[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[loreberg]

Is managing shielding state done by DRE? I currently have a problem where Talisar Cargo parts are shielding not only stuff behind it but also themselves so whole vessel is safe. I wonder if I can somehow change that.

And second thing, anyone tried to do something so 6.25m inflatable is pointing prograde on descent? I can't get it stable, it appears to have big drag ang tries to flip retrograde (I guess real part would have slight prograde stabilisation from cone shape as long as it's pointed there when atmosphere appears but it's KSP) al the time. Burned poor Gungun on claw-grab orbit rescue mission.

And about it's cfg file:

reflective = 0.02 // 25% of heat is ignored at correct angle

i get that line refers to folded state, shouldn't heat dissipation (ignoring in that case actually because no ablative shielding) be same on folded state with only shielding size smaller?

[Taki117]

Is managing shielding state done by DRE? I currently have a problem where Talisar Cargo parts are shielding not only stuff behind it but also themselves so whole vessel is safe. I wonder if I can somehow change that.

And second thing, anyone tried to do something so 6.25m inflatable is pointing prograde on descent? I can't get it stable, it appears to have big drag ang tries to flip retrograde (I guess real part would have slight prograde stabilisation from cone shape as long as it's pointed there when atmosphere appears but it's KSP) al the time. Burned poor Gungun on claw-grab orbit rescue mission.

And about it's cfg file:

reflective = 0.02 // 25% of heat is ignored at correct angle

i get that line refers to folded state, shouldn't heat dissipation (ignoring in that case actually because no ablative shielding) be same on folded state with only shielding size smaller?

The issues with the inflatable heat shield is that if you don't have enough mass behind it it's not going to work well. Your best bet is to use an expendable high altitude drouge chute in that type of situation.

[koksny]

Could anyone help me with working out some fix for Laztek Dragon v2 pod? It works fine with heatshield module added in config, however, part attached to top of the command pod (decoupler, nose cone) just heats and explodes on reentry no matter what, like it's not shielded at all. I guess it's because the pod is hollow inside.

Is it possible to fix it by some config edition, or should i change the model somehow? Also there is a lot of convex-mesh issues in log, if i remember correctly. Help?

[GigaG]

Does this mod still implement a g-force limit? And does FAR affect things a lot?

[dzikakulka]

Does this mod still implement a g-force limit? And does FAR affect things a lot?

It makes g-force potentially lethal to crew. Alt-D-R to show config window and enable additional info on vessel rightclick. Above some g-force treshold integral over time is calculated. When it reaches 'a lot' crew has chance to get killed every second. Everything is tweakable in mentioned window.

[NathanKell]

Dobrodav: I think you have the wrong thread...

koreberg: Nope, that's FAR. Regarding the shield, no, reflectivity will be lower in collapsed state since it will end up radiating heat *into* itself rather than outward.

koksny: convexity problems aren't a DRE issue. If you're getting errors from a mesh, talk to the mesh creator. Regarding shielding, I just discovered a longstanding issue with shielding calculation that should make future versions of DRE work better. Expect an update soon.

[koksny]

koksny: convexity problems aren't a DRE issue. If you're getting errors from a mesh, talk to the mesh creator. Regarding shielding, I just discovered a longstanding issue with shielding calculation that should make future versions of DRE work better. Expect an update soon.

What if mesh creator is offline from quite some time, can i fix it somehow myself? For example by editing the mu file in some 3ds max? I'm quite experienced in 3d modelling, just never touched Unity files. Is it some case of just including in .mu file a second, simpler dummy-helper model for physisc calculations? (Or just something like deflector?)

The error from log:

[ERR 19:50:34.013] Actor::updateMassFromShapes: Compute mesh inertia tensor failed for one of the actor's mesh shapes! Please change mesh geometry or supply a tensor manually!

And also it shows in VAB, not in flight. Related?

EDIT: So it looks like Laztek used open mesh collider instead of convex mesh collider. Any quick how-to change it? Or link to related tutorial/wiki?

EDIT2: After lil reasearch i found that .mu files are compiled. Well, so much of Dragon capsule for DRE users.

Edited August 10, 2014 by koksny

[ferram4]

I've been working on a thing for DRE, since it's current heating model is somewhat... approximate would be the polite way to put it. Basically, it's working with the idea that velocity in m/s ~= temperature in K, which sort of works for sections of Earth's atmosphere, once you account for some real gas effects. The problem is it's not appropriate for stupidly high velocities, nor is it appropriate for non-Earth atmospheres, so I've been working on a model that will produce temperature as a function of velocity curves based on the constituent gases of an atmosphere, and then things like energy lost to reactions and changes in specific heats can be modeled. So here's what I've got so far:

Temperature in K vs. Velocity in m/s

These are graphs of temperature due to velocity, assuming that the ambient temperature is 273 K = 0 C. In each case, the blue line is the curve that has been calculated according to the model, while the red line is the T in K = V in m/s rule that DRE has been following so far. Kerbin / Earth's atmosphere is modeled using 0.21 O₂ and 0.79 N₂, Duna / Mars's is modeled using 0.96 CO₂ and 0.04 N₂ (Eve / Venus's atmosphere is very similar, and so is not shown), and Jool / Jupiter's atmosphere is 0.9 H₂ and 0.1 He. Large changes in the slope of the graph indicate the boundaries of regions primarily affected by one or only a few real gas effects (such as dissociation of gases, ionization of monatomic gases, changing specific heats with temperature).

Take note of the huge difference between the new and old models for Jool / Jupiter, because hydrogen and helium are very different from air. Also, note that if somehow you enter Jupiter's atmosphere above ~60 km/s, you're in for a really fun time, since that's about where my model has completely ionized the hydrogen and helium and there's not really any way to absorb more energy short of reacting the atmosphere with the heat shield.

Temperature in K vs. Velocity in m/s

This is a closeup of the range from 0 - 3 km/s, where stock KSP flight tends to occur. The temperatures end up being lower, but that can be easily compensated with lower max temperatures for parts (seriously, 1500 degrees is a little high for pretty much anything that needs structural rigidity).

If anyone's got any data on about what temperatures various elements ionize at (particularly the lighter gases), I'd be happy to hear about it. The upper ends of the graphs are a little bit questionable due to incomplete information on that.

This should end up in a version of DRE soon; so far all it does is calculate the curves in game (these were actually exported from KSP as .csv files), but doesn't use them yet.

Edited August 11, 2014 by ferram4
Added label including units for graphs

[Taki117]

Good God Ferram, that's incredible, I can't wait to see if it gets implemented.

[Damaske]

Ferram, I am confused on your graphs what one is the temp side of the scale and what side is the speed part? I want to think that the bottom is the speed and the left side is the temperature but I don't want to assume that is right and be wrong.

[ferram4]

Temp is the left, velocity is the bottom. It's always Y axis vs. X axis if the label is formatted that way.

[taniwha]

Damaske: some of us were awake when graphing was taught in school (when was that? grade 5?)

[Starwaster]

The error from log:

And also it shows in VAB, not in flight. Related?

EDIT: So it looks like Laztek used open mesh collider instead of convex mesh collider. Any quick how-to change it? Or link to related tutorial/wiki?

EDIT2: After lil reasearch i found that .mu files are compiled. Well, so much of Dragon capsule for DRE users.

in spite of what that error says, it doesn't necessarily indicate a problem with the mesh. Other errors when the game is compiling the part/model can stop the mesh from compiling. Mod errors can do it as I've caused it to happen with coding mistakes myself.

[mecki]

Freeam, this looks great! Wow!

Do we need more inflatable decelerators?

http://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/game_changing_development/HIAD/#.U-hizlZPLJE

[Damaske]

Damaske: some of us were awake when graphing was taught in school (when was that? grade 5?)

This attack on my character/schooling is unjustified, I wanted to be sure I was reading it right. Besides the only stupid question is one that is not asked. As my posting shows I had a question and thus I asked it no reason to assume and be wrong.

Anywho back to the topic, Looks great I've recently downloaded this mod and in my early messing around with Better Than Starting Manned I noticed that the reentry effects are not showing up, there is however a glow on some of the engines. I am going to attempt to re-install DR, and BTSM without the extra mods and see if something was missed. Then slowly add in the mods one by one.

[MartGonzo]

Looks great Ferram, can't wait to try your new heating curves

[taniwha]

I'm sorry, I did not mean that as an attack.

[Damaske]

I'm sorry, I did not mean that as an attack.

Its ok, I am not upset as I may have seemed to be. I may have just misread it at the moment as I just got donw with a 3 hour streaming to twitch. And was slightly frustrated with a mod i was trying out.

[landeTLS]

I've been working on a thing for DRE, since it's current heating model is somewhat... approximate would be the polite way to put it. Basically, it's working with the idea that velocity in m/s ~= temperature in K, which sort of works for sections of Earth's atmosphere, once you account for some real gas effects. The problem is it's not appropriate for stupidly high velocities, nor is it appropriate for non-Earth atmospheres, so I've been working on a model that will produce temperature as a function of velocity curves based on the constituent gases of an atmosphere, and then things like energy lost to reactions and changes in specific heats can be modeled. So here's what I've got so far:

http://i.imgur.com/0pakuED.jpg

Temperature in K vs. Velocity in m/s

These are graphs of temperature due to velocity, assuming that the ambient temperature is 273 K = 0 C. In each case, the blue line is the curve that has been calculated according to the model, while the red line is the T in K = V in m/s rule that DRE has been following so far. Kerbin / Earth's atmosphere is modeled using 0.21 O₂ and 0.79 N₂, Duna / Mars's is modeled using 0.96 CO₂ and 0.04 N₂ (Eve / Venus's atmosphere is very similar, and so is not shown), and Jool / Jupiter's atmosphere is 0.9 H₂ and 0.1 He. Large changes in the slope of the graph indicate the boundaries of regions primarily affected by one or only a few real gas effects (such as dissociation of gases, ionization of monatomic gases, changing specific heats with temperature).

Take note of the huge difference between the new and old models for Jool / Jupiter, because hydrogen and helium are very different from air. Also, note that if somehow you enter Jupiter's atmosphere above ~60 km/s, you're in for a really fun time, since that's about where my model has completely ionized the hydrogen and helium and there's not really any way to absorb more energy short of reacting the atmosphere with the heat shield.

http://i.imgur.com/wbkCVbJ.jpg

Temperature in K vs. Velocity in m/s

This is a closeup of the range from 0 - 3 km/s, where stock KSP flight tends to occur. The temperatures end up being lower, but that can be easily compensated with lower max temperatures for parts (seriously, 1500 degrees is a little high for pretty much anything that needs structural rigidity).

If anyone's got any data on about what temperatures various elements ionize at (particularly the lighter gases), I'd be happy to hear about it. The upper ends of the graphs are a little bit questionable due to incomplete information on that.

This should end up in a version of DRE soon; so far all it does is calculate the curves in game (these were actually exported from KSP as .csv files), but doesn't use them yet.

Looks very sweet. How about atm density? Is that factored in? I would suggest a default gas composition and cfg configurable system since there will be a lot of new planet packs because of kopernicus.

Hope i didnt miss something. I read through the post a bit fast

[astroboy820]

Hi NathanKell,

I started a new sandbox with the intention of sending Kermen to Duna. As I did a travel run and came back into Kerbin's atmosphere, I got about 10g's of force. At what g amount do Kerbals start to die?

Thanks

[Toshogu]

Been using DRE with Ferram for a while now. Just updated everything and for some reason the heatshield "health" is being chewed through amazingly quickly so much so that I have not been able to land with an intact heat shield from even low orbits 80k and entry from 40k 30k 20k and all points inbetween. Is has something changed between the two modules that are causing incompatibilities?

Cause before I'd usually be able to touch down and my heat shield would have a couple bits of health still left. Now it just burns up and I have to rely on the pod's head shield and even that takes a huge health hit

idk.. something has changed.

[Toshogu]

Just to clarify I am using the cfg included. and I guess to use correct terminology. Something has changed between the interaction of FAR and DRE, that the ablative material is being chewed threw at an amazing rate. so much so that I need to double up on heatshield for even simple LKO re-entries.

[NathanKell]

landeTLS: yes to all of that.

astroboy: Kerbals are, right now, treated like humans. That means you can't survive >6G indefinitely, and >30 is quickly fatal, and between that it depends how long and how high the G load. The math is all in the readme and in DeadlyReentry.cfg; suffice it to say that you don't want to be above 10G for more than a minute or two, IIRC.

Toshogu: this sounds like an install problem. Nuke your DeadlyReentry folder, download a fresh copy, extract the folder to GameData. Also make sure you have only one Module Manager dll anywhere in GameData (search for ModuleManager* )

[ferram4]

@landeTLS: This is slightly relevant to my techincal answer: those are the temperatures of the gas behind the shock; the amount of heat (and subsequent temperature) of whatever spacecraft is creating the shock will be dependent on air density. So, no density isn't factored into those temperature curves, but yes it is factored into how those temperature curves affect the temperature of your slowly toasting probe.

There are three default configs set up for rocky un-oxygenated, rocky oxygenated, and gas giant atmospheres. The first two are distinguished by whether the atmosphere has oxygen in it (duh), but the last one is differentiated by the radius of the planet; the cutoff can also be set in the config for differences between RSS, Kerbin x6.4, stock KSP, etc.

Hope that answers everything.

[Toshogu]

... so far looks good. gonna ramp up the modifiers to my normal 1.12 and see what happens.