stick them back

together. Now lets see, if the flag keeps till they get recoverd on Körbin.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Jansn

[anxcon]

in StationScienceModule, checkTrait(), could you add to that to also check a requiredExperience field or such? so say 5 star scientist be required for some higher end experiments, other basic ones 1 star

[zeropositivo]

You can always create your own experiments if you don't think there are enough to make it worthwhile. There was a mod with a series of fuel-based experiments abandoned a while ago. Or make some that require other resources...uranium, RocketParts, water, civilians, whatever.

Oh? this intrigues me. How would you go ahead to create more experiments? and can they use any resource? I'd love to make one that uses ore, for example

[ethernet]

And that's why i deleted this mod despite losing a decent career save! So I'm supposed to build a giant resource eating station, that i have to launch new experiments to everytime, and I only get the science value once? That's just dumb, like really dumb... Why the restriction of needing to launch new experiments up to it then as well as the multiple sections? As soon as you research an experiment with your new fancy expensive station addition that addition is now garbage. Just depreciate the science value or something, at this point I will never bother with this mod again because that's the way it works.

A station for which you do each experiment only once (and under contract each time) should be quite profitable. So it's not a "giant resource eating station", unless your launch designs are just wildly inefficient. And if you use an SSTO to do repeat experiments (also under contract), it should be a comfortable source of income.

What I don't want to do is for the "Science" game to become trivial once you build a single station, This is what unlimited repeats would do. The whole stock game is primarily structured around rewarding for doing new things, not repeating the same things over and over. This is a good design, and one I want to maintain in Station Science.

However, if you prefer to be able to get more Science out of your station, you can modify the /StationScience/Resources/Experiments.cfg file. Simply change the "scienceCap" value for each experiment to whatever total amount of Science you thing is fair for a given experiment in low kerbin orbit.

[eddiew]

You can also have each science module as a separate unit, and use a tug to tow it around all over the system. The initial launch is hard, but once you've got them out to Minmus, it's pretty cheap to send them further afield and shunt them between outposts

[damerell]

You can also have each science module as a separate unit, and use a tug to tow it around all over the system. The initial launch is hard, but once you've got them out to Minmus, it's pretty cheap to send them further afield and shunt them between outposts

Or build the entire station line-astern and tug the whole thing around the solar system.

[eddiew]

Or build the entire station line-astern and tug the whole thing around the solar system.

I did that once, but I only had 1.25m docking ports. It was like piloting a noodle.

[hab136]

I did that once, but I only had 1.25m docking ports. It was like piloting a noodle.

It's easier to pull a noodle than push it. Put two engines up front on arms, and your cargo trailing behind.

[eddiew]

The engine was in front... it was still dangerous to manoeuvre with it, since any change of heading caused the whole thing to bend and wobble, which pulled the thrust off-centre and generally made things worse.

The moral of the story was to get 2.5m ports before attempting to move SS components around.

[sebbemann]

Hi!

Appreciate the mod, like it a lot! It is essential in KSP as it bring a whole new approach and meaning to space stations.

I've built a spacestation with experiments from the StationScience mod to complete a set of missions dependant on the experements. The missions say I have to return the experiment module back to Kerbin. I suppose this is by design, so it will give a little more challenge to de-orbit the experiment module before you get the reward. But i've built a station with several experiments, capable of interplanetary transfer, so I can complete missons for other planets without launching new stations. Is there anyway I can complete the experiment-missions without returning the experiment module it self back to Kerbin?

Edited October 18, 2015 by sebbemann

[damerell]

I've built a spacestation with experiments from the StationScience mod to complete a set of missions dependant on the experements. The missions say I have to return the experiment module back to Kerbin. I suppose this is by design, so it will give a little more challenge to de-orbit the experiment module before you get the reward. But i've built a station with several experiments, capable of interplanetary transfer, so I can complete missons for other planets without launching new stations. Is there anyway I can complete the experiment-missions without returning the experiment module it self back to Kerbin?

No; the little more challenge of de-orbiting the experiment module may be a lot more challenge of returning it from another planet. But the poor old Kerbals on your space station need crew rotation anyway. :-)

[Patata]

Hello!

I might have found a new bug, at least, I couldn't find anything on the internet and I have already posted my problem in this forum (in general add-on affairs), where I got adviced to post my problem here. Here is the link to the thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/137410-Science-Station-Mod-Experiment-Plant-Growth

Short conclusion: If I want to start the Experiment: Plant Growth, I have to click on "Start Research" at the lab, right? The Problem is, that I get the message "no scientists", even I have 4 scientists stationed in the lab. I have fullfilled every other requirement to complete the experiment.

Edit:

I have these mods installed:

- Deutsch Patch

- MechJeb 2

- Greenhouse Mk1-master

- Kerbal Alarm Clock_3.4.0.0

- KSPI_Extended_1.5.13

- ModuleManager-2.6.8

- Planetary Base Inc 0_2_7b

- Station Science 1.5

- TAC Life Support_0.11.1.20

- TACLS Mining

Edit:

Problem solved: I have to delete the "Deutsch Patch" and the "Language Package" (which comes with the "Deutsch Patch"), then, the lab says "100% functional". Funny that this caused the problem.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Patata

[Nicholiathan]

I forgot to R.T.D.M. before I accepted this station science contract and now really wish I'd paid more attention. The contract wants me to take a guest pilot to Hadrun's Ramp on the Mun and preform an Eccentric Kuarq and Retrogrades Kuarq experiments. For some reason I thought I could load my Kuards into the experiment at my LKO space station, dock my experiment onto a lander and then take that to the Mun. Nope! I have to take 2 cyclotrons and at THN-KR to Hadrun's Ramp. For this I'm "rewarded" a bit over 200k roots. That just barely covers the cost of one of the 3 launches to 4 launches and then I've got a low-latitude Mun base that has poor concentrations of resources.

In sumary, make sure to carefully consider the cost before accepting the contracts from this mod. You can lose a substantial amount of roots in doing so.

[Boots]

Is this mid compatible with 1.0.5 out of the box?