[1.1.2] Station Science (v2.0: New models by SpeedyB)

[Vrana]

I decdied to share my Kerbin orbital science base with you...

... given the minimal amount of Science per experiment, that makes the Science very expensive.

Indeed, its gets ludicrously expensive really fast. But it is worth it, i mean, why else would i build this...

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...and that station is worth every penny just for being there, even if will take ages to make up for its cost. To me at least.

Ok. Ok. I admit i would have(and have been) built similar gargantuan projects anyway. Still its nice to have a purpose for them(other then my imagination).

Thanks for the awesome mod.

[lipatden]

My only "complaint" about the mod is that an experiment can be performed only once in the SOI of a body;. For instance, you cannot run the Plant Growth experiment twice when orbiting Kerbin.

Yes you can, once in low orbit, once in high. I've also built my second station with transport in mind (e.g. launching with empty tanks as structural elements) so they can be ported to wherever there is SCIENCE to do (Mun, Minmus) once I shift some fuel there. This does of course imply you're on the regular docking port (the prototype doesn't allow fuel transfers) but this is the nature of progress.

[lipatden]

Spectrometron:

Generally I like the idea, but for my taste having to haul 15 additional tons around just to get the science points a bit earlier (Assuming the Kerbals are not planned to die in deep space a return craft should be available anyways and who of us would kill Kerbals by purpose?? ) is not really worth it.

I agree it's not very useful. My hope has been that biomes get added to other planets to make it more useful. I considered taking it out, but I figured some might like it. I might add a contract that uses it, though.

On the contrary, I'm more than happy to send these guys and the spectro off to distant worlds, transmit the science back and use it to unlock the parts needed to actually build a return vehicle and send it to them post-haste

[Noio]

First off, thanks for a great mod - this one has quickly found a home on my 'must have' list. I very much like the mechanic of forcing Jeb to do something to get science which he can trade for tasty snacks, instead of just letting him phone it in from the couch.

Alas, the science lab doesn't seem to play nicely with TAC Life Support - if I mount solar panels on it, electric charge isn't generated. And it's hard to do science when the heating isn't working. By attaching a second TAC-friendly command module to the station, I was able to get it to start generating electricity properly, but I am bummed out that all those scientists can't wire up the panels for themselves.

Is there a way we could get this to play nicely with TAC Life Support? That would be faaaan-tastic.

[wildreality]

Hey Guys...

So after much testing with all my other mods. After I loaded Science Station, my game crashes after the loading screen is complete! Could this be another clash from one of my other mods.

But it is def SS... Without that, KSP works fine!

PS There is no normal crash report, so I am not sure where I can get the information regarding the crash.

[Alvin853]

Are there CLS configs for the labs somewhere or do I have to write my own ones?

[Jasmir]

Are there CLS configs for the labs somewhere or do I have to write my own ones?

I'am also interested in those. If you wrote them, pls share.

(CLS -> Connected Living Space -> http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/70161)

[Sassenach]

There is a CLS config linked back on page 40.

[Apollo13]

The contract was for eccentric Kquargs around Minmus. I completed the experiment (confirmed in contracts window) and returned to Kerbin. I parachuted the experiment with one set of chutes while the manned command capsule came down separately. DebRefund mod indicated the Experiment arrived safely (2.5 m/s) However, I received no notification that the contract was completed.

Does the Experiment need to arrive with the command module or probe to be credited? Perhaps, because DebRefund recognized it as debris, could that be the problem? Perhaps, I need to have the vessel camera focus on the experiment when it's under the chutes.

So, I had to do the ALT-F12/Contracts/Com fix.

I'm using KSP 0.24.2, 32-bit version.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Apollo13

[ethernet]

Is there a way we could get this to play nicely with TAC Life Support? That would be faaaan-tastic.

I suspect that the problem is that in order to actually use electricity, you need to have a battery. The stock command parts all have integrated batteries, but my parts don't, like the Hitchhiker container and Mobile Processing Lab. I guess I can add a small battery just to avoid this kind of confusion, since unlike those other parts, mine do act as command parts.

PS There is no normal crash report, so I am not sure where I can get the information regarding the crash.

Please send me your KSP.log (from the install directory) from just after it crashes, and a list of all mods you have installed.

The contract was for eccentric Kquargs around Minmus. I completed the experiment (confirmed in contracts window) and returned to Kerbin. I parachuted the experiment with one set of chutes while the manned command capsule came down separately. DebRefund mod indicated the Experiment arrived safely (2.5 m/s) However, I received not notification that the contract was completed.

Does the Experiment need to arrive with the command module or probe to be credited? Perhaps, because DebRefund recognized it as debris, could that be the problem? Perhaps, I need to have the vessel camera focus on the experiment when it's under the chutes.

I would not be surprised if DebRefund is not compatible with this mod. It sounds like it isn't triggering the "ship recovered" hook I use, when it recovers the vessel. I'll take a look, but I can't guarantee compatibility with all mods.

[Apollo13]

I would not be surprised if DebRefund is not compatible with this mod. It sounds like it isn't triggering the "ship recovered" hook I use, when it recovers the vessel. I'll take a look, but I can't guarantee compatibility with all mods.

Good enough. thanks for checking. Even if it cannot be made compatible, ALT-F12 may have to be my workaround for successful completion. I'll post this, including your "ship recovered" hook info in the DebRefund thread.

[forsaken1111]

If it helps any I can tell you that stagerecovery has worked fine in the past for me when recovering experiments for contracts. Perhaps they use different methods?

I just drop my experiment pods back into the atmosphere with parachutes attached.

Edited August 25, 2014 by forsaken1111

[Apollo13]

If it helps any I can tell you that stagerecovery has worked fine in the past for me when recovering experiments for contracts. Perhaps they use different methods?

I'll look at StageRecovery to replace DebRefund. Thanks.

[magico13]

I'll look at StageRecovery to replace DebRefund. Thanks.

Unless ethernet has tied into StageRecovery's API it will likely have the same issue. I had considered firing that event manually, but that would limit my options, which I don't really like. The API is easy enough to tie into and doesn't require a hard dependency (it works similar to Toolbar's API) and provides some additional information about the recovery.

@Ethernet. If you choose to tie into StageRecovery's API, let me know. If you think it needs any changes, I'm all ears.

Edit: if it does work then it's probably because I recover the science 100% but DebRefund only does 95%.

Edited August 26, 2014 by magico13

[malkuth]

If it helps any I can tell you that stagerecovery has worked fine in the past for me when recovering experiments for contracts. Perhaps they use different methods?

I just drop my experiment pods back into the atmosphere with parachutes attached.

StageRecovery does not change anything and only looks for certain code to be run, in this case for the PartDestroy. Once that happens then stageRecovery kicks in.

In not sure how DebRefunds works though. Always figured it used the same method, but guess not. StageRecovery uses the same method I developed for the Original Mission Controller Mod Before we had an Economy in .24.

[Brucey]

Trying to clean up my mods....

Not sure if this is related to Station Science. But I'm getting the following two lines in my debug log frequently.

[log]: StnSciScenario started
[Exception]: TypeLoadException: Could not load type 'CrewRoster' from assembly 'Assembly-CSharp, Version=1.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'.

What makes me think it might be from Station Science is that the exception always seems to follow the "StnSciScenario started"

EDIT: Okay I tried after removing Station Science and it still happens so nevermind.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Brucey
update

[sreinmann]

First, a comment regarding TAC; I am using TAC and not running into any issues with my gathering science. Check the pic of my station on Page 48 and you'll note that I sent up 8 battery cells at the base of my solar trusses to keep my station happily powered throughout its Kerbin Orbit. No worries.

Second, a question regarding contracts on other celestial bodies? Is it necessary to build another whole station around mun and minmus (for instance) to complete contracts for those locations? Or can I just move my Kerbin station? Assuming that I have enough time on my contract term to complete the science requirements - and max the basic science available for low and high orbits - of course. I'm hoping I can move it, since the science mode (part that does the experiment) is the required component that needs to be newly launched.

[russiannuke]

With regard to what you're saying, nothing's really changed. It's just that instead of sticking four or five duplicates of an experiment pod on a craft to get the full Science from that experiment, you only need to use one. The "reusability" the previous versions had was essentially meaningless; a matter of more clicking, not more flying.

Once Contract support is in, you'll probably want to build more stations in various places, instead of just building one and moving it around. You'll get contracts to take specific pods to specific places, and if you happen to already have a station there, that contract will be much easier.

So I'm getting 100t station with 4 kerbals in orbit for ~500 science, and then it just becomes space debris? I'm playing with life support and have a bunch of other contracts that pop up all the time instead of Station Science(not to mention it has to be at the planet/moon where the station is), I didn't even realize experiments are not repeatable till I got 0 science when I finalized something. I'd have to move the whole station anyway since it's of no use when I complete everything. Wouldn't decaying number of science I get for future experiments make sense?

[ethernet]

First, a comment regarding TAC; I am using TAC and not running into any issues with my gathering science. Check the pic of my station on Page 48 and you'll note that I sent up 8 battery cells at the base of my solar trusses to keep my station happily powered throughout its Kerbin Orbit. No worries.

Second, a question regarding contracts on other celestial bodies? Is it necessary to build another whole station around mun and minmus (for instance) to complete contracts for those locations? Or can I just move my Kerbin station? Assuming that I have enough time on my contract term to complete the science requirements - and max the basic science available for low and high orbits - of course. I'm hoping I can move it, since the science mode (part that does the experiment) is the required component that needs to be newly launched.

It is not necessary to build another station. You can move it wherever you want for your new contracts.

So I'm getting 100t station with 4 kerbals in orbit for ~500 science, and then it just becomes space debris? I'm playing with life support and have a bunch of other contracts that pop up all the time instead of Station Science(not to mention it has to be at the planet/moon where the station is), I didn't even realize experiments are not repeatable till I got 0 science when I finalized something. I'd have to move the whole station anyway since it's of no use when I complete everything. Wouldn't decaying number of science I get for future experiments make sense?

The "decaying number for repeats" mechanic, that the stock game uses, doesn't really make sense. All it involves is sending up more experiment pods at once, and clicking more. It doesn't meaningfully add gameplay. Whereas for the contracts, you have to send up a fresh pod for each one. That means flying actual additional missions.

If you want more Station Science contracts, just reject the ones you don't want. New ones get populated immediately.

[Brucey]

It is not necessary to build another station. You can move it wherever you want for your new contracts.

.

That's good news. . Since I edited the parts config in my game to make the science lab cost $500000. I wanted to make it so there's a financial motivation to relocate existing labs, rather then sending up new ones.

[sreinmann]

Great news, thanks for all your time supporting this excellent mod Ethernet!

[russiannuke]

It is not necessary to build another station. You can move it wherever you want for your new contracts.

The "decaying number for repeats" mechanic, that the stock game uses, doesn't really make sense. All it involves is sending up more experiment pods at once, and clicking more. It doesn't meaningfully add gameplay. Whereas for the contracts, you have to send up a fresh pod for each one. That means flying actual additional missions.

If you want more Station Science contracts, just reject the ones you don't want. New ones get populated immediately.

I'm saying what's the point of an experiment that gives 0 science? I'll just leave the zoo-bay flying around for some science overtime.

[ethernet]

I'm saying what's the point of an experiment that gives 0 science? I'll just leave the zoo-bay flying around for some science overtime.

The point is the contracts you'll keep getting forever that give Science and Funds.

The Zoology Bay's trickle science asymptotically caps at 300 (for LKO), and costs Kibbal that has mass. At a certain point, contracts will be much better for Science per up-mass.

Edited August 28, 2014 by ethernet

[micha]

The "decaying number for repeats" mechanic, that the stock game uses, doesn't really make sense.

From a science perspective it does make sense - is important to be able to reproduce an experiment. Verifying previously obtained results is an essential part of science and while a repeat will never yield the same benefits as the original experiment it does add a valuable data point.

But it's your (rather excellent, if I may add) mod so your rules

[ethernet]

From a science perspective it does make sense - is important to be able to reproduce an experiment. Verifying previously obtained results is an essential part of science and while a repeat will never yield the same benefits as the original experiment it does add a valuable data point.

The repeatability I have with contracts makes sense from this perspective. Each contract represents a new experiment of the same type (so same part) that builds on the ones you've already completed and returned (so requires a newly launched pod).

What the stock game's experiment repeatability does, where you do the same exact experiment, at the same time, in the same exact location, with exact duplicates of the experiment equipment, doesn't make sense. If there are scientific gains to be made from doing such trivial repetitions, why aren't those repetitions just part of "the experiment" to begin with? Why make the player slap on a bunch of duplicate parts, and click a bunch, to actually do the experiment properly?

More importantly, in terms of gameplay, the stock game's repeatability adds nothing of value. Just some extra clicking. What I try to do with the contracts is encourage flying more missions to get more science, and even make SSTOs more useful, since they make repeat experiments downright profitable in Funds.

Edited August 29, 2014 by ethernet