[1.3] Kerbal Joint Reinforcement v3.3.3 7/24/17

[not-a-cylon]

possible bug with your new release.

I have a lander/orbiter docked together (sent up in one piece into orbit) and they are strutted together with b9's non invisible struts. I still haven't undocked them for the first time yet. When I EVA while in orbit and return to the same pod I came from, the ship gets torn apart by phantom forces.

In the meantime, I think I'll stick with 1.7 again- it worked well anyways. Thanks for the awesome mod!

[ferram4]

@not-a-cylon: That sounds less like KJR and more like a stock bug; there's really nothing to be done about it without seriously decreasing the physics timestep, which would make the game horribly laggy. It's an error that can be replicated stock, in KJR, whatever, as long as enough of an initial error is caused things will fly apart.

Lemme guess, it has very heavy masses, radially attached on spars, with a very high symmetry count.

@Duxwing: Go ahead, looks good. I've also cleaned out my inbox.

Edited February 6, 2014 by ferram4

[not-a-cylon]

actually I figured out the problem. it existed between the keyboard and the computer chair

I had a probe core (for unmanned control for positioning the orbiter for rendezvous) clipped under the docking port. KJR did its thing with reinforcing joints so much that it created quite a spectacular implosion centered around on the probe core

reinstalling v2!!! again, thanks for the superior quality of your mods!

[Damaske]

does this still blow apart with clipped parts? as that is kind of killing me from using this mod. It works wonders just that little rapid unplanned part scattering.

[Guest]

Well, the simplest solution is, don't clip parts. Due to how it works, KJR might cause unexpected behavior with parts not placed how they're supposed to be. I don't use clipping at all and it works for me.

[OneRaven]

Bug Report: KJR v2 doesn't like KAS Strut Endpoints. After switching away from a vessel and switching back, all linked strut pairs are broken, with one endpoint of each pair having been sheared off. This bug was not present in the previously installed version (1.7?).

Steps to reproduce:

1. Install KAS and KJR.
   
2. Launch any other ship at least minimum-load-distance away from KSC.
   
3. Load ship KAS Strut Failure Test.
   
4. "Launch" KAS Strut Failure Test.
   
5. EVA attach two strut endpoints.
   
6. Return to Pod.
   
7. Switch away from KAS Strut Failure Test, then switch back.
   
8. (Optional) Observe Structural Failure notice in mission log.
   

Expected result: The struts are still attached to the ship and linked.

Observed result: One endpoint has been broken off, destroying the link.

Attempted resolution: Added "<string name="exemptModuleType3">KASModuleStrut</string>" to config.xml

Result: No change.

Other comments: Returning to Space Center and then selecting the strutted ship through the Tracking Station does not always produce this bug, but switching to another ship in orbit and switching back has a 100% failure rate.

[Damaske]

Well, the simplest solution is, don't clip parts. Due to how it works, KJR might cause unexpected behavior with parts not placed how they're supposed to be. I don't use clipping at all and it works for me.

Sorry not going to happen, I clip parts for looks and for making things as small as possible. Please there are planes that I need a forward stabilizer to help it lift off the runway yet it looks ugly as sin so I clip it onto the body. So to tell me to NOT clip is just like telling me to not breath, its not going to happen.

I'd rather not use this mod and strut the heck out of things rather then have my nice sleek looking craft getting ugly little wingy bits here and there.

[AbeS]

It will get ugly with struts anyways

[ferram4]

@Damaske: Clipped parts don't cause problems unless you manage to make them break off. If you're managing to get things to randomly break off in the latest version, you're doing something very, very wrong.

@OneRaven: Confirmed, and I think I fixed it. KAS creates its joints after KJR goes through its initial physics easing code, which includes multiplying all the joint's breakForces by some ridiculous factor. Then when the physics easing is done it multiplies all the joint breakForces by 1 / ridiculous factor. So that means that KAS joints end up getting their breakForces dropped through the floor because they weren't initially made stronger. I can't delay when KJR acts, so it's going to simply keep track of what joints it did affect and then work from there.

It needs some testing, but v2.1 should be up soon with the fix.

[ANWRocketMan]

I'm not sure why, but I've been seeing fair bit more unstable rockets with this release, to the point that I can't time-warp while on the launchpad to wait for the proper launch window. Although, launch clamps are working better now.

[Damaske]

@Damaske: Clipped parts don't cause problems unless you manage to make them break off. If you're managing to get things to randomly break off in the latest version, you're doing something very, very wrong.

Thank you will start to test latest version!

Also if what I posted seams harsh it don't sugercoat what I want to say, If it offends you please don't take it personal!

[Galane]

Was running 1.7 with this http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/69162-All-assembled-in-orbit-ready-to-go-but-my-computer-isn-t and it held almost everything together.

I'll try it again with 2.0. If it makes it through the apoapsis raising burn then I'll try going to Eve with it. If not, already have plans as detailed there.

Unless for some reason KJR has a problem with these cfg modded stock docking ports? http://pastebin.com/7nTXzUB2 (3 way) http://pastebin.com/3jExA8U6 (2 way). I picked up these on the forum a while back, they've been very useful.

It was a 3 way which came off the top of the 2 man lander can. I've also knocked those off the top of the can with a Kerbal's head, while trying to use a KAS winch mounted above the can's hatch.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Galane

[ANWRocketMan]

@ferram4: I'm having a lot of issues with v2.0. Previously in v1.7 most of my big rockets were very stable with launch clamps and very few KW Rocketry Heavy struts between inerstage fairing adapters. However, since I upgraded the rockets tend to rip themselves apart on the launch pad or wobble uncontrollably leading to very bad launches. This still using Real Solar System v5.5(I found v6.0 pre 1) made it even more unstable with the Earth remake.

Here is a picture of a 61-ton SLS rocket in v1.7:

And a Nova C-8(not perfectly accurate):

*NOTE: It weighs 5,500 metric-tons. Just in addition: this specific one is new built in v2.0. But I built a heavier and bigger rocket in v1.7 that worked better in terms of launch pad stability.

Now, the problem seems to using more than one or two launch clamps. If I use three or more, the rocket rips apart. If I use only 2, the rockets topple over. I I use only 1 it breaks and the whole thing explodes. This didn't happen on any of these rockets using v1.7. Not exactly sure what changed to make this re-appear though...

Edited February 15, 2014 by ANWRocketMan

[ferram4]

That problem is caused by Real Solar System exacerbating a stock KSP bug involving launch clamps that causes them to shift a bit when the rocket loads. There's nothing I can do about it, and it also occurred in v1.7. Actually, I saw it happen worse in v1.7 than in 2.0, so my experience is completely different.

[ANWRocketMan]

Hmm, strange. I reinstalled v1.7 again and the problem was solved. Oh well...

[Galane]

I went back to 1.7 too. With 2.0 the TT-70 radial decouplers won't hold my boosters together, not even with added Quantum struts. The core of the failed one is a ReStock ThunderMax 64 (with one Mainsail on its bottom) with 8 of the extra long Rockomax sized ReStock grey tanks around it, mounted to TT-70's with plenty of standard struts holding the tanks together.

With KJR 2.0 the TT-70s all fail soon as KJR is done with its stabilizing load. With 1.7 they hold on just fine, I used that launcher to lift two different heavy rovers form my Eve ship. Tonight I updated to KJR 2.0 and spent a bunch of time failing to get the launcher to stay together before going back to 1.7.

I should try KJR 2.0 with some of my large boosters that are mainly built of Rockomax 64 tanks, see if they will break on the pad.

[Virtualgenius]

I went back to 1.7 too. With 2.0 the TT-70 radial decouplers won't hold my boosters together, not even with added Quantum struts. The core of the failed one is a ReStock ThunderMax 64 (with one Mainsail on its bottom) with 8 of the extra long Rockomax sized ReStock grey tanks around it, mounted to TT-70's with plenty of standard struts holding the tanks together.

With KJR 2.0 the TT-70s all fail soon as KJR is done with its stabilizing load. With 1.7 they hold on just fine, I used that launcher to lift two different heavy rovers form my Eve ship. Tonight I updated to KJR 2.0 and spent a bunch of time failing to get the launcher to stay together before going back to 1.7.

I should try KJR 2.0 with some of my large boosters that are mainly built of Rockomax 64 tanks, see if they will break on the pad.

Having the exact same issue using the Ares V from bobcats American Pack the TT-70 decoupler wont hang on but is fine in V1.7

[ferram4]

If you have a ton of struts between the rockets that might be the problem, since struts can cause lots of weird structural issues if used to excess. Besides that, this sounds like you're using the small extended radial decoupler (which has the problem of giving parts a very large moment arm to work with) with very large masses on the end; that's a recipe for things breaking. Frankly, I don't know why anyone would use the TT-70s, they're heavier and wobble more than any of the other radial decouplers.

If you really want to "fix" it, go into the config.xml, find the "breaktorqueperMOI" value and add a zero to it. There, you won't ever get any failures due to over-torquing again.

[Galane]

Some times you need to set the boosters out farther in order to have space between them.

[ferram4]

I just tried playing around with TT-70s and they're solid as a rock. You're going to have to post a problem craft (preferably without mods), since I can't seem to reproduce the issue on my own.

[Galane]

Must be the mod parts. Would be nice if someone (who knows their way around a cfg file) could update the KSPX and ReStock files to .23 standard.

I can assemble a test article with no mod parts aside from the ReStock tanks - and make it so it'll hang together with 1.7 and come apart in 2.0. (Basically just strip down my big tanker/booster and pile enough weight on in stock parts.)

[ferram4]

Then do that and I'll look into it. Maybe ReStock has something really weird going on with it.

[Galane]

AARP is appalled proud surprised(?) to introduce a FIY (Finish It Yourself) heavy lift launch vehicle, the TT-70 Test Article. As-is, you may go to space today, but you won't be coming back - alive.

http://pastebin.com/v4tykNax Note that the Skipper and decoupler on the upper stage should be moved in the staging before sending Kerbals on a suicide mission, or modifying the ship for actual use. This is *not* a flying rocket, it is intended as a test of the TT-70 radial decouplers. Do not kill some Kerbals with it then complain to Alan Aerospace Recycling and Packaging.

The only non-stock parts are the big Thundermax 64 tank in the middle, the large adapter on top of it, and the 8 big tanks around the sides.

With KJR 1.7 it stays together. With KJR 2.0 I tested it a few times. The first time all but one TT-70 let go. All subsequent times they all came loose. Then I tried it without any KJR and it was better than with 1.7! Hardly any perceptible downward lurch or bounce at all.

So I launched it and nothing broke loose or fell apart, except what was intended to with staging. (I corrected the staging while in flight.)

I'm tempted to remove the anti-wobbling struts bracing the orange tank and giving it another go without KJR. Without those struts but with KJR 1.7 I had to lock the center engine's gimbal to keep it stable. I'm a bit surprised that a craft I expected to be dependent on KJR doesn't actually need it, at least not with the payload in this craft. I've used this launcher design to lift much heavier payloads to 71KM orbit.

Edit: It's capable of even heavier lifting by sticking a Bigger, Badder, Quad Coupler on the bottom with four Mainsails (12 total) and bracing it to the big tank with quantum struts. Add two rings of 8 5-way RCS blocks to the big tank and it's also surprisingly nimble, able to pivot quickly to align for burns.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Galane

[Durabys]

So. It all works automatically? There is no toolbar for this mod? Just install it and done?

[GavinZac]

So. It all works automatically? There is no toolbar for this mod? Just install it and done?

Yes it "Just Works", or "Just Doesn't Work". Work, or do not work, there is no toolbar.