[1.3] Kerbal Joint Reinforcement v3.3.3 7/24/17

[Zander]

Ohh great thank you for updating the tanks Nathan Kell!

@jrandom

for procedural fairings with kjr are you sure that the adjustable size Interstage fairing base is scaling the attachment strength?

because I don't think it is. :S

it wobbles with even very minor turns.

[jrandom]

@jrandom

for procedural fairings with kjr are you sure that the adjustable size Interstage fairing base is scaling the attachment strength?

because I don't think it is. :S

That looks like the stretchytank to me. Ever since v7 that problem is pretty much gone for me. Make sure you've removed any reference to stretchytanks in the KJR config.xml file because if it's there, simply firing off a decoupler (even the launch clamps) weakens a ton of joints throughout the ship. This is a known bug in KJR and getting rid of that config line helps minimize the damage.

A lot of us (including myself) originally tossed the blame at the interstage part because that's where we always saw the wobble, but without realizing that those interstage parts were always on top of a stretchytank.

Here's a ship I just flew into orbit with an interstage part on top of a v7 stretchytank. Zero wobble, no struts:

Edited December 15, 2013 by jrandom

[Starwaster]

Not possible with the way it works. The current planned fix doesn't stop the movement, it simply makes sure that the joints don't break. So basically it'll just go even further into wacky-waving-arm-flailing-inflatable-tube-rocket before it flies apart. It's more intended to fix the very high forces caused by physics initialization, and adding some type of Kraken-detecting code would also hurt performance a lot.

Besides, the way KJR works is essentially by taunting the Kraken as much as possible and still trying to get away with it. Sometimes, it gets angry and throws a launchpad at you. No big deal.

A launch pad is a helluva thing to get hit in the small of the back with.

[Zander]

That looks like the stretchytank to me. Ever since v7 that problem is pretty much gone for me. Make sure you've removed any reference to stretchytanks in the KJR config.xml file because if it's there, simply firing off a decoupler (even the launch clamps) weakens a ton of joints throughout the ship. This is a known bug in KJR and getting rid of that config line helps minimize the damage.

Wow.. I don't believe it. I just tried removing the launch clamps to humor you so I could say I tried it but I was 100% sure nothing would change. The difference is astounding.. it flies completely straight with no struts at all now. before it wobbled like crazy with over 60 struts. Thank you you have just saved me hours and hours and intense frustration. So if I remove it from the config file will that make it so I can use launch clamps and it will fly straight like it did just now? I'm a little hesitant to touch anything for fear of it going back to being wobbly useless crap. what exactly do I change in the config file?

Once again thanks for your help.

[jrandom]

Wow.. I don't believe it. I just tried removing the launch clamps to humor you so I could say I tried it but I was 100% sure nothing would change. The difference is astounding.. it flies completely straight with no struts at all now. before it wobbled like crazy with over 60 struts. Thank you you have just saved me hours and hours and intense frustration. So if I remove it from the config file will that make it so I can use launch clamps and it will fly straight like it did just now? I'm a little hesitant to touch anything for fear of it going back to being wobbly useless crap. what exactly do I change in the config file?

Once again thanks for your help.

Yep! Here's what's happening: KJR adds joint strengthening to parts on both sides of a decoupler, but it's actually internally "strutting" (or jointing, I guess) every part to every other part, which was not intentional. Makes the rocket super-stable, though... unrealistically so, in fact. But there's another bug! When a radial decoupler is fired, not only do it's extra internal joint connections get removed, all of the parent/children joints get removed, even from parts not directly involved! I first noticed this problem when my rocket was nice and stable until I decoupled my radial SRBs and suddenly the entire rocket became a wet hotdog.

There's a line in the KJR config.xml near the bottom that mentions stretchytanks. Removing that line from the config makes it so the extra joint strengths from decouplers don't pass through a stretchytank to secondary attached parts. This prevents the chain-reaction of joint removal when the decoupler is fired.

At least, that's my understanding of what was happening. You still may need the occasional strut on very large rockets, but this is much closer in line to reality.

[Zander]

Yep! Here's what's happening: KJR adds joint strengthening to parts on both sides of a decoupler, but it's actually internally "strutting" (or jointing, I guess) every part to every other part, which was not intentional. Makes the rocket super-stable, though... unrealistically so, in fact. But there's another bug! When a radial decoupler is fired, not only do it's extra internal joint connections get removed, all of the parent/children joints get removed, even from parts not directly involved! I first noticed this problem when my rocket was nice and stable until I decoupled my radial SRBs and suddenly the entire rocket became a wet hotdog.

There's a line in the KJR config.xml near the bottom that mentions stretchytanks. Removing that line from the config makes it so the extra joint strengths from decouplers don't pass through a stretchytank to secondary attached parts. This prevents the chain-reaction of joint removal when the decoupler is fired.

At least, that's my understanding of what was happening. You still may need the occasional strut on very large rockets, but this is much closer in line to reality.

Thanks, I tried it, its getting a little wobbly but not too bad. But the main problem is other stuff (like my launch tower starts wobbling when I decouple from it) will it be possible to fix this problem?

[jrandom]

Thanks, I tried it, its getting a little wobbly but not too bad. But the main problem is other stuff (like my launch tower starts wobbling when I decouple from it) will it be possible to fix this problem?

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean. I also think there's some remaining bug to do with the launch clamps specifically, but I don't know exactly what, nor if/when a fix will be available.

Anyone else know the specifics?

[Starwaster]

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean. I also think there's some remaining bug to do with the launch clamps specifically, but I don't know exactly what, nor if/when a fix will be available.

Anyone else know the specifics?

I saw a launch tower topple over after I released it last night. KJR was NOT installed on that particular KSP installation. Actually I'm not quite sure which one I was playing. I have a lot for testing. I think the mod list was: Achievements, MechJeb, KWR, KSPX (both parts only), ModularFuels, Stretchy Tanks, Procedural Fairings, RSS, SDHI, Real Chutes, Clouds / Texture Compression.

The only one of those I would even remotely suspect is Real Solar System... maybe the launch towers can't grab onto the ground properly because of some scaling issue.

OR it could be a stock issue.... not discounting that. KJR was not installed however.

[ferram4]

Update to version 1.5, including proper KSP 0.23 compatibility and stabilization on physics load. Also fixes the bug where the Kraken would decide to throw launchpads at the player.

[Commander Zoom]

Who's awesome?

Ferram is awesome.

[Hodo]

Not sure if it is KJR that is having a problem or something else.

Stock parts made a craft, sat on the runway, and the cockpit slid backwards through the fuel tank. It was the Mk1 cockpit, switch to the other cockpit, the one with attachment points on the front and back, mk2 I think. worked till it got to 250m/s then it just exploded. Structural failure between cockpit and fuel tank.

[ferram4]

Try clearing out the entire KJR folder and re-downloading it.

I dunno, that sounds like something that KJR might cause but I've never seen it happen myself; mind posting a picture of this craft?

[Desrtfox]

Not sure if it is KJR that is having a problem or something else.

Stock parts made a craft, sat on the runway, and the cockpit slid backwards through the fuel tank. It was the Mk1 cockpit, switch to the other cockpit, the one with attachment points on the front and back, mk2 I think. worked till it got to 250m/s then it just exploded. Structural failure between cockpit and fuel tank.

Do you run Deadly Reentry? That mod is currently not working and has caused some weird things that sound similar to your issues - I've seen radially mounted parts simply fall off.

[Jim DiGriz]

just had an interesting radial decoupler explosion. had some liquid boosters attached with a stock radial decoupler and a stock strut each, with stock 0.23 and just KJR and FAR loaded as mods, and when i stage separated it kind of blew apart and took a good chunk of my inner stack with it...

[Hodo]

Try clearing out the entire KJR folder and re-downloading it.

I dunno, that sounds like something that KJR might cause but I've never seen it happen myself; mind posting a picture of this craft?

ok will do...

Only one I have right now, had a bad game crash after that shot... the screen went dark except the UI. Finding that RT2 is having a horrible time with .23.

Do you run Deadly Reentry? That mod is currently not working and has caused some weird things that sound similar to your issues - I've seen radially mounted parts simply fall off.

Yeah I run DRE, it is possible this could be the cause, but the drag readings are the same as before.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Hodo
Added two more pics.

[Jim DiGriz]

just had an interesting radial decoupler explosion. had some liquid boosters attached with a stock radial decoupler and a stock strut each, with stock 0.23 and just KJR and FAR loaded as mods, and when i stage separated it kind of blew apart and took a good chunk of my inner stack with it...

this went boom when i triggered the radial decouplers:

[Jim DiGriz]

okay next flight the radial decouplers were fine but when i got rid of the main stack it exploded.

EDIT: then manually triggering the top radial decouplers one of them blew up.

gonna try removing FAR + KJR and see if it goes away...

Edited December 17, 2013 by Jim DiGriz

[ferram4]

@Hodo: KER isn't compatible with KSP 0.23 yet; DRE certainly isn't yet.

@Jim DiGriz: I just launched the entire thing to orbit with no problems using FAR + KJR. Don't tell me your doing physics warp under thrust.

[Jim DiGriz]

@Hodo: KER isn't compatible with KSP 0.23 yet; DRE certainly isn't yet.

@Jim DiGriz: I just launched the entire thing to orbit with no problems using FAR + KJR. Don't tell me your doing physics warp under thrust.

nope. and i took out FAR + KJR and last flight it behaved fine.

the last exploding decoupler i had was not under any warp, not under any thrust. i had the upper staging wrong, so i was manually clicking on one of the decouplers on the pod and it exploded.

i guess i'll have to see if i can figure out how to make a movie and get the mods reloaded...

[Jim DiGriz]

here's my actual ship file in case its some weird edge condition in the construction: https://gist.github.com/8015022

EDIT: video of the latest mishap has been captured -- encoding, editing it down, uploading, reencoding will take awhile...

Edited December 18, 2013 by Jim DiGriz

[Hodo]

@Hodo: KER isn't compatible with KSP 0.23 yet; DRE certainly isn't yet.

@Jim DiGriz: I just launched the entire thing to orbit with no problems using FAR + KJR. Don't tell me your doing physics warp under thrust.

Found a work around for KER, so that isn't a problem. I think it is definitely DRE.

[NathanKell]

Grab arsenic87's fix from the last page of the DRE thread, until I get back on desktop and upload a proper v4.1

[Hodo]

Grab arsenic87's fix from the last page of the DRE thread, until I get back on desktop and upload a proper v4.1

Got it, thanks. Now just waiting on RT2 and everything will be kosher.

[longhornchris]

I've got the exploding decoupler problem too. I think its related to the decoupler force because if i decouple a partially full stage it behaves fine but the stage goes flying off way faster than it did in .22. A mostly empty stage flies away much faster.

If I decouple the same stage empty then it explodes and takes part of my upper stage with it.

I can work around for now but its annoying.

Edited December 18, 2013 by longhornchris

[RabidMonkey]

I've got the exploding decoupler problem too. I think its related to the decoupler force because if i decouple a partially full stage it behaves fine but the stage goes flying off way faster than it did in .22. A mostly empty stage flies away much faster.

If I decouple the same stage empty then it explodes and takes part of my upper stage with it.

I can work around for now but its annoying.

Chalk up another person seeing this behavior. For empty stages, it's like they gain a massive amount of velocity toward the decoupler - enough to take out truss segments.