[PLUGIN+PARTS][0.23] SCANsat terrain mapping

[damny]

The bug where you lose the UI when switching vessels in map view seems to be that my render callback gets removed, but the UI thinks it's still there. It'll be fixed in the next build.

[KhaosCorp]

Very close in fact, the inclinations listed in that thread are usually no more than 2deg off whats ideal for Kethane scanners, pointless from a gameplay standpoint really. The only big deviation from those numbers where high orbits for doing fast timewarp scans. ISA cant scan at faster than x50 warp, and I think the author of that thread seemed to have kept that in mind when doing the maths.

From a gameplay standpoint, for scanning in real time, or up to x50warp, those numbers will do just fine.

Figuring it out down to a tenth of a degree and within 5km is just something I was doing for fun lol.

[a__gun]

Someone did all the hard work already on what orbits are best for mapping the planets. I haven't tested them with SCANsat but I assume it should still work.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/27999-ISA-Mapsat-Ideal-and-Non-Ideal-Altitudes

The issue I had with applying those numbers to anything other than MapSat was the swath width - it's all been calculated according to the principle of a higher orbit = a bigger width, whereas things like kethane scan only what is immediately below them regardless of how high you are.

[Vlorp]

Awesome have been looking for a mapsat successor, for an alpha this is pretty stable. Have been using this for a few hours no crashes so far.

So great work keep it up i'm very interested to see what will be in the future releases.

P.s. please don't wait to long before making this a release as this is pretty complete/stable as is.

[KhaosCorp]

The issue I had with applying those numbers to anything other than MapSat was the swath width - it's all been calculated according to the principle of a higher orbit = a bigger width, whereas things like kethane scan only what is immediately below them regardless of how high you are.

True, but higher orbits are capable of higher time warps...something that comes into play with Kethane scanners.

deleted my inbox btw =P

[MOARdV]

If I am reading correctly, you are saving map scan data in a string in the persistence file, correct? The PNGs that are saved to the subdirectory under the plugin are just exported images, so they could be safely deleted without loss of in-game data (and they can be reconstructed later)? Reason I ask, leaving those images in GameData means that they'll be loaded as assets next time the game starts. Just from playing around over Kerbin, I now have 4x ~1 megatexel images in there. Due to the quirks with Unity loading PNG images, those will consume over 16 megabytes just for Kerbin. If it's safe to delete them, and it's possible to add a hook to do so, would you consider adding a checkbox like "Remove exported maps when I quit" (meaning, when the user quits the game, or the persistence file is saved, or whatever event can be hooked, those images are purged)?

[damny]

If I am reading correctly, you are saving map scan data in a string in the persistence file, correct? The PNGs that are saved to the subdirectory under the plugin are just exported images, so they could be safely deleted without loss of in-game data (and they can be reconstructed later)?

Yes, the PNGs are just exported images. They are never used in game.

Reason I ask, leaving those images in GameData means that they'll be loaded as assets next time the game starts.

Are you sure? I don't see that happen. I see images getting loaded when I put them in one of the part directories, but not when they're in PluginData.

I do want to make export configurable, though.

[a__gun]

I have heard that Unity loads EVERYTHING in the gamedata folder regardless of wether its used but don't know for sure.

One thing I am pretty sure of is that the forum rules ban you from posting anything that modifies data outside the gamedata directory, so I would assume this means you wouldn't be able to add an option to save elsewhere which kinda sucks

[Nertea]

That's already the case, but I'll admit my experience in this field is spotty at best.

Currently, the SAR sensor is what detects biomes and anomalies. My rationale is that biomes aren't actually biomes, but more like different types of terrain, e.g. grassland vs. sand, or on Mun it's simply different craters that only differ in which shade of grey they are. When I worked with SAR data in the past, that's almost exactly what we used it for (along with buildings and vehicles, e.g. identify a tank model by its shape on a SAR image).

But that's about all I have, so I'm definitely interested in a better explanation of how these sensors could work. Maybe SAR would be better for the high res altimetry sensor, and then multispectral for biomes? There's no visible band sensor yet.

Yeah it's less obvious with other planets. With the Earth, at least, "biome" detection is quite easy with a relatively simple multispectral instrument, as biomes are defined quite well by their vegetation and thus their NIR/visible properties. That's why I suggested that that. Thinking of other planets... well, if you expand multispectral (<15 bands) to hyperspectral (up to 100s of bands), you can do geological analysis quite well, so if you wanted some logic to extend that to the Mun, it could work.

I'd say SAR is good for altimetry indeed, no doubt about that. If you had some way of making high res and slow res sensors different, you could try splitting SAR into high-altitude capable, low to high res, and add LiDaR (essentially large area laser ranging) as a low-altitude only, super-fine resolution ability.

Visible would just be true colour, I suppose.

[damny]

I have heard that Unity loads EVERYTHING in the gamedata folder regardless of wether its used but don't know for sure.

I put a bunch of very large images in a part directory and my KSP used 2.7 GB of RAM. Then I moved them to the PluginData directory where exported maps are stored and after a restart, KSP only used 1 GB.

[DMagic]

I put a bunch of very large images in a part directory and my KSP used 2.7 GB of RAM. Then I moved them to the PluginData directory where exported maps are stored and after a restart, KSP only used 1 GB.

I get the same. I loaded KSP with a bunch of maps from Kerbin and Moho (that's right, I was bored and confirmed that the plugin does, in fact, work for Moho too) and got about 1010MB of RAM used, the same amount used without anything in the folder map image folder.

[MOARdV]

I put a bunch of very large images in a part directory and my KSP used 2.7 GB of RAM. Then I moved them to the PluginData directory where exported maps are stored and after a restart, KSP only used 1 GB.

That's a relief. Maybe that got fixed after 0.21 or something. That was the main reason I had to stop using the newer ISA mapping. It loaded hundreds of megs of saved maps, so there was little memory left for anything else.

[Majiir]

One thing I am pretty sure of is that the forum rules ban you from posting anything that modifies data outside the gamedata directory, so I would assume this means you wouldn't be able to add an option to save elsewhere which kinda sucks

You just can't be sneaky about it. As long as it's obvious to the user where and what you're saving, there are no problems. Just don't act like malware and you'll be fine.

[sam445]

HO. MY. GOD. 0.0

A worthy replacer of the old mapping tool. For what is of passive science generation whilst scanning, you can ask Fractal_UK, he did this in his Interstellar mod.

[kahlzun]

Nice! A viable challenger to Mapsat!

With regards to optimal orbits: isnt it better to have a retrograde orbit when scanning (ie: 95 or so) so that you leverage the rotation of the planet more?

[BananaDealer]

Nice! A viable challenger to Mapsat!

With regards to optimal orbits: isnt it better to have a retrograde orbit when scanning (ie: 95 or so) so that you leverage the rotation of the planet more?

I'd guess so...

Edited October 30, 2013 by BananaDealer

[brienne]

At last a mapping mod^^

Congratulations!

[KhaosCorp]

Nice! A viable challenger to Mapsat!

With regards to optimal orbits: isnt it better to have a retrograde orbit when scanning (ie: 95 or so) so that you leverage the rotation of the planet more?

As far as pure time yes its better...but take into account most scanning equipment also requires power. So, again depending on the body, a +90 orbit can put ya back in the shadows. Also it depends on if you plan on scanning in realtime or with warp. Typical realtime scans you wanna do at low altitudes, making dark periods due to inclination more common.

[Mokmo]

10 pages of comments in little under 36 hours, i think you're doing something right.

I like this. I didn't touch ISA much because it was buggy and unmaintained by the time i tried it. This might be the replacement. Biome map is nice too

[Joel Dryden]

Don't know if this is a dumb idea for generating "Science" by doing this, but you could just have a base 1% of coverage = 1Science, based on the body, have a different multiplier? Kerbin 1, Mun 2, etc? Oh maybe not so basic, don't even know if this can be done.

Or like I've just noticed others suggested, per set of %10 or something?

Like being able to see biomes. Also, working on a Polar view mode, or would that be to annoying to throw in as well?

Also, incredibly keen to see this working for Career mode, would add so much.

Now all we need is a proper weather system to map out with these sats (Maybe eventually if it's implemented) and radiation belts and all will be sweet, on the front of scanning things anywho.

Also, does the Sat actually generate images, or is the line over which it's travelled revealed? Just wondering if you could also with a sat show the over all course something has travelled or something, might be a way to be able to look back at exactly what one did to fix it. Although that's off subject from terrain scanning, but seems like a job some doo hicky on a sat could do. Or a flight recording system.

[DigitalProeliator]

Good God 10 pages already? Ok played around for a few hours and got a few suggestions. Mostly GUI tweaks.

Rendering lines on the big map like the small one when re-rendering.

Maybe change text colors as white on gray can sometimes be hard to read

Close option for zoom window

Move the zoom level ID to the zoom box. I played for 3 hours before realizing it was on the big map...

Things I think are a bit harder to do but would be nice to have.

Way to minimize map when not needed. (Like Kethane or the Notepad plugin)

Scroll option in zoom window (so you don't need to re-zoom into an area when moving over a bit)

Anomaly circle show up in the zoom window (Useful when trying to find a landing site next to one)

True Color map

Nixed request

Ground track lines (Damn your fast lol)

@ KhaosCorp That was nice? Damn I almost want to see how you would be if you was trying to rip someone to shreds. It would be amusing I bet.

[H4mst0R]

Don't know if this is a dumb idea for generating "Science" by doing this, but you could just have a base 1% of coverage = 1Science, based on the body, have a different multiplier? Kerbin 1, Mun 2, etc? Oh maybe not so basic, don't even know if this can be done.

Or like I've just noticed others suggested, per set of %10 or something?

Like being able to see biomes. Also, working on a Polar view mode, or would that be to annoying to throw in as well?

Also, incredibly keen to see this working for Career mode, would add so much.

Now all we need is a proper weather system to map out with these sats (Maybe eventually if it's implemented) and radiation belts and all will be sweet, on the front of scanning things anywho.

Also, does the Sat actually generate images, or is the line over which it's travelled revealed? Just wondering if you could also with a sat show the over all course something has travelled or something, might be a way to be able to look back at exactly what one did to fix it. Although that's off subject from terrain scanning, but seems like a job some doo hicky on a sat could do. Or a flight recording system.

The sat really generates images. I've read through his code and it's just beautiful / genius. Everything comes from Unity. So if Squad would implement another Planet, this plugin would be able to deliver full details (terrain, biome, anomalies, etc.) immediately.

I like your idea for creating science based on the percentage of the map completition. And it could be done quite easy compared to creating a mapping system like this (low memory usage, functionality, scan types, etc.). Damny said, that he is more into creating more features than eliminating bugs, so the chances are not too bad.

[Stone Blue]

SO I tried this out last night.....AWWWEEESSSSOOMMMEEE!!!

I know this is still a WIP, but I was gonna post a few things, but DigitalProeliator nailed most of them.

One small thing I would add, if you havent already caught it yet, is on the small scanning window, especially in warp, as the lat/lon info changes character lengths, it causes the right side of the window to resize, "flicker", if you will...A little distracting to say the least.

Also, I first launched into a 45° inc orbit....I tried a few passes at about 80K, then increased to around 125K, 250K, then 400K....Also increased the inc to about 60°, then about 80°, then close to 90°....with warp at 10,000 times, I left it to finish up the little bit of map it had left to do...Came back, and there were still quite afew small pixels scattered all over on the Altimetry map.....So I used up the last of my sat's fuel to drop back down to under an 80K orbit, and it seemed to help a little, but still quite a few pixels left...

ANyway, suggestions of best orbits for best coverage? And are there limits to what orbits will/will not work?...For each type of scanner, too?

Thanx again for pulling off a great mod, in quite a short time, I must say!!...

Edited October 31, 2013 by Stone Blue

[Ralathon]

ANyway, suggestions of best orbits for best coverage? And are there limits to what orbits will/will not work?...For each type of scanner, too?

Thanx again for pulling off a great mod, in quite a short time, I must say!!...

I don't have the math to back this up, but my instinct tells me the best inclination is 90 minus half the angle of the scanner you're using.

As for period, it should be some irrational fraction of the parent orbit. I suggest the golden ratio or some fraction thereof. So for Kerbin you're looking at a period of 3.708 hours. Or some fraction of that of course.

The reason for the irrational fraction is so it never passes over the same land. As explained in

.

[OrtwinS]

I see requests and notes being repeated (as is to be expected after a first beta release).

Maybe putting a 'planned features' list (sorted on priority) in the first post will reduce/deter repeated requests.

Of course people can still comment "I'm looking forward to feature X most!". But it may prevent people reinventing the same thing over and over .

10 pages of comments in little under 36 hours, i think you're doing something right.

-snip-

And there were 5 pages over night as well .

Just shows how much demand there is for an up-to-date mapping plugin.