[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[Starwaster]

7 minutes ago, Jognt said:

That depends on whether someone comes up with a graphical pyrotechnics mod.. Can you imagine a Kerbin with a burning atmosphere?

How about 1000% over Eve  

[Jognt]

1 minute ago, Starwaster said:

How about 1000% over Eve  

I can't help but think about how that fits in with the "Men are from Duna, women from Eve" line. So much fire!

[Atlessa]

4 hours ago, Jognt said:

I'm curious what the "@Atlessa Approved" slider % is going to be

Be scared.  Be very, very scared. 

Edit:  I just successfully reentered my spaceplane with the slider at 175%. It was spotty (my air intakes were flaming at times), but I made it down without losing any parts.  I, personally, would say that this value is a soft cap for playability in stock sized systems.

But of course, one could always use retrorockets to slow down when it gets too hot, making higher settings technically possible, just really hard to pull off.

Edit2: Airbrakes... hmm... Ablative airbrakes, rated for LKO reentry...  How much ablator would they need?
(Please tell me ablator has a noticeable mass and cost associated with it... ?)

Edited June 7, 2019 by Atlessa

[Starwaster]

10 hours ago, Atlessa said:

(Please tell me ablator has a noticeable mass and cost associated with it... ?)

The heat shield code requires that there be an associated resource with thermal mass so it has to have both mass and a specific heat value.

[Atlessa]

On 6/7/2019 at 12:28 AM, Jognt said:

I'm curious what the "@Atlessa Approved" slider % is going to be

After some rigorous testing, I'm now playing my career with 148% heat scale.

Why not 150?  Because the slider is a bit fiddly* and want to snap to 148 or 145.  *shrug*

@Starwaster I think having the slider range from 50 to 200% would be fine for the vast majority of users, with maybe a cfg setting to unlock a larger range for those who want it?

[Jognt]

5 hours ago, Atlessa said:

After some rigorous testing, I'm now playing my career with 148% heat scale.

Why not 150?  Because the slider is a bit fiddly* and want to snap to 148 or 145.  *shrug*

@Starwaster I think having the slider range from 50 to 200% would be fine for the vast majority of users, with maybe a cfg setting to unlock a larger range for those who want it?

Just curious, what planet scale are you playing with and did you test with interplanetary reentries? :p

With regards to the DR mod, is it possible to hide those PAW entries it adds? Or are they there for a useful reason that is integral to the mod? I'm trying to cut down on visual clutter. (my brain nullrefs from having too much thrown at it)

[Starwaster]

14 hours ago, Jognt said:

Just curious, what planet scale are you playing with and did you test with interplanetary reentries? :p

With regards to the DR mod, is it possible to hide those PAW entries it adds? Or are they there for a useful reason that is integral to the mod? I'm trying to cut down on visual clutter. (my brain nullrefs from having too much thrown at it)

Most (all but two lines) Deadly Reentry PAW info is only visible when physics thermal debugging is turned on so if you turn that back off, the DR stuff will go away too. And it serves the same purpose as the rest of the thermal physics info. 

The aforementioned two lines that are visible without debugging turned on are there to remind the player of temperature limits that are lower than what the part says in the VAB. (usually lower)

FYI, scaled up planets are actually usually easier for a given velocity due to the fact that stock KSP scales up reentry heating to compensate for the low stock reentry speeds.

[Jognt]

10 hours ago, Starwaster said:

The aforementioned two lines that are visible without debugging turned on are there to remind the player of temperature limits that are lower than what the part says in the VAB. (usually lower)

FYI, scaled up planets are actually usually easier for a given velocity due to the fact that stock KSP scales up reentry heating to compensate for the low stock reentry speeds.

Yes, those remaining two lines are the ones I mean. I know this probably sounds silly, but since they’re not static (they change) they keep distracting me. 

I noticed that a recent patch added the ability to ‘fold’ textual PAW entries, is that something I can add to these entries via CFG?

I mean, I’ll notice the heat limit when stuff blows up, so while it’s appreciated that I can see them, I really don’t need to see them all the time <_<.

re: planet scaling, good to know! Thanks     

ps. I have adhd+asperger so that could explain why a mere 2 lines bugs me so much.

[Starwaster]

@Jognt no a simple config change wouldn’t be enough, it would need some sort of support in the plugins code. We’ll see. 

[Jognt]

6 hours ago, Starwaster said:

@Jognt no a simple config change wouldn’t be enough, it would need some sort of support in the plugins code. We’ll see. 

Ah bummer. Thanks for the reply  

[thekiaman]

Hi and thank you for the great mod. Is there anyway though to just add the sound and effects of this mod without the actual heating aspect?

[Starwaster]

23 hours ago, thekiaman said:

Hi and thank you for the great mod. Is there anyway though to just add the sound and effects of this mod without the actual heating aspect?

I'm really not sure how to answer this... the actual heating takes place in the stock KSP code since about KSP 1.0

The sound and effects are limited to metal being wrenched and rent asunder by high G forces.... or the visual appearance of things catching fire and burning (which needs that heating aspect you mentioned)

Oh and screaming. Kerbals screaming if you send them out of their ship during reentry.

The config files also do some specific temperature limit rebalancing so that things don't all have the melting point of tungsten. I suppose you could delete those. Except that then when the plugin runs it will put it all back on the chopping block and will coldly and uncaringly slash all your parts until they have the sturdiness of aluminum sheeting. And you can't delete the plugin or you will lose those sound effects.

So.... no. You can't.

[thekiaman]

1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

I'm really not sure how to answer this... the actual heating takes place in the stock KSP code since about KSP 1.0

The sound and effects are limited to metal being wrenched and rent asunder by high G forces.... or the visual appearance of things catching fire and burning (which needs that heating aspect you mentioned)

Oh and screaming. Kerbals screaming if you send them out of their ship during reentry.

The config files also do some specific temperature limit rebalancing so that things don't all have the melting point of tungsten. I suppose you could delete those. Except that then when the plugin runs it will put it all back on the chopping block and will coldly and uncaringly slash all your parts until they have the sturdiness of aluminum sheeting. And you can't delete the plugin or you will lose those sound effects.

So.... no. You can't.

Haha alright well thank you.

By heating I just meant not changing the value of parts heating but keeping the visual and sound effects just for some extra re-entry particle effects (I know that's a different mod, I just liked the sounds and visuals). You already answered it though.

[Jognt]

1 hour ago, thekiaman said:

Haha alright well thank you.

By heating I just meant not changing the value of parts heating but keeping the visual and sound effects just for some extra re-entry particle effects (I know that's a different mod, I just liked the sounds and visuals). You already answered it though.

Wouldn’t it be kinda what you mean if you use Deadly Reentry with ~50% heating? 

[Starwaster]

2 hours ago, Jognt said:

Wouldn’t it be kinda what you mean if you use Deadly Reentry with ~50% heating? 

Oh gawd just the thought of that makes me want to cap the minimum at 100%  

[Atlessa]

On 6/20/2019 at 3:18 PM, Jognt said:

Just curious, what planet scale are you playing with and did you test with interplanetary reentries? :p

 

I only tested Stock scale since there was an issue with Kopernicus not wanting to load, and I wasn't in the mood to troubleshoot.

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, Atlessa said:

 

I only tested Stock scale since there was an issue with Kopernicus not wanting to load, and I wasn't in the mood to troubleshoot.

If it's KSP 1.7.2 then Kopernicus will not load. It is version locked. EXTREMELY version locked. Major, minor and revision all have to match or it will not load. Have to wait until he releases an update for it.

[Atlessa]

So I just 'bellyflopped' a Spaceplane into Kerbin from 350km (by -150km according to KER) at 147% and everything was fine.

Which again leads me to ask: What kinds of reentrie trajectory do ppl normally fly with capsules???

 

[Jognt]

40 minutes ago, Atlessa said:

So I just 'bellyflopped' a Spaceplane into Kerbin from 350km (by -150km according to KER) at 147% and everything was fine.

Which again leads me to ask: What kinds of reentrie trajectory do ppl normally fly with capsules???

 

Rocketology uninstalled DR from his JSNQ game because his capsules wouldn't survive reentry from LKO even with a heatshield. Admittedly that's 2.7x scale, and while I can vouch for his design skills I can't vouch for his technical skills, but I must admit I'm surprised by your post as it makes it sound rather.. mellow.

[Starwaster]

10 hours ago, Atlessa said:

So I just 'bellyflopped' a Spaceplane into Kerbin from 350km (by -150km according to KER) at 147% and everything was fine.

Which again leads me to ask: What kinds of reentrie trajectory do ppl normally fly with capsules???

 

Usually aim for about 20km Pe (stock)

Edited July 5, 2019 by Starwaster

[Atlessa]

Could it be that the multiplier (147% in my case) doesn't work as intended?

Does no one else fly Spaceplanes with DRE?

 

...  am I just that good?  No... I don't think 350km x -150km @147% should be a valid reentry orbit for anything at this 'difficulty' setting.

[Jognt]

44 minutes ago, Atlessa said:

Could it be that the multiplier (147% in my case) doesn't work as intended?

Does no one else fly Spaceplanes with DRE?

 

...  am I just that good?  No... I don't think 350km x -150km @147% should be a valid reentry orbit for anything at this 'difficulty' setting.

Could you record it and upload it somewhere to get a visual understanding of the situation? Even without DR that would usually spell disaster for whatever I'm reentering..

[Starwaster]

3 hours ago, Atlessa said:

Could it be that the multiplier (147% in my case) doesn't work as intended?

Does no one else fly Spaceplanes with DRE?

 

...  am I just that good?  No... I don't think 350km x -150km @147% should be a valid reentry orbit for anything at this 'difficulty' setting.

It might mean that the space plane parts need tweaking as they are supposed to require a shallow reentry with high altitude braking.

In general, steeper doesn't necessarily mean more total heat. It will mean a higher peak heat loading and higher G forces.

Another thing about that slider: Increasing or decreasing it will increase / decrease the rate of heat and for ablators that means higher or lower ablation rates.... but the way I originally configured the plane parts, the point at which they are in thermal equilibrium isn't going to change at all. Only how long it takes for them to reach that point. So if they're too survivable at steep reentries then I might need to change their max temps, or possibly their emissive/reflective values.... 

[Atlessa]

3 hours ago, Jognt said:

Could you record it and upload it somewhere to get a visual understanding of the situation? Even without DR that would usually spell disaster for whatever I'm reentering..

Can you name a free recording tool that doesn't completely wreck my framerate while reording?  

[Jognt]

24 minutes ago, Atlessa said:

Can you name a free recording tool that doesn't completely wreck my framerate while reording?  

Yes. Both AMD and nVidia have built-in screen recording tools. Unless you're using integrated/old graphics.
For nVidia it's "Shadowplay" or I think they call it "Share" now.. For AMD it's ReLive.

Both of those are hardware based and won't affect your framerate (much?). You can also look at Fraps or Bandicam for software based recording, though they have a watermark on the video for the free versions.

If it's too much trouble then I'm fine with you not making a video though. I'm just interested, so don't jump hoops trying to get that done.